PvP Why PvP is not popular in Elite Dangerous?

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

And here you are- still trying to blame PvE players who choose to play in Solo/PG's for Open's woes... still trying to blame the existence of the mode system.

Why am I not surprised?

They arent PVEers if they are intentionally effecting others now are they?

YOu do all the PVP or none at all.

You cant have your cake and eat it too.

 

[frostypaw]

Ganking is not really pvp though is it, PvP requires some form of challenge or any pvp'er worth the name would get bored very fast.

Indeed which is why folk like that90skid's excuses/falsifications about how ganking/etc only happens because of the three modes such an obvious lie.

They're not after a challenge, they're just after lolz. Everything else is secondary - whole game can burn down and be left in tatters doesn't matter. Can prove it to yourself anytime by flying through a CG in an armed capable PvP build then again in a trade-only build in a smaller ship and see which gets more attention.

Once FD accept the manipulative mentality of that side and stop pandering to them the game can develop much more smoothly, until then the toy throwing and tantrums will rule and large portions of dev time will be used up balancing and rebalancing to cope with them.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Indeed which is why folk like that90skid's excuses/falsifications about how ganking/etc only happens because of the three modes such an obvious lie.

They're not after a challenge, they're just after lolz. Everything else is secondary - whole game can burn down and be left in tatters doesn't matter. Can prove it to yourself anytime by flying through a CG in an armed capable PvP build then again in a trade-only build in a smaller ship and see which gets more attention.

Once FD accept the manipulative mentality of that side and stop pandering to them the game can develop much more smoothly, until then the toy throwing and tantrums will rule and large portions of dev time will be used up balancing and rebalancing to cope with them.

Thats a buncha nonsense. Complete and utter nonsense.

Even sandro recognizes the risks from open solo and private.

You guy are something else. I swear,

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=237822&p=3680532&viewfull=1#post3680532

READ IT. Anything he said before or after does NOT change what he says here.

Get with the program people and use your gimballed eyes.

 

[Ktonos]

I'd say the game itself would become less popular. Not everyone bought ED for pew-pew... so if there were no choices except for pew-pew whether PvP would become more popular or not would become irrelevant as a question as well.

Are you saying that playing in open provides no choices except for pew-pew? This is an exaggeration I think. Yes, not everyone bought ED for PvP. What you are actually saying is more or less that "if PvP becomes more central to the game I will not like the game". Ok, thats fine. But the question of this thread is what would make PvP more central to the game. And imho unified open, disability to clog would make that so.

 

[Robert Maynard]

A portion of Sandro's original post on the topic of an Open PowerPlay Bonus (11th March 2016 @ 19:15):

And since I'm in the mood for pulling hand grenades , here's another thing to chew on: I'm currently rather taken by the concept of a success multiplier for Commanders in Open Play. this modifier would not improve personal gains from power play activities, but it would magnify the effectiveness of a power's actions (expand, oppose, fortify, undermine). And the effect would probably be significant.

My thinking for this? At the moment, any way I slice it, I can't come to any conclusion other than Commanders in Open Play have a tougher time than those in Private Groups or Solo. So the playing field is basically uneven as it stands and in this case, maybe change could make things better.

Sandro has commented since on the topic of his musings on an Open PowerPlay Bonus (15th March 2016 @ 18:41):

Hello Commanders!

A couple of clarifications:

* This change, which remember is nothing more than a suggestion at this point, would have no effect on personal gain. It would affect success values for expansion, fortification and undermining only, not the merits you earned.

* It does not, and is not, meant to be a panacea to make the actual activities of Powerplay better. It's best to think of it as activity agnostic. That's not to say that we don't want to improve the activities (we do!), just that this is not aimed at that.

* The reason this benefit would only apply to Open as opposed to in Private Groups is fairly clear I think: we have no way to control distribution in Private Groups. Folk could start a Private Group where everyone was pledged to a single power. This would effectively then be Solo in terms of dealing with the potential threat of other Commanders.

