Exclusive rank system - choose your allegiance - We need your civil war

[Ziggy Stardust]

One of the oddest aspects of Elite for me has been that you have sort of rivaling mega factions and everyone and their dog is king and admiral in both of them. Plus there's a third kid who no one wants to play with. While there's an opportunity for natural animosity between members of those factions, if they were exclusive.

Story, schmory: some plonker makes a diplomatic faux pas which escalates into civil war. End of story. That was the easy bit.

This results in a boycott from both sides on the other side's preferred mode of transports. If you have rank with both major factions, you must pick a side. The side you're on will be visible to other pilots. This means losing that rank from the opposite side. Now players have grinded and spent a lot of effort getting their hands on either the Cutter or the Vette, plus effort on engineering the hell out of them and you can't just take it away from them. But there needs to be a consequence for a Fed flying a Cutter, or the other way around.

For one, it won't be serviced in a station of your home faction. Your own allegiance means it won't be serviced by stations of the opposite allegiance. Unaffiliated stations will have some, but not all the parts for servicing, since the civil war means these are no longer freely traded. Some shade places in anarchies will be able to get those parts for you, but it'll cost you.

Another consequence, if a Fed sees an Imp flying a Vette in a Fed system, he will alert his Fed buddies and you will be hunted. Traders will enjoy protection from combat vessel on their side, while face hostility from the other. There will be more opportunities for PvP than the BGS or Powerplay provides. These are in comparison rather local affairs, while this civil war would span the bubble. This also means that ganking traders from your own side will lose you rank for a long time. You are harming your own faction's strength after all. On the other hand, ganking traders from the other side will gain you reputation. In that way it limits shoot anything that moves tactics by limiting your targets, but will reward you when you gank those from the opposite faction. Hey presto, meaningful PvP which includes seal clubbing and all that nasty stuff people like so much.

So .... who is up for civil war? Go on, you know you want to.

Spoiler

 

[verminstar]

One does tend to feel a little dirty doing fed missions in a clipper I have to admit...I like feeling dirty though so its all good.

If I had to choose, Id choose the empire...dont see many feds in my home system though...better class of players here no steerage allowed unless its the work force and the chain gang ^

On a lighter note, one has recently come to embrace engineers...amazing what that caveman Todd can do with cannons and I can afford one or two rebuys, so Im a lot more game than I used to be ^

 

[Falcon_D]

What about independent pilots who don’t want to pick a side but want the Vette and Cutter?

(And FDL, Clipper, FAS, FGS, FDS, iCourier, etc.)

 

[Troy_McClure]

Yeah, the improvements in gameplay are blatantly obvious to everyone - well, nearly everyone!

NB: FYI, the Alliance have become a much more attractive proposition ever since they started offering a free dreamcatcher, tie-dye kit & hummus with every pledge.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

What about independent pilots who don’t want to pick a side but want the Vette and Cutter?

(And FDL, Clipper, FAS, FGS, FDS, iCourier, etc.)

Begs the question, how can an independent pilot be an admiral, or a king, or both?

The black market could have these ships, but they won't have all the best modules so you would need to scrounge for them and it will cost you.

 

[Jakester13]

It's always bugged me that we can waltz around, bit of empire ranking here, bit of fed ranking there... neither side seems to care whether you're working both sides or not.

I like the idea that there's a real consequence to your choice of super power, a great bunch of ideas Mr Stardust.

o7

 

[Electric Kite]

Begs the question, how can an independent pilot be an admiral, or a king, or both?

The black market could have these ships, but they won't have all the best modules so you would need to scrounge for them and it will cost you.

Really like this idea. Could be that the ships were also "hot" or had a bounty associated with them and were hence "dropped off" at said market. So its like a trade off...dont want to grind rep but want a cutter? Thats fine , buy this one on the black market but its a marked ship and perhaps hasnt got high end modules to start with. They key is having OPTIONS, something we pretty much dont have at the moment.

 

[CMDR pollycough]

Great idea's [up]

Salt may also become a commodity.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Really like this idea. Could be that the ships were also "hot" or had a bounty associated with them and were hence "dropped off" at said market. So its like a trade off...dont want to grind rep but want a cutter? Thats fine , buy this one on the black market but its a marked ship and perhaps hasnt go high end modules to start with. They key is having OPTIONS, something we pretty much dont have at the moment.

