Recommended HOTAS upgrade

[JesusOnEez]

Hi all,

Just wondering if anyone has any recommendations for an upgrade to my Thrustmaster T-Flight X. Noting that I absolutely want twist to yaw. I love this joystick, but want's something a bit less plastic squeaky and with smoother movement of the stick and thrust controls.

Ideally don't want to spend an absolute bomb.

Thanks in advance!

 

[heretowatch]

What's an absolute bomb? I've had a T.16000m FCS + throttle for a year now and the throttle has held up well. I'm talking to TM right now to see if they'll replace the stick because the twist axis is shot. So I'm a little disappointed in the durability of this stick.

I placed an order for a VKB Gladiator mk2, but it won't ship until March because of the Chinese New Year. Looks like a nice affordable stick with twist, so we'll see!

My friend has had a Saitek X52 from before they were bought by Logitech and swears by it. Online reviews for the new models aren't too encouraging....

 

[Shayde]

I went with the Thrustmaster 16000M FCS HOTAS. I'd previously had and X52 Pro, which was great, but after 4 years of use in Elite the spring broke that controlled the twist (yaw). I considered just buying another X52 Pro but, as above, had also heard bad reports of the stick since Logitech took over.

the 16000M appears to have been specifically designed for Elite, or at least had some consultation with FD about what would be needed. It's very nice indeed. The joystick feels very solid. The throttle is a little unusual in its movement in that it slides forward and backward on rails, rather than pivoting. This is fine, but I found it to be not too smooth at times, and most people end up putting some form of grease on the rails to make it smoother.

An advantage is that the cost isn't too bad, with a further bonus that another throttle or joystick could be bought separately should either break. I've used it for about 4 months now and I'm very happy with it.

I was considering going full monty and buying the Warthog, but as you probably know the joystick in that setup has no twist/yaw. That was the main factor is my settling for the far less expensive 16000M FCS

 

[the100thmonkey]

Wait until Virpil release the Constellation Delta. It looks amazing, and by all accounts won't be too expensive (although this obviously depends on your definition of expensive.)

You can always keep the throttle unit from the T-Flight if that doesn't have a problem.

 

[Riverside]

T-16000 HOTAS is an upgrade, it offers finer pitch & way control & way more buttons (including an analogue hat on the throttle) but:

There is no built in throttle detent, so using full range is harder (or use a physical mod),
12 of the 16 buttons on the stick are not in a handy location.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Wait until Virpil release the Constellation Delta. It looks amazing, and by all accounts won't be too expensive (although this obviously depends on your definition of expensive.)

You can always keep the throttle unit from the T-Flight if that doesn't have a problem.

That is what I will be waiting for before I upgrade. I will get the constellation and the Thrustmaster TWCS throttle to go with it. They seem like a great match.

 

[JesusOnEez]

Yup, the Warthog and Rhino are out of my price range, but the X52 Pro and T16000 look a little more in my bracket. I'll read some reviews and see what's what. I've had a quick look at the Virpil...time I'm ready to buy it may have been out and reviewed so will be an option.

Thanks all.

 

[DragonIV]

Wait until Virpil release the Constellation Delta. It looks amazing, and by all accounts won't be too expensive (although this obviously depends on your definition of expensive.)

You can always keep the throttle unit from the T-Flight if that doesn't have a problem.

No, you can't. At least, not without serious rewiring. The T-Flight's throttle and joystick are a joined pair, single usb connector for the two. It's the T16000M FCS that has the separate throttle and stick.

/ own both
// T16000M is very sweet, especially once you re-grease the throttle properly with Nyogel 767A dampening grease.

 

[andrewg_oz]

There is no built in throttle detent, so using full range is harder (or use a physical mod),
12 of the 16 buttons on the stick are not in a handy location.

If you don't mind voiding the warranty and are handy with a soldering iron, both those issues can be solved: https://imgur.com/a/wYKq7

 

[GunnerBill]

No, you can't. At least, not without serious rewiring. The T-Flight's throttle and joystick are a joined pair, single usb connector for the two. It's the T16000M FCS that has the separate throttle and stick.

/ own both
// T16000M is very sweet, especially once you re-grease the throttle properly with Nyogel 767A dampening grease.

Nyogel is very expensive and often hard to get.

I've been using this: https://www.paxman.org.uk/french-horn-hetman-oils-c2x13618333

Basically slide grease for musical instruments and it's £7.00.

It's been on my FWCS for 100's of hours of play now and no issues.

 

[Tobasco da Gama]

The only serious complaint I've seen about the T.16000m is lack of buttons on the stick itself, which was a necessary design sacrifice to achieve a fully ambidextrous design without sacrificing ergonomics. Some people also criticise the analog stick placement on the TWCS throttle (which is under the left index finger rather than the thumb), but I find it perfectly acceptable myself. YMMV.

Anyway, it's a really high-quality HOTAS or HOSAS system that's still cheaper than the vast majority of the alternatives out there.

 

[danteuk]

The throttle on my t-flight thrustmaster developed a fault a couple of weeks ago, made Elite very Dangerous!!

I replaced it with an X52 separate stick-n-throttle - I'm not regretting it, it's a learning curve but I've mainly been doing exploration since ( I was on the Enigma expedition ).