* I would not want to introduce this into any aspect of the game except Powerplay because Powerplay is the only aspect of the game that explicitly uses the concept of adversarial multiplayer, as opposed to the more vague ways that minor factions operate.

Hope this info helps.

Q&A Live Stream - 6th December 2016 @ 19:00 (Engineers / Combat / Powerplay) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uetVzNINdKU;t=26m40s

The first one's from Robert Maynard and he's saying "Has the pin been pulled on the hand grenade I posted in a Collusion Piracy thread?". Just for context this was, I was musing out loud about potentially Open Play Powerplay having some benefit to success over and above Private Groups and Solo - I just want to reiterate that was just me musing, we're not going to do that at the moment, there are no plans to do it, but it is still an interesting thought, nothing's ever completely off the table but nothing to announce at the moment.

 

[Urazz]

Indeed which is why folk like that90skid's excuses/falsifications about how ganking/etc only happens because of the three modes such an obvious lie.

They're not after a challenge, they're just after lolz. Everything else is secondary - whole game can burn down and be left in tatters doesn't matter. Can prove it to yourself anytime by flying through a CG in an armed capable PvP build then again in a trade-only build in a smaller ship and see which gets more attention.

Once FD accept the manipulative mentality of that side and stop pandering to them the game can develop much more smoothly, until then the toy throwing and tantrums will rule and large portions of dev time will be used up balancing and rebalancing to cope with them.

I agree pretty much. The murder hobos that just gank anyone aren't really PVPers. They just go after the weak and pretty much got no penalty for it. They aren't pirating or anything like that, they just kill people for no real good reason.

 

[Theodrid]

READ IT. Anything he said before or after does NOT change what he says here.

Considering, as RM has posted above, he has commented on that exact thing since what he says does have a bearing, and considering that grenade he dropped was 2 years ago hows that working out for ya?

 

[Roybe]

Thats a buncha nonsense. Complete and utter nonsense.

Even sandro recognizes the risks from open solo and private.

You guy are something else. I swear,

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=237822&p=3680532&viewfull=1#post3680532

READ IT. Anything he said before or after does NOT change what he says here.

Get with the program people and use your gimballed eyes.

A portion of Sandro's original post on the topic of an Open PowerPlay Bonus (11th March 2016 @ 19:15):



Sandro has commented since on the topic of his musings on an Open PowerPlay Bonus (15th March 2016 @ 18:41):



Q&A Live Stream - 6th December 2016 @ 19:00 (Engineers / Combat / Powerplay) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uetVzNINdKU;t=26m40s

LOL! Your hope is based on the idea that a dev says something once and future clarifications don't count?!? Now THAT is funny.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

A portion of Sandro's original post on the topic of an Open PowerPlay Bonus (11th March 2016 @ 19:15):



Sandro has commented since on the topic of his musings on an Open PowerPlay Bonus (15th March 2016 @ 18:41):



Q&A Live Stream - 6th December 2016 @ 19:00 (Engineers / Combat / Powerplay) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uetVzNINdKU;t=26m40s

Like I said, what he said before or after does NOT change the facts that OPEN is more dangerous when it comes to PVP activities in the game.

Nothing more nothing less, thats a fact jack.

And thats the problem here.

And thats 2016.

How big is mobius? Why does mobius exist. BECAUSE OPEN IS MORE DANGEROUS.

Why do people use solo and private for BGS PVP and Powerplay PVP. WHen you're fighting against other commanders?

BECAUSE ITS MORE DANGEROUS, you get more cargo cargo jump range everything.

Like this all proven mathematically you CANNOT disprove what I am saying here.

Jesus christ.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

READ IT. Anything he said before or after does NOT change what he says here.

Reality would seem to show otherwise.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Reality would seem to show otherwise.

Hows this for reality https://gyazo.com/52c700412aa955525432d73170ca5507

 

[GreyAreaUK]

How big is mobius? Why does mobius exist.

For the same reason that Gold Seats exist at some cinemas - so you can get your entertainment without having to put up with children.

