Not really much thought. I just won't engage unwanted cmdrs.
Game is going to be boring.
C&P Problem?
- Thread starter o'moylan
- Start date
Not really much thought. I just won't engage unwanted cmdrs.
Game is going to be boring.
![mtt9999 [Parabolus]](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/124/124206.jpg?1553527149){kind=avatar}
I will. I'm grossly rich, and so are most cmdrs in this game. 45 mill won't stop me.
That being said I welcome higher fines. Big time.
It's not just about escalating the situation. If the person you accidentally hit decides to fight back and warping out isn't really an option for whatever reason, then you have no choice but to kill them and take the penalty.
Fixing the bounty exploit is great. But giving harsh penalties for trivial crimes is a terrible idea.
Ah but the crux of the argument behind "crimes and punishment" has always been what one considers "trivial" to begin with.
If you think murder is "trivial", then sure- it's a terrible idea. I disagree that escalation is always necessary- if someone shoots back you can still run, just as the argument has always been for "murderhobos", that if interdicted, you can still run, right? Same rules apply here.
No, in reality it means people will actually need to watch their steps and be a bit more strategic in their approach to PvP rather than just "all guns blazing", unless of course you can afford the rebuys and don't care. The only issue I personally have with the changes is that I don't think a credit penalty (or sink, rather) is a sufficient enough deterrent. More emphasis should be placed on the notoriety system, rather than just increasing credit sinks. Hopefully this gets fleshed out a bit more with profession introduction and expansion- so that piracy and other professions have an actual existence rather than being "just another activity" in the game.
The NPC's...just like always. You could never find a person you might be looking for anyway!
You could always comm them "sorry my mistake".
Civilized conversation? You must be joking!!!
As an old friend of mine is fond of saying, "when language fails, violence becomes the language"
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No. It will not. It will cost not much more than it currently costs in the live game.
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Fdev needs to focus more on making criminal activity more rewarding than just focusing on increasing punishments.
Pirating (PCs and NPCs), smuggling , etc needs to be way more rewarding especially in light of the substantial increase of punishments.
Pirating (PCs and NPCs), smuggling , etc needs to be way more rewarding especially in light of the substantial increase of punishments.
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Friendly fire was what I was referring to as trivial, not murder. The point being that something trivial can force you into doing something serious (murder).
I also disagree that escalation is always necessary. What I said was that it may occasionally be necessary.
Say you accidentally hit someone so you try to disengage but they continually interdict you on your attempts to run away, slowly shooting down your Shields and hull. Eventually you'll be forced to kill them or take the death. This is unlikely, sure. But it's an example that brings out the flaw in this mechanic.
There is a fine line here that devs have to be careful with. Make the accidental damage penalty too strict and you end up with what we have now where the person that shot can get griefed. Make it too lenient and the person that shot can be the one griefing instead.
You could, assuming that they'd be willing to listen and not screw you over.
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And the "fine" for accidentally shooting someone isn't a 45 million credit rebuy. It's still very negligible, unless you decide to continue firing on them.
Which, clearly- if they turn and fire on you your option is to SC out, or to engage, knowing that if you kill them you're facing a significantly costly rebuy later.
Choices and consequences.
The fine isn't the issue. The issue is allowing the other player to destroy your ship without you being able to legally defend yourself. This opens up the aforementioned griefing potential.And the "fine" for accidentally shooting someone isn't a 45 million credit rebuy. It's still very negligible, unless you decide to continue firing on them.
Which, clearly- if they turn and fire on you your option is to SC out, or to engage, knowing that if you kill them you're facing a significantly costly rebuy later.
Choices and consequences.
And what's your counter-proposal, other than allowing what's already in existence as potential FFA griefing?
Giving a fine but no kill rights on accidental damage. Like I said earlier, there's a fine line here. Too lenient and you allow people to grief with "accidental" damage. Too strict (current system) and you allow people to grief by trying to blow up your ship from an honest mistake.
I'm sure there's a better approach than what I propose and that's what we should be using this thread to figure out.
And, the better approach is what's in question here, no doubt. So that's the question, isn't it? What is your better approach?
Personally, I think perhaps a timer should be added from the first "accidental" shot, so that if the person who caused the damage truly does not intend to engage with the other CMDR, there would be sufficient warning to change their actions before a "crime" is reported (and thus engaging an ensuing fine). Of course, that would mean the shot doesn't do more than 50% damage to the vessel in question, say as a "one shot" kill.
Simple solution- your shot gains you a 5 minute timer, in which during that time if you hit the vessel again you'd then be reported as a criminal, and gain a fine- continuation or destruction of the ship would mean a murder charge and ensuing rebuy penalty.
Have a better one?
That's more or less what I had in mind as far as detailed rules are concerned.
The choice of giving a fine or a bounty is a tough one, especially for high damage low fire rate weapons. For things like lasers and multicanons it's trivial as only a few low damage shots should be landing in a true accidental engagement. But when you have something like a multiple class 2 or 3 railgun setup that will do tons of damage to a small ship, it's harder to discern between accidental and intentional.
Also, how do you deal with mine launchers and someone purposefully eating all of your mines. I guess there's not much to do there and that's just a weapon you can't use on a crowded site.
Regardless of how well you can discern the shooter's intentions, the system can still be griefed by someone running around a Rez site at 1% hull. But I feel like that's a more infrequent and easier to deal with situation.
The problem with going easy on friendly fire is when a wing of griefers all take advantage of only knocking your hull down by ten percent each (or whatever threshold you set) without showing wanted.
Eye's before trigger finger and it won't be a problem, it's already been made more lenient at least twice that I can remember.
Agreed, but in the end, people will always find a way around the rules if they're determined enough to do so. Which in such extreme circumstances the intention of the person would be at question, no doubt. In AOE weapons, the rules still apply... you don't set up AOE weapons unless your intention is to do damage to an area, not a specific target- this is where strategy comes into play.
A simple timer warning would alleviate harm in "accidental" situations, but further attempts would convey without a doubt the intention to kill said CMDR. It would be impossible to implement anything more complex, given that IRL a situation where someone shoots you immediately conveys the intent to harm to begin with. Of which, people who shoot into a crowd (whether they intend to kill or not) are still committing a crime- and aren't "let off with a warning" if they do so. Or, if you prefer, firing a missile at another plane even if you don't destroy it, doesn't earn you a "warning", etc.
This would be a lot more lenient that a RL situation in comparison. If that doesn't "satisfy" as a solution, nothing would.
What he said (again
) ^^^^^^Raised in C & P focused feedback. Suggested FD have a good look at fines v bounties for minor crimes. I'm just waiting for the rage quit thread when a player ignores a 400 Cr bounty, then later gets scanned and canned going through the mail slot in his expensive ship.
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What he said (again
Raised in C & P focused feedback. Suggested FD have a good look at fines v bounties for minor crimes. I'm just waiting for the rage quit thread when a player gets a 400 Cr bounty, then scanned and canned going through the mail slot in his expensive ship.
Which, if FD handles smartly- they'll account for "repetitive" vs "initial" crimes and adjust the punishment accordingly before its release.
Hence the necessity to determine "accidental" versus "intentional", for which they've yet to compensate.
(as a side note, I'm glad there's an Interstellar Contact available 1 jump from my home system...
)
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