No it isn't. If you turn something off, you can remember to turn it on again. It's not like it is an unknown quantity.
New Crime & Punishment Will Be Broken If You Fly with CRIMES OFF
- Thread starter Nightshady
- Start date
No it isn't. If you turn something off, you can remember to turn it on again. It's not like it is an unknown quantity.
I got a new approach...
Do you believe in the right of self defense? The ability to protect oneself, one's loved ones and or property from attack?
Yes or no. If you answer yes, you acknowledge the problem by default, OR you come up with a real life circumstance that's analogous to prove your point. If you answer no, I hope nobody ever threatens your family because you will be totally powerless to do anything about it, because you don't believe in self defense, you'll just stand there while your house is robbed and you and your family murdered.
Of course it is. I don't know when I'm going to be attacked randomly in order to make sure it's on at that time and not when I'm not. Please share your crystal ball! Reminder : I run crimes off mostly, so my trigger for turning it on would be attack, by which time its too late, as you well know.
Not to mention that id prefer not to call the police at all and fight my own battles, which I can't do if you have your way, and still defend myself. Funny part is that's what my attackers would want to.
Do you believe in the right of self defense? The ability to protect oneself, one's loved ones and or property from attack?
Yes or no. If you answer yes, you acknowledge the problem by default, OR you come up with a real life circumstance that's analogous to prove your point. If you answer no, I hope nobody ever threatens your family because you will be totally powerless to do anything about it, because you don't believe in self defense, you'll just stand there while your house is robbed and you and your family murdered.
Of course it is. I don't know when I'm going to be attacked randomly in order to make sure it's on at that time and not when I'm not. Please share your crystal ball! Reminder : I run crimes off mostly, so my trigger for turning it on would be attack, by which time its too late, as you well know.
Not to mention that id prefer not to call the police at all and fight my own battles, which I can't do if you have your way, and still defend myself. Funny part is that's what my attackers would want to.
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There are PvP'ers - those who play the game and expect and don't mind going up against other players in terms of pew-pew. Usually in arranged matches but don't mind the odd random encounter.
There are particularly rabid PvP'ers - those who only load the game to look for Space Pew-Pew, the rest of the game just gets in the way of that and the only reason to play the rest of the game is to get the best outfitting for their pew-pew ships. Places like CG's are good hotspots to encounter the maximum amount of other players in order to start up a bit of Space Pew-Pew.
Then there are the griefers. Similar to the 'rabid PvP' type, but have the distinction of making a conscious choice of deliberately going after players indiscriminately purely to ruin their day.
The second and third groups would be the ones most likely to want no star system police involvement in their activities. Those two groups are usually the ones with the greatest amount of hubris.
Just a question... Has anybody submitted a bug report to see if it really is "working as intended" or if indeed FD needs to fix this?
Your premise is pointless. The Appeal To Emotion fallacy won't work. There are no loved ones or family members in ED. This isn't real life. It's a dystopian, dangerous virtual world which has an already working system of Law in star systems which have such.
You don't know when you're going to be attacked randomly. Correct.
But you do know when you're about to jump to a star system with a security level higher than Anarchy. The HUD tells you this. The Galaxy Map tells you this. Security information is available before you even go there. If it's your 'home system' - you should know its security level. Therefore, if you know you're going to be jumping to a star system with Law, you have all the information you need, in order to decide whether to toggle RCAM off or on.
Seriously, give it up. No amount of logical fallacies are going to win you this one.
The game currently has a facility that allows people to take part in self defence, it works quite well. The report crimes against me option does this. If anyone chooses to forego this option then they forego the right to automatic self defense.
I agree that it's a bizarre set up that ships can attack with impunity depending on what the targets settings are, when the same system will give you a bounty for attacking a wanted ship if you don't scan it. There is a mismatch in game logic at heart here. However the general tone and attitude of the this thread has dragged it out into a slagging match.
As far as self defense goes, I'll say this. You are entitled to use the minimum amount of force required to remove the danger. This includes running away. In addition self defense is worthless in law, without burden of proof. However it's been a long time since I policed the streets and maybe things have changed.
I agree that it's a bizarre set up that ships can attack with impunity depending on what the targets settings are, when the same system will give you a bounty for attacking a wanted ship if you don't scan it. There is a mismatch in game logic at heart here. However the general tone and attitude of the this thread has dragged it out into a slagging match.
As far as self defense goes, I'll say this. You are entitled to use the minimum amount of force required to remove the danger. This includes running away. In addition self defense is worthless in law, without burden of proof. However it's been a long time since I policed the streets and maybe things have changed.
Erm... So yeh, the current situation that gives the rabid pvpers free reign to attack clean commanders is fine? You don't want rabid pvpers and griefers to be able to attack without consequence, yet everything you've posted so far in this thread supports exactly that. We are trying to make sure there are consequences for the rabid pvpers,even when their VICTIMS have Report Crimes turned off. That's the whole point of the thread
No, I'll just keep pointing out where you're wrong, thanks.
So, 1) ok, my bad for confusing you with loved ones and property, let's just say personal attack of attempted murder. Do you believe in defending yourself from someone trying to kill you? You cannot run and you do not have time to call the police, nor would they come in time. Do you have a right to defend yourself?