Apart from the crappy software that sometimes doesn't sync correctly and led's that don't light up most of the time ( have to go to the driver and use the brightness control to make them come back on ) I'm enjoying it. The only other issue is I now have even less desk space!

I'm not 100% fully setup with all the bindings yet, I'm waiting for Chapter One to drop before I spend some serious time trying to get everything right. ( Since the update will almost certainly screw up some bindings anyway - pretty must every ED release does ).

 

[DaveB]

My friend has had a Saitek X52 from before they were bought by Logitech and swears by it. Online reviews for the new models aren't too encouraging....

considered just buying another X52 Pro but, as above, had also heard bad reports of the stick since Logitech took over.

@heretowatch: Your friends X52, like mine, is probably from pre-MadCatz, not just pre-Logitech.

@all: As far as I can tell at the moment, the jury is still out on X-series build quality since Logitech took over. It is absolutely undeniable that the quality suffered a major blow when MadCatz bought Saitek. The sticks still in use from before this time are still holding up well, the ones from after it tend to fall into two distinct categories - hold up well and last or die horribly within the first few months (or even DOA out of the box) It's important to note that the volume on HOTAS setups isn't that great. At this time it is likely that units going out under Logitech's auspices were either manufactured under MadCatz control or assembled by Logitech from parts manufactured during that time. When my pre-MadCatz X52 finally dies (something it has, to date, shown no sign of doing) I am hopeful enough time will have elapsed under Logitech control for us to have a sound viewpoint of their quality control. However, I do not believe we have yet reached that point.

 

[DaveB]

Apart from the crappy software that sometimes doesn't sync correctly and led's that don't light up most of the time ( have to go to the driver and use the brightness control to make them come back on )

This is an unfortunate interaction between your computer's power management, the USB drivers and the stick drivers. Will probably never get fixed as each set of devs involved has two others to point at and claim "It's their fault!" If it's enough of a hassle to bother you, you can sometimes make it go away by messing with your computers power management config to prevent powering down of USB devices or even preventing your computer from "sleeping" altogether. Depending on your precise set of hardware it's going to be a bit of trial and error finding if any particular combo of settings works or not so it's probably not worth that much hassle.

However, given that there is at least this one known issue with power management events I would strongly recommend to all X52 users that when returning to your machine after any such event you always reset the illumination (if necessary) AND clear and reapply any stick profile. It's less traumatic than being in mid-dogfight and discovering that a vital control isn't working right

 

[ph1Lt0r]

The T16000000000000000M FCS is amazing. I can actually hit with rails and PAs with this HOTAS lol.

 

[danteuk]

This is an unfortunate interaction between your computer's power management, the USB drivers and the stick drivers. Will probably never get fixed as each set of devs involved has two others to point at and claim "It's their fault!" If it's enough of a hassle to bother you, you can sometimes make it go away by messing with your computers power management config to prevent powering down of USB devices or even preventing your computer from "sleeping" altogether. Depending on your precise set of hardware it's going to be a bit of trial and error finding if any particular combo of settings works or not so it's probably not worth that much hassle.

The 2nd solution to the led's is simply unplug and plug back in the device - then it's like a xmas tree again

Most of the time I just ignore the fact the led's are not lit, once the profile is set correctly I'm good to go.

 

[DaveB]

The 2nd solution to the led's is simply unplug and plug back in the device - then it's like a xmas tree again

Most of the time I just ignore the fact the led's are not lit, once the profile is set correctly I'm good to go.

This is true, but I got out of the habit of replugging it in the early win10 days when there was a bug that caused bluescreens when some USB drivers unloaded on unplug, particularly if any process that had them open was still running. changing the control panel settings and/or reloading the profile makes it reinit without reloading.

 

[the100thmonkey]

No, you can't. At least, not without serious rewiring.

It really is that simple.

 

[Jakester13]

X52 bought on the day I bought the premium beta has been pretty much flawless. So maybe a pre-Logitec build... I hacked it with the strong magnet hack, but other than that... all good.

Until recently... perhaps (sorry OP...) someone knows?

I always plug/un-plug for ED. I select my stick profile and then launch ED.

The new development is that now I have "mouse-drift". So the mouse pointer (and as a result, headlook) will drift up/down/sideways.

I can still play the game, but any mouse-pointer activity is annoying. When I close and disconnect the sticks the mouse pointer continues erratic behaviours and I am forced to hard-restart the PC.

Anyone experienced this?

o7

 

[Deleted member 110222]

The throttle on my t-flight thrustmaster developed a fault a couple of weeks ago, made Elite very Dangerous!!

I replaced it with an X52 separate stick-n-throttle - I'm not regretting it, it's a learning curve but I've mainly been doing exploration since ( I was on the Enigma expedition ).

Apart from the crappy software that sometimes doesn't sync correctly and led's that don't light up most of the time ( have to go to the driver and use the brightness control to make them come back on ) I'm enjoying it. The only other issue is I now have even less desk space!

I'm not 100% fully setup with all the bindings yet, I'm waiting for Chapter One to drop before I spend some serious time trying to get everything right. ( Since the update will almost certainly screw up some bindings anyway - pretty must every ED release does ).

So it's not just me!