PvP Why PvP is not popular in Elite Dangerous?

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Would be awesome if wars could only be fought in faction supplied SLF's. You launch from the cap ship and go! Pick your load out poison (much like CQC) and let your skills determine your kills.

Z...

indeed. it is why warzones should NOT be using our ships and indeed if a random turns up in his ship he should be told that this is a military operation please buzz off.But IF warzones were about taking a mission from the board , and we were given a ship (and as our reputation in that particuluar skirmish progresses and we are trusted more perhaps we are given better ships) then hell yes i would be all over that, and yes i would give it a go in open.

1 war, we all start with zero rep. for the course of that particular skirmish we are locked to the side we pciked, and as long as we are fighting in it, we hsve to make do with the ships we are given.

THAT is the kind of PvP i would get involved in............. that said of course exactly the same mechanism would work in PvE too, so it would not be about locking this to open only, but it would certainly encourage me to do these in open..... but for those who are not interested even then in open, that is cool too.

 

[Zeeman]

indeed. it is why warzones should NOT be using our ships and indeed if a random turns up in his ship he should be told that this is a military operation please buzz off.But IF warzones were about taking a mission from the board , and we were given a ship (and as our reputation in that particuluar skirmish progresses and we are trusted more perhaps we are given better ships) then hell yes i would be all over that, and yes i would give it a go in open.

1 war, we all start with zero rep. for the course of that particular skirmish we are locked to the side we pciked, and as long as we are fighting in it, we hsve to make do with the ships we are given.

THAT is the kind of PvP i would get involved in............. that said of course exactly the same mechanism would work in PvE too, so it would not be about locking this to open only, but it would certainly encourage me to do these in open..... but for those who are not interested even then in open, that is cool too.

Yup, exactly, I'd still get owned by skilled pilots, but at least I have a chance. Not being able to tank damage also teaches you how to evade. A mechanism like what you describe would be incredible fun - imagine if the war for Lugh had been fought that way?

Z...

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Yup, exactly, I'd still get owned by skilled pilots, but at least I have a chance. Not being able to tank damage also teaches you how to evade. A mechanism like what you describe what be incredible fun - imagine if the war for Lugh had been fought that way?

Z...

indeed... and because it is a military operation, ships are lost in a war it is part of life...... and it would be the military taking the hit on the costs, not the pilots federation insurance, so it would sit well with my role play needs too.

to go back to op, why do I not PvP in ED... .because it flies against the lore and has no part in the Elite role play.

but if the military was fleshed out properly... that part of it at least WOULD get me doing *some* PvP in open....... my day to day gaming is unlikely to tease me back into open... but baby steps etc

 

[Theodrid]

I'd agree that PvP has an image problem, but it's the result of poor game design in the past rather than the player's fault.

When in the name of all that is holy are some of the PVP players going to take at least partial responsibility on this? Could Frontier have done more? - yes, without a shadow of a doubt, but absolving folks who go around mindlessly blowing up every hollow box they see of any responsibility is ridiculous.

This 'it's all Frontiers fault I blew up a noobwinder in Eravate' is well past it's sell by date.

 

[Han_Zen]

indeed. it is why warzones should NOT be using our ships and indeed if a random turns up in his ship he should be told that this is a military operation please buzz off.But IF warzones were about taking a mission from the board , and we were given a ship (and as our reputation in that particuluar skirmish progresses and we are trusted more perhaps we are given better ships) then hell yes i would be all over that, and yes i would give it a go in open.

1 war, we all start with zero rep. for the course of that particular skirmish we are locked to the side we pciked, and as long as we are fighting in it, we hsve to make do with the ships we are given.

THAT is the kind of PvP i would get involved in............. that said of course exactly the same mechanism would work in PvE too, so it would not be about locking this to open only, but it would certainly encourage me to do these in open..... but for those who are not interested even then in open, that is cool too.

This sounds like fun.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

When in the name of all that is holy are some of the PVP players going to take at least partial responsibility on this? Could Frontier have done more? - yes, without a shadow of a doubt, but absolving folks who go around mindlessly blowing up every hollow box they see of any responsibility is ridiculous.

This 'it's all Frontiers fault I blew up a noobwinder in Eravate' is well past it's sell by date.

Yeah, noticed that too. It's ironic that somewhere along the post he went

Players refuse to take responsibility for their own safety,

Seems like refusing to take responsibility is not limited by play style but a universal issue

 

[CMDR Carbo]

For me, I think PvP in ED is too hard just to even have competitive gear. If I play Halo, or COD - sure, certain weapons give me an advantage - a better scope, faster rate of fire, suppressed muzzle, grenade launcher - whatever, but no matter what weapon you have, if I get a clean shot at your head with the lowest pistol, or walk up behind you and smack you int her back of the head - you're dead. Skill is a bigger factor than your equipment - though better gear helps.