And 2) yes, I do know when I'm jumping into a system what security state it has, I specifically run with crimes of when doing my assassination missions which are ALWAYS in secure systems (durr, how do you go after a wanted target in an anarchy, lol). So, again, at which point am I expected to turn it back on prior to being attacked?
P. S its not slagging match at all, I'm discussing everything reasonably and logically.
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Yes, see suggestions.
Is definitely not a bug cos it's always been like that, it's only now become 'worth fixing' due to new cnp measures.
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![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
now as ever please remember i am personally happy with the suggestions made to solve OPs (and your) issue in the suggestions forum.
But imo this is not an honest or fair question in regards to this thread (in the UK btw you are NOT allowed to defend your own property using force - only yourself - whilst you can make a citizens arrest even if they are running away it is pretty hard to do so without falling foul of the law - you cant clip em with a baseball bat for instance or go full Tony Martin on them, the second a person is no longer an active threat to you pretty much the most you can do is hold them down)
but all that aside, you are ignoring the fact that in the ED universe we DO have the right to defend ourselves from illegal aggressors (not sure if i am allowed to defend myself from a bounty hunter if i am wanted and they are clean I am guessing i have to take the added bounty on the chin?? (fair enough imo)) but in this instance the CMDR deliberately disabled the safeguards put in place which are what give him the right to defend himself.
Even tho i am with the op and yourself on this instance in that it could possibly be better...... your premise that the game is wrong is flawed imo.... can it be better? sure, and that is why there are (good) suggestions in the suggestions forum, but it currently IS fair and a logical system as it stands now..... the fact that you want to disable crimes so you are not assisted by police is your choice... but you do so knowing that should another clean ship attack you, you have a decision to make.
My car has the ability to limit my speed so i cant go over the speed limit.... I can (and do) however turn this off... but if i do, i do it knowing that if i speed (and get caught) it is on my head.
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The present system is fine. Rabid PvP'ers can legally defend themselves against attack, so long as they have RCAM on.
The right to self-defence is completely different to the right to attack someone else... Self-defence is preventing someone from hurting you. It isn't hurting them (except where necessary to prevent hurt to yourself).
But you're confusing two different issues. You don't need to remember to turn it on again, you just need to be aware of the consequences. If you don't like the consequences, turn it on again. You are aware of what it means, you just need to deal with it appropriately.
What about the victims who have it turned off?
Where have I said I want the right to attack someone else without consequence? I not mixing up two things at all, but you seem to be. You seem to be mixing up the basic constitutional right to self defense, with some arbitrary cockpit switch.
Do you understand that I run pve activities with crimes turned off because I don't want help? I'm sure you do, so tell me again when I need to turn crimes on? When attacked. Tell me again how I know when I going to be attacked?
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Replying that I am confused or wrong, doesn't make me confused or wrong.
Again. This isn't real life. It's a dystopian virtual world with an extremely underdstandable system of who is Clean and who becomes Wanted, when. Being in full control of my faculties, and being a reasonably intelligent person, I know full well that I have a right to self-defense in the game, which is why I would fly with RCAM on, because that would make the self-defense legal.
Wait. What's the point in switching RCAM off for doing assassination missions? That doesn't affect the legality of your assassination attempt at all. If you have an assassination mission in some system and your target is clean in that system, you're going to become Wanted regardless!
Honestly, I have yet to see valid reasoning or anything other than logical fallacy.
Type 'uk self defense law' into Google, Mike. It will give you of course the highest possible level of interpretation, but you'll note that it not only includes property, but also strangers. In any case, I appreciate the challenge, that's what discussion is all about.
You keep using that word 'victim' - Nightshady wasn't a victim. This is an Appeal to Emotion fallacy.
That's a really weird statement. If you're doing a PvE assassination mission, turning off Report Crimes Against Me won't stop the police from coming - for you.
You don't have this right. It is a fallacy. If you murder someone in "self-defence", you're going to prison for manslaughter.
I'm not telling you that you need to turn it on ever. Don't. Leave it off. And accept the consequences.
A logical fallacy relies on flawed logic. I have repeatedly and using example, pointed out where your logic is flawed (for pages you thought we were asking for something were not, I'm still not sure that you get it).
Your also clearly have never done a legal assassination (the more common kind ; "assassinate pirate lord"), but please can we not recap the posts from the first 10 pages that you either didn't read, forgot about or are ignoring? As I've said several times, I get my kicks taking out giant npc targets (corvettes, anacondas and the like), in not just small ships, but ultra lightweight ones. It takes me fully 10 minutes to kill a deadly Corvette with lightweight weapons, and police are summoned (to help me) as soon as his weapons hit me.
Obviously you didn't realize that before, did it change anything for you?
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You don't have this right. It is a fallacy. If you murder someone in "self-defence", you're going to prison for manslaughter.
I'm not telling you that you need to turn it on ever. Don't. Leave it off. And accept the consequences.
No you're not, you're going to end up in court and have to prove it was self defense from attempted murder, something which fortunately doesn't need to happen in a video game.
The consequences are to enable griefers and punish victims, so I think I'll go for 'change the consequences' on this one, thanks.
And how many people have used this kind of defence successfully? It's rubbish. Murder isn't a reasonable defence, ever.