I would love a NPC Helmsman

Lets just say it is bad gameplay but AP is no gameplay, besides, don't do it if you don't like it, easy.

Oh, and that's not all there is to do, especially if you use neutron stars.

It's worse. It's anti-gameplay. It takes the thing I do for fun and turns it into a literal chore.

Neutron stars? Great, so I get to do something else for the 10 jumps or so out of the 500ish it takes to get to Colonia from the bubble. Unless you mean the bit where I painstakingly plot each jump by hand, which while admittedly more involved, is about as fun and engaging as doing my taxes.

Let's put some numbers here. An unengineered AspX fit for best possible range will take a little under 12 hours of real time to jump to Colonia (around 20Kly). 10 hours of that time is spent doing literally nothing - enforced waiting for the FSD to charge, the actual jump, and the cooldown, The remaining 2ish hours is time spent scooping and hitting J.
 
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Jex =TE=

Banned
There isn’t any depth to how I play the game? I would absolutely love to argue that point against you. Unfortunately I can’t really come up with a compelling counterargument due to how anemic exploration mechanics truly are, lol.

Ah frack it, give me an autopilot too. Then at least I can pay more attention to the Netflix shows I watch while I explore!!!

No, I said to the game play you described - that has no depth. Unless that's all you do?
 
So are you ok with the 'one fuel tank range, no auto-scooping' proposal?

Sure - if that's a module I can buy and fit ala the docking computer. Auto scooping is a bridge too far methinks, at least that has actual gameplay involved.

I'm fine with;

No auto refueling
No auto exploring
No auto combat
No auto rest stop
No auto are we there yet
No auto [insert something]

As longs as it's auto star jump and line up!

This. Though "auto are we there yet" is a feature you get for free by looking at the left panel :D
 
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Jex =TE=

Banned
Exactly, ED doesn't have those Apollo 13 scenarios, that's the issue. Now, ask yourself, will AP solve that?

Exactly nothing. We're talking about an AP here, not the rest of the game which still needs major work. The question is "Would you like an AP" - Not "Would you like an AP but only on the basis it fixes the rest of the game" - that hasn't been part of this conversation - I'm not sure why you're raising it as a point?
 
Boredom > Not boredom. If there's all to do when on a long distance haul, let's remove the pretense and stop pretending that humanity forgot about 20th century autopilot.

In fact FD mentioned realism to justify features more than one time, AP is a reality component. I mean, I can travel thousand times the light velocity and I drive my ship like a horse in the 4000 BC ? Flying vehicles from not-so-recent past (till 1912, from Sperry Corporation) have AP, why they lost it 1000 years later ?
 
No, I said to the game play you described - that has no depth. Unless that's all you do?

Well, it's complicated.....

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Jex =TE=

Banned
Lets just say this: FD probably wanted to make a big galaxy and the only way to do that is to design game mechanics which force you to take time. By taking time I mean actually engaging with the game while travelling, which is exactly what AP eliminates, thus, the galaxy is now fairly small which defeats the purpose of my first point.

And for the nth time, exploration needs to change, even explorers get burned after a while but AP isn't a solution. Maybe beyond will bring proper gameplay to exploration.



After a system scan you get to see the celestial objects in the system map which might be of your interest. Since "interesting" is subjective, I wouldn't expect the computer to tell you that.

Well beyond is what we're hoping for - we don't even have an AP so it's just a thing we're discussing that we'd like, given the choice. FDev made a game and then made Eng's and doubled jump ranges then put in super hyper jump stars so no, they don't care about the galaxy size.

If anything, travel is way to fast as it is. An AP doesn't make travelling any faster though. It's no effort to go anywhere in the game which is a pity. After the game released, people were out on the rim in under a week or something.

This is one of the massive issues with space games though. You make your game world too big then you better fill it too. I'd rather have slower travel times but more stuff. It seem ridiculous that given the size of the galaxy, just how much there isn't in it for players to interact with.
 

Jex =TE=

Banned
You don't only click "j" when exploring or travelling, nontheless, it is the demand in time that matters. AP does in fact eliminate this as now I can just leave the computer playing itself while going to school. Essentially, your idea transforms travelling to waiting.



The only way to conceptualize size is by the time it takes you to get somewhere. Obviously ED doesn't inform you how many trillions of Kms you are away from something but it conpensates via the time it takes to travel through it.



Factually wrong, there are in fact places where certain stars are more common.



Its time, not the J key that matters.



Now, if you think there's nothing special beyond the bubble then why would you even want to exit it?



Not at all, you know why? Because it doesn't take time.



So, then there's no point to continue.