Oh, that's right. Ships have bounties now, didn't consider that. Fits the idea nicely. I also like the idea of some huge anarchy shipyard servicing shady characters.

 

[Jaiotu]

+1 to the idea.

Accepting a rank in one Navy should automatically result in the resignation from any others (along with the loss of all associated perks and permits).

 

[Snarfbuckle]

One of the oddest aspects of Elite for me has been that you have sort of rivaling mega factions and everyone and their dog is king and admiral in both of them. Plus there's a third kid who no one wants to play with. While there's an opportunity for natural animosity between members of those factions, if they were exclusive.

Story, schmory: some plonker makes a diplomatic faux pas which escalates into civil war. End of story. That was the easy bit.

This results in a boycott from both sides on the other side's preferred mode of transports. If you have rank with both major factions, you must pick a side. The side you're on will be visible to other pilots. This means losing that rank from the opposite side. Now players have grinded and spent a lot of effort getting their hands on either the Cutter or the Vette, plus effort on engineering the hell out of them and you can't just take it away from them. But there needs to be a consequence for a Fed flying a Cutter, or the other way around.

For one, it won't be serviced in a station of your home faction. Your own allegiance means it won't be serviced by stations of the opposite allegiance. Unaffiliated stations will have some, but not all the parts for servicing, since the civil war means these are no longer freely traded. Some shade places in anarchies will be able to get those parts for you, but it'll cost you.

Another consequence, if a Fed sees an Imp flying a Vette in a Fed system, he will alert his Fed buddies and you will be hunted. Traders will enjoy protection from combat vessel on their side, while face hostility from the other. There will be more opportunities for PvP than the BGS or Powerplay provides. These are in comparison rather local affairs, while this civil war would span the bubble. This also means that ganking traders from your own side will lose you rank for a long time. You are harming your own faction's strength after all. On the other hand, ganking traders from the other side will gain you reputation. In that way it limits shoot anything that moves tactics by limiting your targets, but will reward you when you gank those from the opposite faction. Hey presto, meaningful PvP which includes seal clubbing and all that nasty stuff people like so much.

So .... who is up for civil war? Go on, you know you want to.

Spoiler

http://photobooth.co/wp-content/uploads/a-gif-001.gif

While i like the idea of actually following and being part of a faction with pros and cons the latter part with what we fly in seems a bit weird.

It's basically being attacked for driving a Ford or Toyota because they are brands from different nations.

While there is a rank linked to getting one it could be something the character has earned a decade earlier during a time of peace between Fed-Imp factions.

It's basically profiling.

Imagine if every ship manufacturer got linked to a specific powerplay faction...

 

[Jakester13]

I don't see NATO flying Chinese military jets, do you? Or Russians flying USA Jets?

If I was making huge flying gunships, I'd want to not sell them to the other side's pilots.

 

[StiTch]

Story, schmory: some plonker makes a diplomatic faux pas which escalates into civil war. End of story.

I am pretty sure you've just summed up each of my relationships.

There will be more opportunities for PvP than the BGS or Powerplay provides. These are in comparison rather local affairs, while this civil war would span the bubble. This also means that ganking traders from your own side will lose you rank for a long time.

*sheepish look* so to an extent this kinda already exists. One is already welcome to play a Fed-hating Imperial and vice versa, and kill in the name of their faith. This is why I remind people not to be so hasty in assuming a murder was unmotivated; under the banner of "blaze your trail", a given CMDR can be RPing in any way they choose.

Unless there content added to the major faction war that had the mechanics to facilitate PvP it wouldn't really promote much that isn't already there. As PvP goes that is.

However...HOWEVER...pls pause here for dramatic effect...that doesn't mean I'm poohing the idea. I've always agreed that major factions should be more relevant and that involvement with one should have offsets and/or blocked interaction with the other. There's a lotta scope within factions for more developed play and it'd be really neat to see it being put to use.

 

[Genus]

One of the oddest aspects of Elite for me has been that you have sort of rivaling mega factions and everyone and their dog is king and admiral in both of them. Plus there's a third kid who no one wants to play with. While there's an opportunity for natural animosity between members of those factions, if they were exclusive.
So .... who is up for civil war? Go on, you know you want to.