Hows this for reality https://gyazo.com/52c700412aa955525432d73170ca5507

I don't recognise that domain, so there's no way in hell I'm clicking that link.

And calm down. You're starting to come across as a little unhinged.

 

[frostypaw]

Am I the only one who finds it utterly hilarious that the big PvP bros all have a set of bookmarks and screengrabs of reddit posts/websites that they keep to make these arguments, carefully assembling all the little shreds of evidence that actually back up their position from over years into a tidy pile that they think proves their point?

Meanwhile everyone else has the whole warehouse of content going the other way.

*makes new folder* *renames it 'eliteForumPvPammo'*

How big is mobius? Why does mobius exist. BECAUSE OPEN IS MORE DANGEROUS.

Nah it's to avoid attitudes like this.

Jesus christ.

 

[Axel Deathrage]

why did i even attempt to read this thread

 

[Jenner]

Settle down peeps. Let's keep some perspective please.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

For the same reason that Gold Seats exist at some cinemas - so you can get your entertainment without having to put up with children.

You do realize frontier wants people shooting each other. Have you even watched their streams?

The only children I see here are the ones fighting against it.

Which is really funny. BEcause you guys fighting against it are the ones that have caused the problem in the first place.


I'll explain,

You just called people shooting others children, and yet you dont want the modes to be changed to give meaning to PVP.

So instead because of YOUR GUYS' ACTIONS in not changing the modes to give PVP a viable outset in this game.

PVP is only for salt mining. Or player created places like San tu.

When Sandro HIMSELF has shown and Expressed wanting to change that stuff several times.

And you guys fight against it, creating the toxicity we see today.

You want to know whos responsible for all the SALT? ITS YOU.

So, Is that what you guys want is salt? And toxicity in this game? Or would you rather give it definition.

Because thats all we got right now. And if SALT is you guys want by not fixing the modes. Then its salt you guys are going to get.

I mean just use your brains for 10 minutes and think about it.

 

[MarkAusten]

How big is mobius? Why does mobius exist. BECAUSE OPEN IS MORE DANGEROUS.

Er, no. It's because the players in Mobius don't want to fight other players. Nothing more, nothing less. That shouted bit I quoted from your post is just your speculation on their motives, nothing else.

Or that's what I understood their rationale to mean.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

You're starting to come across as a little unhinged.

Starting! [haha]

why did i even attempt to read this thread

You enjoy challenges

 

[Sylveria]

Are you saying that playing in open provides no choices except for pew-pew? This is an exaggeration I think. Yes, not everyone bought ED for PvP. What you are actually saying is more or less that "if PvP becomes more central to the game I will not like the game". Ok, thats fine. But the question of this thread is what would make PvP more central to the game. And imho unified open, disability to clog would make that so.

I'm saying that Open is inherently pew-pew by its nature.

No, that's no an exaggeration- that's actually the prime basis people like to use for their defacto argument of "PvP consent", is it not? "You log into Open, you're consenting to PvP."

I know exactly what the question of the thread is- and if you read my previous comments, you'll see that I'm also fully aware of quite a few more details that complicate the situation instead of oversimplifying it to the "modes". The modes have absolutely nothing to do with the reason why people don't PvP in ED. The modes exist so that those who want to engage in PvP may do so, those who want to engage in PvE may do so, and those who want something in between, may do so. I completely and thoroughly disagree with the "fragmenting the player base" theory- because it's based on the assumption that everyone wants to engage in the same style of game play. They don't.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Er, no. It's because the players in Mobius don't want to fight other players. Nothing more, nothing less. That shouted bit I quoted from your post is just your speculation on their motives, nothing else.

Or that's what I understood their rationale to mean.

No they go there, every time something bad happens to them. Or in BGS stuff when people are capable of PVPing they use max jump range and no defenses removing the need for any engineering.

Like how many cutter pilots have you guys came across with naked builds for max cargo in OPEN at a CG and you see and hear them complain on the forums.

That build works in private and solo. It DOES NOT work in OPEN.

Hello? Thats a cutter pilot. NOT A NEW PERSON!