ED vs PvP

madmac

madmac
It is too early to decide or angst over what will happen, the majority of the game features are still to be introduced and we have no idea what will happen.

What Im planning for the release is to trade ,trade,trade until I can outfit a heavily armed ship with a decent cargo capacity and then off I go, out into deepest darkest space to explore and see what is out there. I expect to have to defend myself and I expect that I will kill people, other than that, no real plans.

Once a player has spent enough time trading and has enough bank balance, then they will switch to doing something else, go pirate, bounty hunter, join a faction, the thing is, we just don't know how this will pan out, so all this angst and hand wringing is just pointless and silly. As for the insults, c'mon people, this isn't what Elite is about, it is only a game ***...
 

robo

robo
Has PvP threads been discussed several times before? If so then I do apologise, I thought there was a multitude of griefing threads, but I don't see that as being the same thing.

PvP is accepted in a vast amount of other games, hell it's integral to game play, in the likes of Call of Duty, Battlefield, Titanfall etc... But griefing is not accepted across the gaming community, I can see a clear distinction, this thread was originally about the mindset of the PvP gamer in the ED galaxy.
 

Dai

D
Cosmo said:
There are many people who like PVP and PAP. Not everyone bothers to discuss it. Currently the old-Elite fans are the majority, but there will be many more new players, with fresh opinions to Elite who also like more PVP, PAP.
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As this is a remake of the old elite shouldn't it be just that? So assuming I am right in saying it is an Elite remake, can't we assume that the old Elite players may have a point? If Mr Braben wanted to make WOW in space he would have made WOW in space.

It could just be that this game will stand on it's own two feet and not need to be WOW in space, and if that isn't the game you want perhaps it just isn't the game you want.

I would also point out to everyone that there are three groups discussing this.

1. Old elite players - worried that the long anticipated remake of the greatest game ever invented isn't watered down with some mutli-player features that spoil the whole feel of the game, allow hackers to exploit and griefers who just want to spoil the game for people and have no intention of playing the game as intended

2. PVP fans, guys who genuinely enjoy playing directly against other live players who basically want another mode of this game which is much smaller and essentially puts the players into battle area's to fight other players

3. Griefers - guys that say they want PVP action, but not for the joy of playing properly against other live players but just because they enjoy upsetting other live players and are not playing the game as the developers have intended.

I am an old elite guy, bought the game on release day and loved it, however I don't see any reason why the devs couldn't add a fourth mode to allow a more direct PVP action for those that want to take their ships into battle against other players. As for the griefers well is anyone seriously listening to them? and do we care? they are a minority and as such can be ignored.

The live mode of this game will allow PVP play, but understand it is a big environment and therefore you will most likely be interacting with NPC's most of the time just through the sheer scale of the game. but that also waters down the griefers so you shouldn't notice them much (and if you do you can black their asses) so playing in the open world shouldn't be a problem for anyone. Having said that I am glad for the solo mode as a just in case the systems do get taken over by idiots (hackers especially not seen a multiplayer game that hasn't been) and or for game longevity, if the servers ever get taken down it should be easy for the game to be modified to play in solo mode without online look up.
 

Iraticus

I
Dai said:
As this is a remake of the old elite shouldn't it be just that? So assuming I am right in saying it is an Elite remake, can't we assume that the old Elite players may have a point? If Mr Braben wanted to make WOW in space he would have made WOW in space.

It could just be that this game will stand on it's own two feet and not need to be WOW in space, and if that isn't the game you want perhaps it just isn't the game you want.

I would also point out to everyone that there are three groups discussing this.

1. Old elite players - worried that the long anticipated remake of the greatest game ever invented isn't watered down with some mutli-player features that spoil the whole feel of the game, allow hackers to exploit and griefers who just want to spoil the game for people and have no intention of playing the game as intended

2. PVP fans, guys who genuinely enjoy playing directly against other live players who basically want another mode of this game which is much smaller and essentially puts the players into battle area's to fight other players

3. Griefers - guys that say they want PVP action, but not for the joy of playing properly against other live players but just because they enjoy upsetting other live players and are not playing the game as the developers have intended.

I am an old elite guy, bought the game on release day and loved it, however I don't see any reason why the devs couldn't add a fourth mode to allow a more direct PVP action for those that want to take their ships into battle against other players. As for the griefers well is anyone seriously listening to them? and do we care? they are a minority and as such can be ignored.

The live mode of this game will allow PVP play, but understand it is a big environment and therefore you will most likely be interacting with NPC's most of the time just through the sheer scale of the game. but that also waters down the griefers so you shouldn't notice them much (and if you do you can black their asses) so playing in the open world shouldn't be a problem for anyone. Having said that I am glad for the solo mode as a just in case the systems do get taken over by idiots (hackers especially not seen a multiplayer game that hasn't been) and or for game longevity, if the servers ever get taken down it should be easy for the game to be modified to play in solo mode without online look up.
Click to expand...

disagree
 

robo

robo
Dai said:
As this is a remake of the old elite shouldn't it be just that? So assuming I am right in saying it is an Elite remake, can't we assume that the old Elite players may have a point? If Mr Braben wanted to make WOW in space he would have made WOW in space.