I couldn't agree more, Ziggy. Putting the ships behind a non-exclusive grind-lock was daft. I'm a King and an Admiral, and it wouldn't bother me in the slightest if both disappeared in light of my allegiance to the Alliance. Although, the introduction of another grind-lock with Alliance rankings, would probably make me get into the Cutter and tow my Corvette at ramming speed into Cambridge.

Should have been the way you describe from the start, but the error is now permanent.

 

[hypervoodoo77]

What about independent pilots who don’t want to pick a side but want the Vette and Cutter?

(And FDL, Clipper, FAS, FGS, FDS, iCourier, etc.)

I think that is what the Anaconda, python, asp etc is for

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

While i like the idea of actually following and being part of a faction with pros and cons the latter part with what we fly in seems a bit weird.

It's basically being attacked for driving a Ford or Toyota because they are brands from different nations.

While there is a rank linked to getting one it could be something the character has earned a decade earlier during a time of peace between Fed-Imp factions.

It's basically profiling.

Imagine if every ship manufacturer got linked to a specific powerplay faction...

Well, I don't have to be from a particular nation to buy a Ford. I plonk down money, and buy one. In Elite you need to be Admiral! or King! to earn the privilege, so there's where the analogy goes odd.

Plus, I do like the idea that each side will turn up in battle in their own brand of ships. Makes it easy to determine friend from foe

 

[Dommarraa]

Sandro did mention a long time ago the prospect that the Superpowers would occasionally give you missions. If you didnt do them, you would lose rank.
Staying highly ranked with both would end up being too inconvenient. Possible but a real PITA.

Proper Military Career is the right solution

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

*sheepish look* so to an extent this kinda already exists. One is already welcome to play a Fed-hating Imperial and vice versa, and kill in the name of their faith. This is why I remind people not to be so hasty in assuming a murder was unmotivated; under the banner of "blaze your trail", a given CMDR can be RPing in any way they choose..

But there's no game driven motivator.

Brits hating the french (huuuuuge generalization, don't guillotine me please) is one thing, taking an Uzi and going on a rampage on the Champs Elysee is another. And aren't you guys always wanting rewards for being a bad boy? Well, there's your framework for reward. Privateers can go into rival territory to do some mischief, be rewarded and be within the narrative of Elite.

Civil war! Eat the rich, kill the poor!

My hands are tied
The billions shift from side to side
And the wars go on with brainwashed pride
For the love of God and our human rights
And all these things are swept aside
By bloody hands time can't deny
And are washed away by your genocide
And history hides the lies of our civil wars

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

One of the oddest aspects of Elite for me has been that you have sort of rivaling mega factions and everyone and their dog is king and admiral in both of them.

Yes, that's indeed strange. A lot of lore reasons have to be invented to explain that.

Plus there's a third kid who no one wants to play with. While there's an opportunity for natural animosity between members of those factions, if they were exclusive.

And FDev missed the oportunity to give those players ranks and put the Chieftain behind a rank lock.

Story, schmory…

Nice idea, not new, but nice. Personally I think something like that would be a good addition to the game - if done right. If I remember the comments of FDev correctly that's exactly what power play was intended to be (and failed).

Problem: rank locked ships
Some are not really that good. Some are too good. They are not balanced. For your idea to work the ships need to be balanced and non-rank-locked ships filling the same niche need to be introduced. Otherwise we would get what we currently have with power play - people selecting the power that offers the nicest reward (and in power play then joining the next for the next nice reward).

Then there is an other problem - lore related: Modules aren't specially designed for one ship or manufacturer. The whole system is designed that the modules are modular and can be swapped with ease between ships - even from different manufacturers. (I think DeLacy invented that, others adopted the system).

And it wouldn't be a civil war, it would be war.

 

[Aashenfox]

But they aren't really at odds with each other, let's face it. Everyone plays nicely. So why would there be a war or any need for exclusivity? Some event would need to trigger this.

Plus, as I've said many times, these ranks aren't the ranks of a professional soldier, they're a merchant or merc navy, your rank is simply a measure of your contribution. Again, they don't need to be exclusive, think of them as a measure of how much work you have done for each superpower.

As long as I can keep my ships and permits when switching sides, I have no issue with the majority of the suggestion, provided something triggers this war.