The switch hasn't changed ever. The only thing it does is let other Commanders shoot you, without getting fines or bounties. That's it. And, that's exactly what the OP did. He made it ok to shoot at him. It had nothing to do with the coming changes to C&P, except for the costs.
New Crime & Punishment Will Be Broken If You Fly with CRIMES OFF
- Thread starter Nightshady
- Start date
The switch hasn't changed ever. The only thing it does is let other Commanders shoot you, without getting fines or bounties. That's it. And, that's exactly what the OP did. He made it ok to shoot at him. It had nothing to do with the coming changes to C&P, except for the costs.
Mohrgan and others, why do you persist in defending an indefensible position?
1) There is no legal system in the world that denies you the right of self defense.
2) The current state is in DIRECT opposition to the goals of the new cnp system
3) Anything else would be insane.
That is all.
1) There is no legal system in the world that denies you the right of self defense.
2) The current state is in DIRECT opposition to the goals of the new cnp system
3) Anything else would be insane.
That is all.
There, I even quoted myself for you so you don't have to scroll up one response and read it.
On a slightly side note, since this has got people talking and thinking about Report Crimes etc. IF RC doesn't tell the authorities I commited a crime, how the hell do they know when I don't scan a wanted ship? I'm damn sure the target ship doesn't know or care.. Just pondering things out loud.
You miss the point entirely. That is exactly what that switch does. And, nothing more. It makes it not a crime to shoot you. In order to retaliate, those shooting at you have to become Wanted. You don't become Wanted when you shoot a ship with RC switched to off.
Here's a logical thesis, go ahead and try and rebut it:
RC was created to allow two players to have a go at each other without invoking police response, in a spirit of mutually-consented PvP.
Then I say: using this system to engage players with RC OFF while having RC ON is an exploit, because it wasn't intended to be used in that way.
Go ahead and defeat that logical conclusion
Here's a logical thesis, go ahead and try and rebut it:
RC was created to allow two players to have a go at each other without invoking police response, in a spirit of mutually-consented PvP.
Then I say: using this system to engage players with RC OFF while having RC ON is an exploit, because it wasn't intended to be used in that way.
Go ahead and defeat that logical conclusion
No. The RC was created to allow players to shoot at, and destroy each others ships in the spirit.... The Authority response is a happy side effect. Each player controls their own RC state. When the OP went around with his RC off, he was in effect saying: "It's ok to shoot me". Just like when it's used in the spirit of...
The logic is clear, a switch that turns off the report crimes mechanism, means that crimes won't be reported. In order to legally retaliate, the attackers have to be Wanted. Simples.
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Wait, how does that contradict what I said? Cause it seems you've just repeated it...
Thank you for finally getting the point. Few more steps and you're on the right side of the fence here, just keep your mind open.
None of you "it works as intended" guys have still logically explained how turning that system off strips anyone of their right to self-defense.
Except the mutual agreement is not present here. How is that escaping you?
If that doesn't prove how simplistic, basic and stupid current legal in-game system is, then I don't know what does.
Which is my point here the whole time - this system is crap if it throws all legal achievements of 34 centuries of civilization out of the window and relies on telemetry systems that can be turned off to decide who's the perpetrator. LOL
It only explains the switch. The switch and C&P aren't that closely linked. When you turn RC off, you are making it ok to shoot at you. The OP misused the feature. In order to take revenge or defend yourself, you still need permission from the local authorities. That means your targets have to be Wanted. No amount of condescension will change that.
Thanks again for telling us how it works now. We know. It's still completely ridiculous that there can exist any situation where defending yourself from unprovoked attempted murder is illegal. How can you deny this?
Simplistic, yes. Stupid, no.
In fact it's so simplistic it's extremely straightforward to understand: law enforcement will arrive to assist ships reporting a crime which occured against them.
The problem is not to do with RCAM at all.
The problem is caused by players demanding to play a game which doesn't exist, and is now demanding Frontier change this game into that game.
It's illegal because Law Enforcement needs to happen in star systems with Law. Otherwise all star systems might as well be Anarchies.
Because the OP said it was ok to shoot at him. He turned his RC off. That made it legal for those FdL pilots to interdict, and shoot at him. The OP, in effect, gave up his right to self defense, when he turned RC off.
I see you're leaving fundamental legal intricacies out of your responses, just so you can focus on pandering the same old record over and over again.
Unfortunately, it's not a call center so this tactic won't have the desired effect.
Get back to me when you can legally and logically defend lack of constitutional rights to self-defense in light of not calling police during unlawful attempt at your life.
Cause until you can, you won't have sufficient evidence to back up your claim that current Elite legal system is spot-on.
Oh, I see.
So because I have crime reporting turned off, it's perfectly legal to assassinate me without any consequence. It's perfectly legal to commit murder in front of police eyes.
At the same time, I can just glance your shield with a single laser burst, and that's immediately illegal.
Perfectly-working legal system at its finest.
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I don't have to legally defend anything. I simply have to explain the system involved. It becomes plain that the feature doesn't do, what the OP thought it did.
I didn't claim anything about the incoming C&P system, I merely explained how the RC switch works. There are no Constitutional rights in a video game. I mean, I shudder at the thought that you would press your RL rights into a video game, set in a distant, dystopian, fictional future. It's kind of nuts, you know. Umm.... get a grip, ok?
Wait, isn't that the same as people demanding no consequences for having a friendly PvP go at each other, resulting in reporting crimes off/on switch?
I totally agree!
Without them casual PvP troublemakers, we wouldn't be in that mess today, but they've forced this solution so they could go pew pew completely isolated from the game's world and consequences, because that's the only thing they wanted to do in-game.
Yes. It is. Consent to being attacked happened when RCAM was switched off. It's been explained here 100's of times but some folks are still refusing to accept that they have responsibility for their own choices in this game.
Can't have your cake and eat it.
If you want to have no consequences for having a friendly PvP go at each other, either;
Fly to the nearest Anarchy star system - there's always one right next door.
or
Choose your opponents wisely by making sure you trust them enough to have their RCAM also switched off. After all, it's a 'friendly' PvP match.
If they don't honour the arrangement - then perhaps you PvP'ers can do the very thing you spout off about constantly - police yourselves. By that I mean sanction the 'dishonourable' PvP'ers until they get the message that the PvP crowd as a collective won't tolerate that kind of 'dishonour'.
You fail to account for the fact that only one half of the OP's scenario was expecting a friendly go at each other. The OP never established an agreement with his attackers, he just assumed everybody flew around with RC off, or was mistaken about what that switch did.
His attackers are in no way PvP trouble makers. They were in open, where shooting at other Commanders is expected. Especially if they come across a lone Commander that resolves out as "Lawless". This issue is simply a misunderstanding of what that RC switch does, and is for.
Wait, first you want to prove me wrong and convince me to your point of view, and then you state you don't have to prove your point of view? Then how do you want to convince me to your point of view?
No, you don't have to. We understand how it works.
And what is it that the OP thought it did, remind me? Cause I get a feeling you've no idea what you're talking about.
We've got that on the first page, thank you for your redundant explanation.
The explain why is murder punished.
I know, right?
And yet slavery is mostly illegal in Elite.
And yet murder is considered illegal in Elite.
And yet police is erected to ensure law is respected in Elite.
But what do I know of constitutional rights in video games.
I've found these, would two do better instead of one?
