Massive flaw in the new Crime and Punishment.Selling credit for real money.

[CMDR Relick]

Hello Commanders!

For clarity:

• When bounty hunters come a callin' and scan you and detect your bounty, they receive a bounty claim upon destroying your ship. This claim is equal to the bounty cost, but is capped (the cap is being increased to 2 million per jurisdiction. So even if you committed many murders and ended up with a 50 million credit bounty in a jurisdiction, the most a bounty hunter could claim upon taking you down is 2 million.

So, there is something that I feel like I need to say here. Perhaps it's been said already, I don't know, but I'm repeating it if it has:

Capping player bounties at such a small number is absolutely asinine. I simply can't wrap my head around how, in a game where you can still farm over 100,000,000cr in an hour on the mission board, you're worried about people farming this tactic for financial gains. It's ridiculous. There are MUCH easier and more efficient ways to make cash. Even if someone was to abuse the process, it wouldn't be that profitable. The only thing that this cap on bounty gains is accomplishing is ruining the potential fun and intensity of an actual PvP encounter with a wanted mass murderer. You can make seriously solid profits just running missions in a system that you've allied yourself to all the factions in, without board flipping at all. Imagine the feeling of actually managing to take down the guy who's been terrorizing the galaxy since 3.0 dropped, and has accrued massive bounties all over the galaxy, only to get a few million credits out of it. Let's not downplay how hard it's still going to be to get bounties that high with the new CONCORD system you're installing into the game.

Actually making it profitable for CMDRs to hunt and kill criminals is something that I think this game really needs. Instead of capping bounties, you should multiply them by things like notoriety level, difference in rebuys, and difference in combat ranks. Sure, still set a cap somewhere, but if I kill a guy with 50,000,000cr in bounties who's been killing noobs and traders for two weeks... I better be getting damn well more than 4-6 million...

 

[Curtis R. Prophett]

Does that in numbers mean, that someone seal-clubbing in a cutter, will have that ship wanted in all systems of that superpower in an instant?
but hunting down that commander is basicly only worth 2 million credits?

or in other words -> if i want that notroious seal clubber suffer, i have either have to
-throw my own multi-million-rebuy worth ship against him and actually WIN
-keep him somehow longer in a single place as it takes for the ATR forces to show up and decimate him. (request: someone tell me how to keep a cutter from engaging supercruise for 2 minutes+)

The 2 million cap only applies to how much a bounty hunter can earn by killing a wanted target. So, if that target racked up a 150 million Cr bounty in a particular jurisdiction, and I killed them in that jurisdiction for example, I would get 2million Crs, but they would still have to pay 150 million at that jurisdiction's detention center.

That's my understanding at least.

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

The 2 million cap only applies to how much a bounty hunter can earn by killing a wanted target. So, if that target racked up a 150 million Cr bounty in a particular jurisdiction, and I killed them in that jurisdiction for example, I would get 2million Crs, but they would still have to pay 150 million at that jurisdiction's detention center.

That's my understanding at least.

im saying nothing different,
but they only have to pay it if they actually explode.
and to get them explode, someone has to risk his ships against that target.

so the only reason to hunt down such a target, is equivalent to what "griefers" do: to make someone else suffer for my own entertainment, not for the money.

 

[Davadin]

in a game where you can still farm over 100,000,000cr in an hour on the mission board, you're worried

Mind sharing this... tactic? 100 mill per hour? is this sarcasm?


also, while i do agree i too want more than a few million when i kill grievers with 50 mill bounty who's been killing sidewinders in LHS 3447, I still think those griefers can just combat log their way out.



how are we fixing those?

 

[Darty]

Is there a cool down after each collect? Otherwise kill, rinse. Repeat.

Before getting a million credit bounty took ages. It wasnt practical to farm credits this way. Now it is.

Never under estimate how far people will go to earn real money.

It would be simpler and faster to just pay someone to do a wing mission for you... or just drop 10 meta alloy for you to pick up. A million credits is nothing.

 

[MarkAusten]

Mind sharing this... tactic? 100 mill per hour? is this sarcasm?


also, while i do agree i too want more than a few million when i kill grievers with 50 mill bounty who's been killing sidewinders in LHS 3447, I still think those griefers can just combat log their way out.



how are we fixing those?

It will be fixed just as soon as you can detect a combat log definitively.

Possibly.

 

[CMDR Relick]

I think most would like to agree with you, in principle. The reason for the cap is mainly due to its exploiting potential.