It could just be that this game will stand on it's own two feet and not need to be WOW in space, and if that isn't the game you want perhaps it just isn't the game you want.

I would also point out to everyone that there are three groups discussing this.

1. Old elite players - worried that the long anticipated remake of the greatest game ever invented isn't watered down with some mutli-player features that spoil the whole feel of the game, allow hackers to exploit and griefers who just want to spoil the game for people and have no intention of playing the game as intended

2. PVP fans, guys who genuinely enjoy playing directly against other live players who basically want another mode of this game which is much smaller and essentially puts the players into battle area's to fight other players

3. Griefers - guys that say they want PVP action, but not for the joy of playing properly against other live players but just because they enjoy upsetting other live players and are not playing the game as the developers have intended.

I am an old elite guy, bought the game on release day and loved it, however I don't see any reason why the devs couldn't add a fourth mode to allow a more direct PVP action for those that want to take their ships into battle against other players. As for the griefers well is anyone seriously listening to them? and do we care? they are a minority and as such can be ignored.

The live mode of this game will allow PVP play, but understand it is a big environment and therefore you will most likely be interacting with NPC's most of the time just through the sheer scale of the game. but that also waters down the griefers so you shouldn't notice them much (and if you do you can black their asses) so playing in the open world shouldn't be a problem for anyone. Having said that I am glad for the solo mode as a just in case the systems do get taken over by idiots (hackers especially not seen a multiplayer game that hasn't been) and or for game longevity, if the servers ever get taken down it should be easy for the game to be modified to play in solo mode without online look up.
Click to expand...

I agree. David Braben & Frontier Developments have already said well over a year ago, they are making the game they want to play, if you don't like it, make it yourself. This game will effectively be a revamped improved version of Elite, DB has already stated several times that there will be mechanics in place to keep mischievous players in check.

What I'm finding quite amusing is people using an argument that if they are not allowed to sneak up behind an easy to kill trader & blow him to bits as he's trying to dock, then the ED galaxy will be all cuddly, a carebare galaxy. :rolleyes: Really, no middle ground, from one extreme to the other, REALLY?

All the other versions of Elite had policing in them, yes I know they weren't multiplayer, but there is no real reason why it won't work for ED & the other versions of Elite were anything but cuddly/carebare like.

So Elite history dictates that this carebare argument is no argument at all, no matter how new you are to this game, the developer's of ED will be making this game as it was intended.
 

watto33

W
Oh no, don't mention PvP here.. this game has more trading carebears than a Pokemon convention.

No seriously.. if most of the people here had it their way we'd all be sitting at Azeban City selling each other silver
 

Sissors

S
Dai said:
As this is a remake of the old elite shouldn't it be just that? So assuming I am right in saying it is an Elite remake, can't we assume that the old Elite players may have a point? If Mr Braben wanted to make WOW in space he would have made WOW in space.

It could just be that this game will stand on it's own two feet and not need to be WOW in space, and if that isn't the game you want perhaps it just isn't the game you want.

I would also point out to everyone that there are three groups discussing this.

1. Old elite players - worried that the long anticipated remake of the greatest game ever invented isn't watered down with some mutli-player features that spoil the whole feel of the game, allow hackers to exploit and griefers who just want to spoil the game for people and have no intention of playing the game as intended

2. PVP fans, guys who genuinely enjoy playing directly against other live players who basically want another mode of this game which is much smaller and essentially puts the players into battle area's to fight other players

3. Griefers - guys that say they want PVP action, but not for the joy of playing properly against other live players but just because they enjoy upsetting other live players and are not playing the game as the developers have intended.

I am an old elite guy, bought the game on release day and loved it, however I don't see any reason why the devs couldn't add a fourth mode to allow a more direct PVP action for those that want to take their ships into battle against other players. As for the griefers well is anyone seriously listening to them? and do we care? they are a minority and as such can be ignored.

The live mode of this game will allow PVP play, but understand it is a big environment and therefore you will most likely be interacting with NPC's most of the time just through the sheer scale of the game. but that also waters down the griefers so you shouldn't notice them much (and if you do you can black their asses) so playing in the open world shouldn't be a problem for anyone. Having said that I am glad for the solo mode as a just in case the systems do get taken over by idiots (hackers especially not seen a multiplayer game that hasn't been) and or for game longevity, if the servers ever get taken down it should be easy for the game to be modified to play in solo mode without online look up.
Click to expand...
So this is the old argument of: Everyone with a different opinion is a griever/carebear/casual/noob/whatever (strike through what is not relevant)?

I haven't seen anyone yet who wants to remove solo play. So if you are afraid of other players you could always just stick to that, no one cares. But making multiplayer into a solo player environment seems kinda counter-productive to me. Why would there need to be two of those, and no real multiplayer?

