Do frontier still play their game?

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Ohh look another person trolls devs because he doesn't like some parts of he sees issues with it.

Can we please stop being this snarky and edgy? It looks...just bad. Devs play their game, their QA plays as much as most active players...because that's their job.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Whether or not they play the game is a benign question - anyone who says they absolutely don't is wrong, but if you say they do; you are still left in the situation that spawned the question. They often implement things that have massive unintended consequences; places like Quince remain unchanged for months, even years; and bulk passenger missions had become a community sensation long before a post was made about it on this forum.

The question is: Do they play the game enough to have design goals that match the games needs?

And I think the answer is.. it sure feels ​like they don't.

It is impossible to play game so much to come up with all those things. It is not how development works. Devs aren't approaching game from min/maxers POV. Their goal is to make game for us, regular crowd, not OCD obsessed.

 

[Bortas]

Die they ever play it? Another confusing point is the chieftain... in the live stream they said it would be positioned between the FGS and Python when in fact it's more or less a FAS clone. [where is it]

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Some people are incapable of understanding that other people may have different opinions.

When presented with evidence of non-compliance they are forced to assume that contrary opinions are rooted in ignorance or what they term 'white knight' behavior.

This allows them to retain a sense of superiority.

Interestingly, an inability to empathize with another person's feelings is indicative of a sociopathic pathology.

Empathize does not mean agreement or not having strong opposite POV. So you have rights to opinion, sure, but sometimes there's nothing really agree with. Especially in this case.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

And in my experience, people whom have dabbled in a thing, are literally the worst offenders for believing they have all the answers. I know enough about some other industries (apart from my own) to know I don't know jack and shouldn't preach like I own the joint.

YMMV. o7

Exactly, which is why you have to stop just one step before *demanding* any of your ideas. Something thats true about everything is if its not yours its not yours...

Some further interesting points:
- With all appreciation to people building their thing for many years now.. 'well if you don't play it it can't be that fun, can it' comes into existence.
- Steam early access exists, if anything theres much more public development stories to compare to, and yes it still is possible for a game developer to enjoy playing their own game.
- It gets interesting in the probably common scenario of a developer having a personal preference for something themselves, but the decided result isn't exactly what they would have done. Not assuming any developer would drop their efforts, but do they really get and believe in the overuled version? At the level of game assets its probably safe as it would all be specified, but at the design level... the best example is ship transfer delay. We all remember sandro was pretty adamant during the conference stream about there being no delay, and the gameplay basis for making it so.. but then it changed. You can still see that the whole thing was first designed for a no delay mechanic. Without a delay its perfect. With a delay and animated triangles (as it currently is) it feels like an afterthought.

Anyways, just speculating into the internet.

PS. Also the ship transfer delay was frontiers fault completely... everything from not putting the change in beta before asking internet hordes to make a game changing vote, to well, thinking that animated triangles was the best to go about it once the decision was made.

 

[Ambroza]

Not a big fan of these threads targeting specific employees, doesn't seem productive at all.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Not a big fan of these threads targeting specific employees, doesn't seem productive at all.

Only if those employees are distressed in a certain way, and elite larger is comfortable and positive from what i can tell.

The fact that they've discounted the base game 3 times in a row with a few days gap makes me guess that the cosmetic sales are booming.

Though sorry if it is actually a death march going on back there. I really doubt this.

 

[kofeyh]

Die they ever play it? Another confusing point is the chieftain... in the live stream they said it would be positioned between the FGS and Python when in fact it's more or less a FAS clone. [where is it]

If you have a choice between chieftain and FAS; it's probably FAS. Lakon have more work to do. It's not a pocket python, nor is it a lakon gunship (that'd be the type-10). Comparing it to an FGS is hilarious. My type-10's bubble canopy is made out of stronger stuff than the hull. The life support must be buried deep inside the hull. Long after heat death of the universe, lakon type-10 canopies will still exist.

Chieftain? The life-support seems to be situated approximately 2 feet down the barrel of the opponents hardpoints. They even sneeze, and I hear cracking.

--

This is pretty fixable; but it's no pocket python and adding even 2-3 slots doesn't really make it one. It's just compromising something because of course every ship should be great at everything is how you get stuff like the Asp Scout.

 

[Ambroza]

Only if those employees are distressed in a certain way, and elite larger is comfortable and positive from what i can tell..

No, it's actually unproductive regardless of whether or not they're distressed. You're just venting.

 

[Mugur]

Do you remember when in one of the livestreams before the Beta, when Ed announced that will be a HOTAS given away, Sandro mumbled "well, so the budget increased, well, well, well..." or something like that?

The problem is not with playing their own game, the problem is that IMHO the game's current developing budget is low. They need more man-days for QC, for design, for coding, for designers of assets, etc. if they want to make something truly remarkable.

Some things are obvious: I started beta buying a Chieftain and engineer every component. During this I encountered a lot of bugs / small missteps (and a few big ones IMHO) that, normally won't escape to a dedicated QC team in permanent contact with a design lead. Take, for example, the special effects button that was red (i.e. like when you have no materials for it) if the currently selected mod and grade was also red, instead of acting completely independent: why should I be forced to keep at least one roll of mats available for a mod in order to apply a special effect to it for which I have the mats needed? Or how about the "placeholder" that was the fixed weapon icon and that was placed everywhere? And don't tell me "it's a beta" - those things should be tested before any public build.