Is AP gameplay? Is allowing a player to progress by just sitting down and reading a book gameplay?

no, neither is gameplay and you read a book with both examples anyway. At Least with an AP you can forgo a mundance task. OK so certain stars can be in one area, woopee, I've seen every star type.

As for distances, you have no idea what lightspeed is like or FTL so you have no idea how far out you are and FDev do their best to make you feel like you're in a game with their tacky gameplay. It's not even a galaxy, is it? It's an instanced skybox you can't travel out of so you probably never actually move - it just loads in a new background.
 
No, I said to the game play you described - that has no depth. Unless that's all you do?

No, of course that’s not all I do! I also point my ship at things and wait for the little spinning wheel to stop. Sometimes a lot of that. From time to time I’ll go sightseeing on planets too, landing just to drive around and break up the monotony.

Oh, and I take screenshots too! Lots of scenic screenshots, that’s some of my most compelling gameplay in Elite! :cool:
 
Exactly nothing. We're talking about an AP here, not the rest of the game which still needs major work. The question is "Would you like an AP" - Not "Would you like an AP but only on the basis it fixes the rest of the game" - that hasn't been part of this conversation - I'm not sure why you're raising it as a point?

I didn't say all the game, just that niche part of exploration which is the most relevant activity related to AP.
 
I think it would be great if it was like in ffe. You had a true nav-computer. You selected a station in a system and you got navigated there. Why do i have to fly every route on my own. Its actually bothering to center a planet every time and take to not fly to far because you read the galnet-stuff. I have to stop reading permanently to see where i am. Same if i want to check stuff in the galaxymap or else. The autopilot is almost completely pointless...

Same with systemjumps though i really like the idea of active jumprange-increasement by some sort of minigame.
 
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]I’ve read maybe half the thread so not sure if this has been gone over...[/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Outside the bubble auto travel to me would work if they made more anomalies in systems. So rather than just go read a book while you travel you have to engage the game. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Say you plot 50 jumps, fine. NPC helmsman/computer would do the work, you are at rest. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]But depending on “factors” there would be a chance of the ship low waking and alerting you to an anomaly that you should be aware of. I’m not sure what form these could take or the randomness of occurrence. [/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]At the moment I am about 50kly from the bubble and worn out, something like the above would do me I think. [/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Old derilict ships, signals of some kind, human/alien, even the odd wake signature to spice things up like a ship just left, natural phenomena etc. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Excuse me if this has been suggested it just had me thinking.[/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]o7[/FONT][/FONT]
 
I’ve read maybe half the thread so not sure if this has been gone over...]

This is pretty much how I imagined travel to be before I joined the Alpha/Beta, cruising along in SC to regions off space, background changing in real time, on autopilot, navigational hazards and anomalies, programming the nav computer to change course to investigate a distress signal or secret pirate base 1LY away in deep space. Doing various things on your ship whilst you travelled to the next destination.

I do wonder how it will work when we can roam around inside the ships, with the current mechanics we will either need to be docked or flying in a straight line in normal space. Not how imagined living in a virtual 2000+ tonne freighter with a crew travelling around the galaxy.
 
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Obviously there are some players who would enjoy the game more if there was some method of autopiloting jumps. Equally clearly, there are others who would feel this to be a dumbing down of the game or would detract from the sense of scale that is an integral part of the ED galaxy. Without arguing the merits of either viewpoint, how could both groups of players be satisfied?

Firstly, autopilot must be optional. Off by default in the right hand UIs functions panel. If you want to use it, turn it on before charging your FSD for the first jump.

Secondly, autopilot needs to != rapid travel. It must not be possible to "get there" faster with an autopilot than you do by manually flying it. In fact, you should be able to shave several minutes off even a four or five jump route by manually flying it well or by being prepared to tolerate greater heat buildup than the autopilot will allow etc. The possible mechanics I outline below will handle this quite nicely.