In ED, if I don't have 2000MJ of shields, reverb cascade rails, high yield engineered shells, long range advanced PA's (etc) and G5 dirty drives, I may as well not turn up. It's not about skill anymore. And, to be honest, a 45 minute shield draining match is not really much fun. I'm not saying the best guys aren't skilled, they most certainly are, but turn up in a mere A-rated FDL, and they are toast, regardless.

We have a good PvP option (CQC), if they would ditch the bonus stuff, it would be even better, but seeing as it's not part of the main game... Why bother?

Would be awesome if wars could only be fought in faction supplied SLF's. You launch from the cap ship and go! Pick your load out poison (much like CQC) and let your skills determine your kills.

Z...

I completely agree, and unfortunately, NONE OF THIS will be addressed with the changes to Engineers in 3.0, which is incredibly sad.
They reduced the RNG, which is good for hardcore PvPers, preventing them form having to do hundreds of rolls, but the grind and power creep wasn't reduced, in contrary, it was made worse.

I sincerely doubt these changes will get more people into PvP and thus into Open. Despite FDEV saying that was one of their main goals.

A complete failure if you ask me. They should make getting into PvP easier, not harder, for non-PvP folks.

I'm extremely disappointed in Sandro and the current head development team.

 

[AbsinthSvK]

indeed. it is why warzones should NOT be using our ships and indeed if a random turns up in his ship he should be told that this is a military operation please buzz off.But IF warzones were about taking a mission from the board , and we were given a ship (and as our reputation in that particuluar skirmish progresses and we are trusted more perhaps we are given better ships) then hell yes i would be all over that, and yes i would give it a go in open.

1 war, we all start with zero rep. for the course of that particular skirmish we are locked to the side we pciked, and as long as we are fighting in it, we hsve to make do with the ships we are given.

THAT is the kind of PvP i would get involved in............. that said of course exactly the same mechanism would work in PvE too, so it would not be about locking this to open only, but it would certainly encourage me to do these in open..... but for those who are not interested even then in open, that is cool too.

that is worst suggestion i hear last years.
You just throw away all game mechanism and make complete different MOBA game.

not using own ship is one of the main reason i dont play CQC. Why game offers modules, engineers, ships, multicrew when you throw away all these things?
Developers try to add more complex things but on the other hand they blocking them?

 

[MarkAusten]

not being able coexisting because game doesn't support it, all your reasons should be fixed when they add proper game mechanics. Gankers, griefers, mindless shooting exists because game allow it.

Frankly, I don't see how you, or anyone else, can change that. No matter what you do with the game people will always be free to mindlessly shoot (etc). Perhaps if you changed the game to something else entirely, but then it would not be Elite. Do any of the other games so often mentioned stop you from being an a-hole? I don't know myself since I only play Elite.

I would be happy even with removing solo mode and add pvp arenas around galaxy where only players can be killed. But its only dream because they never do that. Most of negative reviews on this game contain complains about empty map and repetitive game play, even when play a lot of people but they are hidden. Thats counterproductive isnt?

No matter what the game, no matter how good the game is, there will always be negative reviews. The point is what proportion of the player base feels that way. If only 1% complain, then no problem. If 99% complain, then there is a big problem.

That FDev do not change things every time there is a complaint about a particular part of the game suggests that most of the time the proportion of complaints is not that high.

Despite what some players believe, FDev are not stupid. If there were a high proportion of the player base complaining then they would do something about it.

 

[frostypaw]

Thats counterproductive isnt?

Yes. That's why people are willing to entirely sacrifice the entire PvP side if it means FDev can concentrate on the rest of the game rather than running around cleaning up after a bunch of people constantly saying "OH WHOOPS sorry CAREBEARS I couldn't help it because these incompetent developers who don't know good game design if it slapped them in their faces left it possible for me to shoot another player - though of course it's the other player's fault really they should have been ready there's plenty of guides out there and the GRIND oh the GRIND and it's all terrible frankly - wait let me go leave a Steam review complaining about how there aren't any people in OPEN cos all the CAREBEARS are hiding in the other MODES and the game is just terrible"

It's not the most positive part of the community.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

that is worst suggestion i hear last years.
You just throw away all game mechanism and make complete different MOBA game.

not using own ship is one of the main reason i dont play CQC. Why game offers modules, engineers, ships, multicrew when you throw away all these things?
Developers try to add more complex things but on the other hand they blocking them?

well, that is the thing about opinions, we all have them (and they all stink) , it is a way of having "PvP" in a manner which makes sense within the context of the elite back story... i am not saying replace standard PvP in our own ships if you want it.... but in military operations you use military supplied equipment. it sounds plausible to me and would still be part of the main game, unlike CQC.

but to each their own..... OP asked why (some) players do not pvp in ED. i explained why I dont (there are no players in my game just pilots federation members who are part of MY own faction so why would i attack them without a damn good legal reason?)