But apparantly everyone who doesn't want to limit pvp to special arenas, has a different opinion than you have, so there are grievers? Well guess I am a griever now. If you can't see why being able to shoot player haulers (for example) has significant advantages, then thats fine, but maybe you shouldn't call everyone who does a griever without allowing the option that maybe they do want to have that in the game while they aren't grievers...
 

Matthiby

M
I've noticed several mentions in the forums of a "private" universe where people who continually grief and gank get relegated to. If that is already in the game, perhapts it could be made a choice from the options for new players. It could be marketed as "the hellhole universe, the prison 'verse" and attract the kind of player who enjoy the challenge of surviving against the worst of the worst?
 

Dr.Dag

D
watto33 said:
Oh no, don't mention PvP here.. this game has more trading carebears than a Pokemon convention.

No seriously.. if most of the people here had it their way we'd all be sitting at Azeban City selling each other silver
Click to expand...

I assume you are referring to PvE players as 'carebears'. What animal/thing are PvP players then?

Dag
 

Dai

D
Sissors said:
So this is the old argument of: Everyone with a different opinion is a griever/carebear/casual/noob/whatever (strike through what is not relevant)?

I haven't seen anyone yet who wants to remove solo play. So if you are afraid of other players you could always just stick to that, no one cares. But making multiplayer into a solo player environment seems kinda counter-productive to me. Why would there need to be two of those, and no real multiplayer?

But apparantly everyone who doesn't want to limit pvp to special arenas, has a different opinion than you have, so there are grievers? Well guess I am a griever now. If you can't see why being able to shoot player haulers (for example) has significant advantages, then thats fine, but maybe you shouldn't call everyone who does a griever without allowing the option that maybe they do want to have that in the game while they aren't grievers...
Click to expand...


Um did you actually read my post? and if you did, did you understand it? Did I say the PVP should be limited to arena's? no! did I say if anyone disagrees they are carebears? no! do I have a problem with other peoples opinions? no!

I have just stated that the game will be what the game will be. It is not ever going to be a big PVP space WOW experience! I am not saying that from any form of anti PVP opinion, but because space is huge! the ED environment is going to be huge.

I am looking forward to meeting live players in the open world, I really am. and if you want to try and shoot me, feel free I will fight back. Want to co-op fine maybe I will give that a go. I am not shrinking away from live players in game, I encourage it. More the merrier. However in a game of 400 billion systems most likely with 5 or six points on interest at least in each system to explore and assuming that there won't be more than 1 million players ever playing elite and even if they do, all being on at the same time is unlikely. Surely you can cope with some simple maths and realize the open play in ED will never be a massive PVP fest like WOW, sorry but it won't! Just to add to that, it is also David Brabens intention that it isn't like that. end of discussion on that point, what DB want he get's, it's his ball and he can play whatever game he want with it.

I was merely also offering a possible "solution" or "suggestion" that ED may implement to give those that want a more "live" environment wnat they want by suggesting a fourth mode. I thought I was being quite generous to all sides of the argument (apart from the griefers) but obviously that fell on deaf ears.

Nobody is dissing the current live online mode, I think the majority of players will be playing the full online mode, so if you are worried they won't be, then don't be, just don't expect it to be FULL of live players coz it won't be. (it's just too big)

and those that are worried about the full online mode being full of idiots, for the same reason it won't be, and if there are, block them and you never have to care again, and if it gets horrible with hackers there is always solo play.

SO everyone should be happy!

I feel like I am talking to my 4 year old, We shouldn't have to keep explaining this!
 

Sissors

S
Now I might have missed something, and never played WOW myself, but since when is WOW a massive PvP fest? Isn't it mainly based around PvE?

And nice post, but you still haven't explained why according to you if you want pvp you either want arenas, or you are a griever. And that there are 400B systems definately won't mean you will never run into others. You have the option to never run into others, definately! But depending on how much in the final version is going to be player driver and how much NPC driven (We know it will be primary NPC driven, but currently many things simply are impossible to do between players, and I assume that is going to change), I also definately wouldn't be surprised if hubs arrise where most people stick to. And then the whole thing that you never see another player anyway falls away.


@Liqai, you consider such childish behavior doing well? Wow, guess I overestimated the level here.
 

Dai

D
So you think I am being childish, for explaining the facts? very odd Sissors, you have a strange view of childish. I have merely laid down what the game is and what you should expect.



OK I do admit, that those that want PVP may not just want an arena or be a griefer, perhaps am over simplifying that point.

However is that not what the PVP lobby want, a smaller environment where it is full of live players?

I am not say that in the online mode you will NEVER see a live player, of course you will, I hope we will I think the idea of interacting with live players in the game is exciting.

I am sure there will be high tech hubs which may even get quite busy, but as you float around the system it will not always be a massive live player fest is all I am saying.
 
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