So, those mechanics....
  • Autopilot will not jump to a system for which you do not have system data unless that system has a nav beacon. If your plotted route passes through such a system the autopilot will, instead of jumping there, drop to normal space and signal for your attention. You will have to pilot the next jump manually, and if you don't want to be stopped there again be sure to honk it before you try and move on. Obviously this means explorers will be piloting most jumps manually once they get beyond the bubble, at least on the way out. If they come back in along the same axis as they departed they are likely to be returning through systems they honked on the way out and so the autopilot will transit those systems on the way back in.
  • Autopilot will not scoop fuel. Nor will it execute a jump beyond the last star on your route known to be scoopable (IF you have a scoop fitted) or to have a nav beacon indicating a resident population - whichever one is further along your route and within your unrefuelled range. Note that careless autopiloting can still strand you without fuel if you use up the last of your tank jumping to a system that is populated, has a nav beacon, but only has outposts and you're in a ship that needs a large pad, or that last jump lands you in a system where for whatever other reason you can't refuel there!
  • Autopilot will not attempt a jump that requires neutron star assistance or synthesized FSD boost. It will drop to normal space and disengage, waiting for the pilot to fly that next jump manually.
  • Autopilot will always enter a system at zero throttle and immediately orient on the next waypoint. If the jump target is obscured, it will change course 90 degrees directly away from the center of the obscuring mass and fly in that direction until the jump path is clear, at which point it will orient the ship accordingly. Once the jump path is clear, the FSD has cooled down and ship heat is 55% or lower, the autopilot will engage the FSD and throttle up for the next jump.
  • If ship heat exceeds 95%, the autopilot will make a safe drop to normal space, zero the throttle and disengage.
  • if interdicted, the autopilot will submit, zeri the throttle in normal space and disengage.
  • Autopilot will slow down and make a safe drop to normal space before crossing a star or planets SC exclusion zone (or orbital flight limit - it won't cross either the blue or green lines, it will make a safe drop just outside those limits) but - and this is important - it won't maneuver to avoid them either. It will just safely drop, zero the throttle and wait for you to handle the situation.

So yeah, if you want to you can automatically netflix across the galaxy, provided you're traveling through known systems, taking over the controls only to refuel, run away from a pirate or deal with autopilot brainfarts. If you're more a hands-on type then you'll get there quicker, if you're a hair-on-fire buckyballer you'll get there a LOT quicker. Exploring can't be shortcut by autopilot either.
 

Jex =TE=

Banned
This is pretty much how I imagined travel to be before I joined the Alpha/Beta, cruising along in SC to regions off space, background changing in real time, on autopilot, navigational hazards and anomalies, programming the nav computer to change course to investigate a distress signal or secret pirate base 1LY away in deep space. Doing various things on your ship whilst you travelled to the next destination.

I do wonder how it will work when we can roam around inside the ships, with the current mechanics we will either need to be docked or flying in a straight line in normal space. Not how imagined living in a virtual 2000+ tonne freighter with a crew travelling around the galaxy.

Pretty muchhow I imagined the game as well. Having stuff to do! - there's a novelty! ;)
 
I'd very much prefer AP with more involved route planning to current mind-numbing honk/steer/J routine. I want to be able to skip systems I consider unimportant during long distance travels.

There's a reason people say that they like SC more than jumping. Our current mode of travel skips interstellar space entirely, killing any sense of scale: there's no travel time difference whether you're jumping 5ly or 250ly with FSD supercharge. Galaxy right now is a series of different colored balls jumping in your face every 40 seconds or so.

And it makes no sense that in 34th century there's a dedicated docking computer that takes a lot of space and weights 1t or more. Did we go backwards in computer technology? What's even more baffling is that while there's a DC, automating much simpler maneuver like flying around spherical object is apparently impossible. And why honking involves human input, is there a downside in using it?

What also doesn't make sense is while traders treasure cargo hold space and combat pilots stock combat specific modules, for an explorer having extra fuel tank is almost always a downgrade.

I understand that hyperspace tunnel is essentially a loading screen in ED. but what I'd love to have for interstellar travel is sort of a "super super cruise". On a galaxy map i'd plot a route, either a direct one, or along several star systems I might be interested in, taking fuel capacity in consideration. The more fuel i have the more distance i should be able to cover before having to stop for a scoop. I still have to make sure I don't run out of fuel in interstellar space. And travel will not be a 10s tunnel animation, but like a SC it'll take time while i enjoy scenery while passing nearby stars. Just imagine a scenic trip around some nebula at 100Kc and higher. FSD quality then should impact maximum speed and fuel efficiency instead of jump range. Also, because it's no longer a star jump, to scoop I'd have to approach a star in SC from system's edge, making fuel tank capacity more valuable for endurance exploration.

But that'd be a different game I guess.
 
Obviously there are some players who would enjoy the game more if there was some method of autopiloting jumps. Equally clearly, there are others who would feel this to be a dumbing down of the game or would detract from the sense of scale that is an integral part of the ED galaxy. Without arguing the merits of either viewpoint, how could both groups of players be satisfied?

Firstly, autopilot must be optional. Off by default in the right hand UIs functions panel. If you want to use it, turn it on before charging your FSD for the first jump.

Secondly, autopilot needs to != rapid travel. It must not be possible to "get there" faster with an autopilot than you do by manually flying it. In fact, you should be able to shave several minutes off even a four or five jump route by manually flying it well or by being prepared to tolerate greater heat buildup than the autopilot will allow etc. The possible mechanics I outline below will handle this quite nicely.