Yes, but I already addressed that. With SO many other exploits, who's going to go through all the trouble of this one? Besides, with the new system, someone has to lose a ton of credits for anyone to get some off of their bounty. The person you kill is losing tens of millions of credits in bounty fines and rebuy costs.

Mind sharing this... tactic? 100 mill per hour? is this sarcasm?


also, while i do agree i too want more than a few million when i kill grievers with 50 mill bounty who's been killing sidewinders in LHS 3447, I still think those griefers can just combat log their way out.



how are we fixing those?

No, I'm not being sarcastic. 100 million is the bottom of the barrel, too; some people can still make over 200 million in the right systems. And yeah, sure, they could just log out, but that's an entirely different issue, and most griefers aren't loggers.

 

[CMDR Relick]

I'm gonna be honest and say that I like to get my griefing fix from time to time. I don't know why, but sometimes blowing up people minding their own business is fun. Call it playing the bad guy, call it being psychotic, call it whatever you want I don't care. That being said, if I work super hard to get a huge bounty for the sake of being infamous, I WANT the people who eventually hunt me down to get a huge reward for it! It would make the game more fun, and I think we'd see tons more people getting into PvP to defend each other and hunt criminals.

 

[EdenHarold]

As a non PvP player (yet?) I totaly agree that it's too low. It should be at least double the worth of the rebuy cost of a very good combat ship.

If there must be some limitation...

 

[Athan]

Capping player bounties at such a small number is absolutely asinine. I simply can't wrap my head around how, in a game where you can still farm over 100,000,000cr in an hour on the mission board, you're worried about people farming this tactic for financial gains.

I believe the reason for this is to prevent it being used as a quick way to transfer credits to a given Cmdr. "Credit Seller" farms NPCs, or maybe risks some Cmdrs too to get a high bounty, then sells it for real money to another Cmdr, all they have to do is kill the seller, probably at this point in a small, cheap ship (obviously this will have to change in 3.0 with bounties being attached to ships).

So, it's not about it being a quick way to make money when the game is played properly.

 

[CMDR Relick]

I believe the reason for this is to prevent it being used as a quick way to transfer credits to a given Cmdr. "Credit Seller" farms NPCs, or maybe risks some Cmdrs too to get a high bounty, then sells it for real money to another Cmdr, all they have to do is kill the seller, probably at this point in a small, cheap ship (obviously this will have to change in 3.0 with bounties being attached to ships).

So, it's not about it being a quick way to make money when the game is played properly.

That's a marginally more legitimate reason, but why not just cap your bounty at 2 mil and jump to another system, and just do that across the bubble for a few days until you have 200,000,000cr in bounties across the galaxy? Bam. Easy way to 100% circumvent this "solution."

 

[EdenHarold]

(...) That being said, if I work super hard to get a huge bounty for the sake of being infamous, I WANT the people who eventually hunt me down to get a huge reward for it! It would make the game more fun, and I think we'd see tons more people getting into PvP to defend each other and hunt criminals.

Exactly !
I want to watch a livestream were CMDRs are trying to get a HUGE reward for hunting down Zarek Null for example. Or other "InFamous CMDRs" of some sort.

 

[Falcon_D]

There is always a way for credit farmers to make IRL cash. No multi-player game is excused from that.
Let the gankers do what they want and let them gold sellers do what they want. And then ban the biowaste out of the players who use this.
I want to laugh at the salt that this generates.

 

[Mohrgan]

That's a marginally more legitimate reason, but why not just cap your bounty at 2 mil and jump to another system, and just do that across the bubble for a few days until you have 200,000,000cr in bounties across the galaxy? Bam. Easy way to 100% circumvent this "solution."

You can only collect the Bounty from the Controlling Faction of the system the criminal was destroyed in. Even a KWS only shows the largest of the extra-system bounties on a ship. And, in addition the criminal would be loosing far more than the capped bounties. They would still have to pay up all of the Bounties/Fines accrued in those systems. If the seller/criminal is willing to bankrupt his character, to make a RL few bucks, I think the system covers the bases well.

Because, how hard is it to make Credits in Elite? If you're willing to pay RL money for Credits, you'd be perfectly willing to take advantage of the current get-rich-quick scheme out there. Selling bounties doesn't seem like a real problem concerning the new C&P system. Good try though.

Undermining the incoming C&P system seems to be a full on effort these days. The days of: "We don;t fear your consequences", seem to be ending.

