Exclusive rank system - choose your allegiance - We need your civil war

[Fenris Wolf]

One of the oddest aspects of Elite for me has been that you have sort of rivaling mega factions and everyone and their dog is king and admiral in both of them. Plus there's a third kid who no one wants to play with. While there's an opportunity for natural animosity between members of those factions, if they were exclusive.

Really like this idea Ziggy, would be brilliant if it could be implemented.

Does my memory serve me right that this is how it used to be in earlier Elite games?

Should have been the way you describe from the start, but the error is now permanent.

With you 100% there. Should've been like this on release.

 

[hypervoodoo77]

I think you should have to choose your alliance or not at all

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Problem: rank locked ships
Some are not really that good. Some are too good. They are not balanced. For your idea to work the ships need to be balanced and non-rank-locked ships filling the same niche need to be introduced. Otherwise we would get what we currently have with power play - people selecting the power that offers the nicest reward (and in power play then joining the next for the next nice reward).

Then there is an other problem - lore related: Modules aren't specially designed for one ship or manufacturer. The whole system is designed that the modules are modular and can be swapped with ease between ships - even from different manufacturers. (I think DeLacy invented that, others adopted the system).

And it wouldn't be a civil war, it would be war.

The swapable modules is a good thing. I wouldn't want to rob a player who grinded to engineer a module. And I also see that the rank locked ships from the other faction should still be flown, albeit with some consequences.

About your last point. What's so civil about war anyway?

But they aren't really at odds with each other, let's face it. Everyone plays nicely. So why would there be a war or any need for exclusivity? Some event would need to trigger this.

Plus, as I've said many times, these ranks aren't the ranks of a professional soldier, they're a merchant or merc navy, your rank is simply a measure of your contribution. Again, they don't need to be exclusive, think of them as a measure of how much work you have done for each superpower.

As long as I can keep my ships and permits when switching sides, I have no issue with the majority of the suggestion, provided something triggers this war.

That's the main issue. Totally understand not wanting to give up your ship or permits. Took a lot of effort to acquire them. So that's why I tried to at least think of a way you would still be able to fly them.

 

[Mephane]

While I agree that having both ranks is quite silly and should be changed, I have never fan of the idea of rank-locking ships in the first place. I'd rather the rank requirement be dropped (instead make it merely a reputation requirement upon purchase), and add some other rewards for navy ranks, e.g. special decals, paintjobs (this is how you should get the major faction decals for your ship and space suit), outfitting discounts and better mission rewards from stations and faction of your chosen superpower.

 

[Fenris Wolf]

While I agree that having both ranks is quite silly and should be changed, I have never fan of the idea of rank-locking ships in the first place. I'd rather the rank requirement be dropped (instead make it merely a reputation requirement upon purchase), and add some other rewards for navy ranks, e.g. special decals, paintjobs (this is how you should get the major faction decals for your ship and space suit), outfitting discounts and better mission rewards from stations and faction of your chosen superpower.

Ye Gods... I'm agreeing with Mephane as well!!!

Knew I'd have to stop drinking soon, but I didn't think meths would have this effect!

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Must be Friday

 

[CMDR_Vyse]

The "Federal" and "Imperial" ships in this case would simply be sold by the corporations that manufacture them. Independent pilots would still want access to them. Core Dynamics doesn't just sell Federal ships, and it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to simply open up use to everyone who can purchase them and strip them of their faction designations while manufacturing new designs for the Federation.

Gutamaya "Clipper" class ship. Gutamaya "Cutter" class ship. Core Dynamics "Corvette" class ship. Core Dynamics "Gunship". You get the idea.


Part of the problem with this is that we already have a setup like this with Powerplay and it's notable that the Fed powers and the Imp powers - and their pledges - war with one another constantly. So the war's already there.

 

[c00ky1970]

I like this idea!

The game should offer choices with consequence.

You want to butter up the Imperials, go ahead, but Feds are then dead to you, or vice versa. A King Admiral is someone who is more of a mercurial and neither side should really trust them.

 

[StiTch]

But there's no game driven motivator.

Brits hating the french (huuuuuge generalization, don't guillotine me please) is one thing, taking an Uzi and going on a rampage on the Champs Elysee is another. And aren't you guys always wanting rewards for being a bad boy? Well, there's your framework for reward. Privateers can go into rival territory to do some mischief, be rewarded and be within the narrative of Elite.

Civil war! Eat the rich, kill the poor!

My hands are tied
The billions shift from side to side
And the wars go on with brainwashed pride
For the love of God and our human rights
And all these things are swept aside
By bloody hands time can't deny
And are washed away by your genocide
And history hides the lies of our civil wars

IMO ED shouldn't be a game that needs to spoon feed you every moment of RP. At least one thing that I seem to be able to agree with FD on is that one's...ohmygodIcan'tbelieveI'msayingthis..."personal narrative" should be something you develop yourself in a playground of various events and galactic happenings.

And developing consistent or meaningful PvP is difficult in a playground where kids just get abducted at random because they didn't like the climbing frame and...you know what, I shouldn't come up with analogies on Friday mornings.

But to put the "however" in again, I'm 200% behind major factions adding to our galactic playground, adding a huge amount of context and engagement, a huge amount of "loyalty factor", much more developed naval missions/ranking/rewards, meaningful offsets etc...I just don't personally think it would develop PvP much, because any RP intention to blow up other factions' ships can already be exacted.

Perhaps it could add a little facilitation by doing the PP style "hostile" thing, meaning an Empire vessel can attack a Fed ship in Empire space and security forces will accept it as legit regardless, which does add a little flavour...and by all means, feel free to prove me wrong in whole on this I'd love to see myself disproved here.