So I may not agree with many of the Sandro's (Madcap Sandy ) design decisions, but I think that a lot of them were constrained by the assigned budget.

 

[Whitehair]

Do you remember when in one of the livestreams before the Beta, when Ed announced that will be a HOTAS given away, Sandro mumbled "well, so the budget increased, well, well, well..." or something like that?

The problem is not with playing their own game, the problem is that IMHO the game's current developing budget is low.

Hahahahahah. Talk about MISSING the joke. LOLOLOL

 

[Mugur]

I don't think that I should put a "/s" tag for just about everything...

 

[MarkAusten]

I'm just saying, before you decide to backhand insult on an internet forum by suggesting they have a personality disorder, be sure you have the qualifications to diagnose such a thing that includes something more than a cursory glance at a Wikipedia article.

Or better yet, keep the insults to yourself.

Like many things you do not have the be an accredited "expert" to know something. I do not need to have a Doctorate in physics to know how gravity works and to use it, nor do I have to be a doctor of medicine to know when someone is drunk or has a cold, I do not need to be a time-traveller in order to be a historian, and so on.

Nor do I need to be credited as a physician in order to quote one of the accepted (by those that make the definition of those things) criteria that defines a particular psychiatric disorder. His quote was correct.

Instead of taking insult and returning insults perhaps you should take the high road and treat it as a humorous aside? Or perhaps the quote was correct. If the hat fits and all that.

 

[lokvette]

Yes. They do live streams and everything. Sometimes I wonder how many forum posters still play though.

well I read and tend to post almost every day, not played since mid October.

 

[CMDR Cylixx]

It is impossible to play game so much to come up with all those things. It is not how development works. Devs aren't approaching game from min/maxers POV. Their goal is to make game for us, regular crowd, not OCD obsessed.

Thankyou captain obvious. My point is that if it isn't possible for them to do that, then they need to think of another way of compensating. Be unconventional, find ways of getting more fluent feedback, to create for themselves an accurate image of how the game is played by players.

Not to be rude, but your reply pretty much says: "It works for me because I am better than everyone else; I'm not a min maxer" or whatever. Pretty pointless to share your opinions if they are gonna be served with your arrogance too.

 

[Mr_Foxhound]

Ed has played a lot of elite, actually; probably most out the team. It's pretty skitzophrenic play though, given he's expected to showcase random parts of the game. Just probably not in any great capacity personally; I don't blame him, I try to not spend hundreds of hours of my spare time bringing my job home with me, either. Honestly, the developer isn't required to actually play their game. It's just evident that the QC team is more management & triaging issues, rather than active play testing. That's it.

I think we'd all love frontier to spend a little more time internally testing mechanics; but hell, every community is going to ask that. So that's hardly surprising. QC teams are often fairly small (based on the couple I've been in and a couple more I know friends in) so may not be best able to play a lot. That's really on Frontier to manage.

But the hilarious part, is most of what Frontier does? At the behest of people like yourself, who believe they (clearly) have the absolute solution to all the problems. Most all of the changes and mechanics have their DNA based on rampant endless demand that would make a harpie blush recommendations from extremely over-opinionated somewhat passionate people.

It's one thing to ask; to request. To question. Quite another to tell a person how to do their job; which this forum is becoming increasingly infamous for. And saying Sandro should play the game a lot because that's his job (no, actually he's the lead dev, so not at all really) won't actually solve anything, given much of the output is derived from player input.

So perhaps the more pertinent question, is what credentials do you have, for passing judgement on how the developer should perform their job? I'm presuming decades of management experience for a start. Presumably some start up experience with respect to team building and agile structures; definitely various stints in software design. Right?



Random internet person, what are you even on about. Like, at all. This is a discussion forum. People will discuss. Not all of it will be agreeable discussion. In other news, water is defined as being wet.

i would probably guess ed's play time is the accumulated time of all the live streams and only plays ...on the live streams apart from that "not" legit playing

 

[robbyp]

Its amazing the internet isn't it. I mean would the OP be as rude to the people of Frontier if he had to say that directly to their faces. But on the internet its fair game.

Yes Ed does play. He went all the way to Beagle point and back on his own time.

 

[MarkAusten]

So the first insult was fine. Responding to it was the problem.

Nope, insults are never "fine", however, responding to an insult with another insult is worse. As I said, take the high ground.

 

[MarkAusten]

Ya, I mean I get it. But sometimes it's hard to take the high ground. Every single thread criticizing any aspect of the game gets flooded with people attacking the OP in defense of the game. After a while it gets extremely frustrating that you can't even voice your opinion without being insulted. It's a good point about the ignore lists, but that advice goes both ways. If someone is criticizing the game, these guys can just ignore it too.

It would be nice if any personal attacks on either side of the fence were more heavily moderated.

I agree entirely. Sometime I feel that the moderation is very forgiving, too forgiving in my opinion, but there again, I'm not a very forgiving person either!

 

[gooddoc]

Not a big fan of these threads targeting specific employees, doesn't seem productive at all.

Me niether.....time to start clicking that ignore user button again!