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

There is always a way for credit farmers to make IRL cash. No multi-player game is excused from that.
Let the gankers do what they want and let them gold sellers do what they want. And then ban the biowaste out of the players who use this.
I want to laugh at the salt that this generates.

i want to make clear

for me 2Millions are to low -
but the full bounty would be to high,
as gankers are usually not lone guys - and they could lower their "rebuy" penalty, by killing each others. (you get the bounty on my head and i get yours -> noone has to pay the interstellar factors)

You can only collect the Bounty from the Controlling Faction of the system the criminal was destroyed in. Even a KWS only shows the largest of the extra-system bounties on a ship. And, in addition the criminal would be loosing far more than the capped bounties. They would still have to pay up all of the Bounties/Fines accrued in those systems. If the seller/criminal is willing to bankrupt his character, to make a RL few bucks, I think the system covers the bases well.

Because, how hard is it to make Credits in Elite? If you're willing to pay RL money for Credits, you'd be perfectly willing to take advantage of the current get-rich-quick scheme out there. Selling bounties doesn't seem like a real problem concerning the new C&P system. Good try though.

Undermining the incoming C&P system seems to be a full on effort these days. The days of: "We don;t fear your consequences", seem to be ending.

well, with the current money making schemes,
i would believe there are gold traders selling accounts with "billions" pre-farmed.

also, "bankrupcy" is not problem, since someone exploiting the bounty system for money making, would simply get that notority and bounty accumulated with a small ship and pay it off in 2 million increments.
with the 2million cap,
and the major faction bounty as described, you wont have much more then 6million bounty on your head (2 for each) and dunno how independants work in here.

 

[Athan]

Indeed it's become much easier to make large amounts of credits quickly since the 1 million Cmdr bounty collection cap was introduced. Obviously FDev have slightly admitted this in raising the cap to 2 million in 3.0. It might be time to just remove it altogether, but FDev likely have a better idea of how much credit selling is actually an issue than we do.

To be honest, if I was looking for a leg up in ED I'd probably just want to buy a whole account and that would be much easier to farm, if it's just about credits on the account (ships are credits for this purpose).

 

[CMDR Relick]

You can only collect the Bounty from the Controlling Faction of the system the criminal was destroyed in. Even a KWS only shows the largest of the extra-system bounties on a ship. And, in addition the criminal would be loosing far more than the capped bounties. They would still have to pay up all of the Bounties/Fines accrued in those systems. If the seller/criminal is willing to bankrupt his character, to make a RL few bucks, I think the system covers the bases well.

Because, how hard is it to make Credits in Elite? If you're willing to pay RL money for Credits, you'd be perfectly willing to take advantage of the current get-rich-quick scheme out there. Selling bounties doesn't seem like a real problem concerning the new C&P system. Good try though.

Undermining the incoming C&P system seems to be a full on effort these days. The days of: "We don;t fear your consequences", seem to be ending.

Not anymore. In 3.0 when you KWS someone, you get their bounties from everywhere.

Good try though.

 

[Mohrgan]

Not anymore. In 3.0 when you KWS someone, you get their bounties from everywhere.

Good try though.

That's not what Sandro explained in the Livestream. With the changes to the C&P system, so came changes to the KWS. Look it up.

P.S. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-The-Kill-Warrant-Scanner!?highlight=save+KWS

 

[CMDR Relick]

Indeed it's become much easier to make large amounts of credits quickly since the 1 million Cmdr bounty collection cap was introduced. Obviously FDev have slightly admitted this in raising the cap to 2 million in 3.0. It might be time to just remove it altogether, but FDev likely have a better idea of how much credit selling is actually an issue than we do.

To be honest, if I was looking for a leg up in ED I'd probably just want to buy a whole account and that would be much easier to farm, if it's just about credits on the account (ships are credits for this purpose).

Are there honestly people that think farming each other with 1,000,000cr bounties is the best way to make cash...? Or are you referencing how people used to farm each other before the cap was introduced...? (Please be the latter Please be the latter Please be the latter Please be the latter Please be the latter Please be the latter Please be the latter Please be the latter Please be the latter Please be the latter Please be the latter) Farming each other for 1, or even 2 million credit bounties has got to be slower than trading lol.

 

[Athan]

Are there honestly people that think farming each other with 1,000,000cr bounties is the best way to make cash...? Or are you referencing how people used to farm each other before the cap was introduced...? (Please be the latter Please be the latter Please be the latter Please be the latter Please be the latter Please be the latter Please be the latter Please be the latter Please be the latter Please be the latter Please be the latter) Farming each other for 1, or even 2 million credit bounties has got to be slower than trading lol.

No I meant that since that cap was introduced all the other ways to make credits have gotten easier, and return much more. Thus the cap likely has less effect now than when originally introduced. The "since" in my sentence wasn't meant to be read as a "because".