 

[Vorxian]

Wait what....?

I can be a extreme right-wing fascist, and an extreme left-wing communist? at the same time?

ahhaa

I always liked being:
good an evil at the same time
hot and cold at the same time
ying and yang at the same time
and sneeze, and cough, and keep my eyes open at the same time.

Yeah it seems pretty meh, when one person can be top rank of opposed factions. Imagine being a two headed ogre, and one head is supreme leader of the Horde (in Warcraft), and the other head is elected leader of the alliance. Imagine the arguments in bed as one tries to sleep. The left hand would punch the right head, and the right hand would punch the left head in an argument...

Gamey ED is gamey!

 

[StiTch]

Yeah it seems pretty meh, when one person can be top rank of opposed factions. Imagine being a two headed ogre, and one head is supreme leader of the Horde (in Warcraft), and the other head is elected leader of the alliance. Imagine the arguments in bed as one tries to sleep. The left hand would punch the right head, and the right hand would punch the left head in an argument...

 

[znôrt]

So .... who is up for civil war? Go on, you know you want to.

Spoiler

http://photobooth.co/wp-content/uploads/a-gif-001.gif

that's one of the aspects of early wow that captivated me: the healthy faction hatred laid out right from the start, and cultivated by players by reckless ganking. it degenerated quickly, though. no game is immune to player spoiling ...

factions in elite are just ... frontier stuff: random and inconsequential. everything you want to live has to be going on in your mind, the game just provides the setting.

 

[Genus]

A King, talking to his fellow Admirals...

[video=youtube;KRPcssq-7Us]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRPcssq-7Us[/video]

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

IMO ED shouldn't be a game that needs to spoon feed you every moment of RP.

IMNSHO it should at least provide a background. Which is all this is.

At least one thing that I seem to be able to agree with FD on is that one's...ohmygodIcan'tbelieveI'msayingthis..."personal narrative" should be something you develop yourself in a playground of various events and galactic happenings.

And developing consistent or meaningful PvP is difficult in a playground where kids just get abducted at random because they didn't like the climbing frame and...you know what, I shouldn't come up with analogies on Friday mornings.

I know right. Where is Bran when you need him?

But those various events and galactic happenings is what this is about. That's what's being added here. (attempted, in theory, will never be implemented, all academic, it's Friday, shut up)

But to put the "however" in again, I'm 200% behind major factions adding to our galactic playground, adding a huge amount of context and engagement, a huge amount of "loyalty factor", much more developed naval missions/ranking/rewards, meaningful offsets etc...I just don't personally think it would develop PvP much, because any RP intention to blow up other factions' ships can already be exacted.

But now with 100% more context! And missions perhaps. And recognition by both factions.

Perhaps it could add a little facilitation by doing the PP style "hostile" thing, meaning an Empire vessel can attack a Fed ship in Empire space and security forces will accept it as legit regardless, which does add a little flavour...and by all means, feel free to prove me wrong in whole on this I'd love to see myself disproved here.

Back to the rewards then.

If you now play a Fed that hates Imps and blows up every single one he can find, the Galaxy Shrugs (shut up Jason! ). You could still play that role, but now it could be supported by missions for example.
Imagine: you roleplay that Imp hating Fed, you find a Fed in a Haz Res and engage. NPC Feds and Imps notice this and join in ... and ...

 

[Bob McBobblehead]

You're not in the proper superpower navy, you're just a civilian with an honorary title rank in that superpower.

 

[Ziljan]

This means losing that rank from the opposite side. Now players have grinded and spent a lot of effort getting their hands on either the Cutter or the Vette,

If they're going to do this, then they need to balance the ships first. Having the Cutter be OP is fine as long as you can have both ranks. But if Feds actually had to fly the Corvette, and give up their Cutters, or choose between any of the OP Imperial and UP Federal ships, then there would be a mass exodus from the Feds.

 

[Aasgard]

Begs the question, how can an independent pilot be an admiral, or a king, or both?

The black market could have these ships, but they won't have all the best modules so you would need to scrounge for them and it will cost you.

There you go. That’s what has been bugging me about the rep ranking system. Thanks Ziggy for putting it into words. +++Rep.

No way can you be aligned with the alliance or feds if you’re ranked with the empire. Double-agent spy maybe, but piloting missions would make more gameplay to remain independent or commit to a power... (rank grinding aside).

 

[StiTch]

If they're going to do this, then they need to balance the ships first. Having the Cutter be OP is fine as long as you can have both ranks. But if Feds actually had to fly the Corvette, and give up their Cutters, then there would be a mass exodus from the Feds.

It isn't the ED forums without at least one agenda being pushed everywhere possible

 

[Ziljan]

It isn't the ED forums without at least one agenda being pushed everywhere possible

Yes please do stop pushing your anti-fed agenda. Thank you!

As for me, I choose neither. I'm just a fan of a fair fight.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

If they're going to do this, then they need to balance the ships first. Having the Cutter be OP is fine as long as you can have both ranks. But if Feds actually had to fly the Corvette, and give up their Cutters, or choose between any of the OP Imperial and UP Federal ships, then there would be a mass exodus from the Feds.

Fairy nuff. best would be adding more ships which would complement each side

And I have to be honest, somewhere in my mind there's a big battle of Imp i-pods facing Fed fax machines. As it is in movies (Star Wars and such) it's immediately apparent who belongs to which side just by seeing what they're flying. None of that dreary scanny waity business.

edit: See? It already works in forums! Case in point!