So, those mechanics....
  • Autopilot will not jump to a system for which you do not have system data unless that system has a nav beacon. If your plotted route passes through such a system the autopilot will, instead of jumping there, drop to normal space and signal for your attention. You will have to pilot the next jump manually, and if you don't want to be stopped there again be sure to honk it before you try and move on. Obviously this means explorers will be piloting most jumps manually once they get beyond the bubble, at least on the way out. If they come back in along the same axis as they departed they are likely to be returning through systems they honked on the way out and so the autopilot will transit those systems on the way back in.
  • Autopilot will not scoop fuel. Nor will it execute a jump beyond the last star on your route known to be scoopable (IF you have a scoop fitted) or to have a nav beacon indicating a resident population - whichever one is further along your route and within your unrefuelled range. Note that careless autopiloting can still strand you without fuel if you use up the last of your tank jumping to a system that is populated, has a nav beacon, but only has outposts and you're in a ship that needs a large pad, or that last jump lands you in a system where for whatever other reason you can't refuel there!
  • Autopilot will not attempt a jump that requires neutron star assistance or synthesized FSD boost. It will drop to normal space and disengage, waiting for the pilot to fly that next jump manually.
  • Autopilot will always enter a system at zero throttle and immediately orient on the next waypoint. If the jump target is obscured, it will change course 90 degrees directly away from the center of the obscuring mass and fly in that direction until the jump path is clear, at which point it will orient the ship accordingly. Once the jump path is clear, the FSD has cooled down and ship heat is 55% or lower, the autopilot will engage the FSD and throttle up for the next jump.
  • If ship heat exceeds 95%, the autopilot will make a safe drop to normal space, zero the throttle and disengage.
  • if interdicted, the autopilot will submit, zeri the throttle in normal space and disengage.
  • Autopilot will slow down and make a safe drop to normal space before crossing a star or planets SC exclusion zone (or orbital flight limit - it won't cross either the blue or green lines, it will make a safe drop just outside those limits) but - and this is important - it won't maneuver to avoid them either. It will just safely drop, zero the throttle and wait for you to handle the situation.

So yeah, if you want to you can automatically netflix across the galaxy, provided you're traveling through known systems, taking over the controls only to refuel, run away from a pirate or deal with autopilot brainfarts. If you're more a hands-on type then you'll get there quicker, if you're a hair-on-fire buckyballer you'll get there a LOT quicker. Exploring can't be shortcut by autopilot either.

I don't think your suggestion would be unreasonable, some of it would give the automation a natural slow down, to artificially slow it more down is quite silly, and should not be needed.

Personality I'm ok with only travelling to known star systems, it should then be possible to purchase maps to those systems already in the cartographer starmap.

As mentioned before, the rough mechanics to make a AP is not that complicated, the complicated would be to make it satisfy those who would like the feature, and make those who don't like it accept it.

That being said, please don't make claims that what we got now is challeging, less netflixing or in anyone form a great way of travelling around in the galaxy. It makes you look silly and it's not needed.

Exploration will not be watered down, it simply can't be more basic than it already is, I support a more interresting exploration mechanics, i don't say exploration is fine! because it's not. Just like the mechanics of travelling around is not "fine".

This was suggested in the early days of the DDF, it was already in the DEVS awareness that this was needed. Somehow it didn't get a place in the game, however that is not the same as we should stay with what we got.

a lot of people would like this feature, and I'm guessing here, more people would like it than people who desperately are clinging to what we got now, for to me unknown reasons.

The aim is to make the game fun, challeging and interresting, to keep the playbase playing the game, and to attract new players?

This is not instant ship transfer, nor is it instant module transfer, nor is it instant anything. What is suggested is that a small part of the game get leaned, by adding a choice, autocruise or hands-on-stick, you make the choice, you play it your way, not by playing it as
the boy next door what you to play it.

It will not make you win, it will not make you get there first, however it will make you actually enjoy playing the game during all its phases and not just those parts you was actually going to play.

automation as suggested will not take anything away from anybody, it will only give people a choice.

[video=youtube;XcHy6V7qUKo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcHy6V7qUKo[/video]

The guy who made this kindly asked FD if it was ok, it was not, we respect this by not using it, however we know people are using similar tools, they just don't tell about it, it's not difficult therefore it will be done by those who got the skills, that is just facts, so what you got is a dilemma.

Unless someone got a really good argument to why we should keep the current mechanic, I can't see why this is going to ruin the game for other people.

And where does it stop? trading tools? any tool outside the game? where do you want to draw the line?
 
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You don't only click "j" when exploring or travelling, nontheless, it is the demand in time that matters. AP does in fact eliminate this as now I can just leave the computer playing itself while going to school. Essentially, your idea transforms travelling to waiting.

Wait... what? Have you actually read what people have suggested regarding an AP?
 
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