I offered a solution to get me back, provide a lore friendly framework for players of the same faction fighting each other which would not annoy the PF leaders (as it is not coming out of their insurance and explains why ships are somewhat more disposible), removes the rebuy costs (without breaking the lore) and is still part of the main game. FD are free to ignore (i expect they will as it involves more work).

 

[AbsinthSvK]

Despite what some players believe, FDev are not stupid. If there were a high proportion of the player base complaining then they would do something about it.

player base these days are "old players" which stays over years and they enjoy game as it is. When someone come with new idea of course that is minority and hammered by old players.
When they desire is to satisfied old players then yes, ignore new players and keep adding ships and textures (because it is cool).

You can see that behavior all around forum, just look at forum thread about new textures or new ship. Its hilarious how many people wait for placebo updates instead of real game changes/fixes.

 

[MarkAusten]

player base these days are "old players" which stays over years and they enjoy game as it is. When someone come with new idea of course that is minority and hammered by old players.
When they desire is to satisfied old players then yes, ignore new players and keep adding ships and textures (because it is cool).

You can see that behavior all around forum, just look at forum thread about new textures or new ship. Its hilarious how many people wait for placebo updates instead of real game changes/fixes.

If you consider the vast number of real game changes/fixes that have occurred in Elite since the beginning, I think that this shows that the 'old player base' is very much in favour of a lot of changes. Just not all of them. And I am sure that there have been a lot of ideas from the 'old player base' that were hammered as well.

Blaming the old guard is futile at best and completely wrong at worst.

Are you a new player?

 

[Afterglow [SecB]]

the so-called "old players" made this game possible. PvP was not an issue at the time and probably is not.

 

[MarkAusten]

the so-called "old players" made this game possible. PvP was not an issue at the time and probably is not.

Indeed.

 

[AbsinthSvK]

Are you a new player?

no, but view me as the new. Because i just come back time to time to see changes. Not playing it much because of lack open play features and bad mechanics.

as i see over years, developers adding for me hilarious, unimportant, useless things. Sorry but put resources for textures, planet colors, new ships when there are still big problems is funny. Money exploits, unbalance ships, combat logging, instance bugs,....
Question: Why PvP is not popular in Elite Dangerous? is only top of the iceberg and every problem are reflected in PvP, too.

the so-called "old players" made this game possible. PvP was not an issue at the time and probably is not.

true, but its not how progress working.

 

[HBK]

Because the only popular PvP games are ... PvP games. Yea shocking I know.

Elite (as most "MMOs") is a PvE game where hurting other players is allowed. This doens't make it a PvP game. It just make it a game where PKing is allowed. Of course that means that under the right conditions, like-minded players can organize PvP events. But that doesn't make Elite a PvP game.

PvP game design is a field in itself. And Elite has obviously never been designed with PvP in mind (or so I hope for the game designer in charge).

 

[MarkAusten]

no, but view me as the new. Because i just come back time to time to see changes. Not playing it much because of lack open play features and bad mechanics.

as i see over years, developers adding for me. Sorry but put resources for textures, planet colors, new ships when there are still big problems is funny. Money exploits, unbalance ships, combat logging, instance bugs,....
Question: Why PvP is not popular in Elite Dangerous? is only top of the iceberg and every problem are reflected in PvP, too.

For you they are ' hilarious, unimportant, useless things'. That's a fair point. But to others they are 'fun, important and useful things'. As for the 'big problems' you mention, big money (I can't call it an exploit since to me it is not) will always be present one way or another and my opinion is that it should be. Unbalanced ships, I believe that ships should be unbalanced. There should not be perfectly balanced ships in the game, there should always be an element of mismatch somewhere. Combat Logging, nothing to be done about this until a foolproof way to detect deliberate combat logging is created. Instance bugs? Most of these are Internet related and no amount of code will be able to do anything about it especially when playing in a 'real-time' online game.

So, of those 'big problems' two are nothing to do with Elite per se, one in my opinion is not a problem and the other is minor.

You and I have different opinions about what is wrong or not with the game. Neither of us is necessarily correct.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

as i see over years, developers adding for me hilarious, unimportant, useless things. Sorry but put resources for textures, planet colors, new ships when there are still big problems is funny.

Using that logic, any effort put into combat is a waste of time. Why? Because I don't combat. Unlike you however I do realise this is rather important for other players. This is not my game you see. You have to realise the game needs to cater to players besides you. For me as an explorer, the textures and colours of planets are one of the most important features that will make me install Elite again when 3.0 is out.

 

[AbsinthSvK]

Not playing the game is the best what you can do in your situation as this game is clearly not for you - and never will be. Better get over it before you end up being the bitter vet.

Game is not for me?
Spaceships- check
Open mode- check / broken
Space - check
Dog fights - check
RPG elements - check

this game is for me but it is broken.

bye then, see you in next update maybe they start fixing something. Enjoy broken game and keep defending them.