I don't see a price listed on virpil.com/en, but US$300 sounds pretty good, given that my x52 was $220. Throttle units are overrated for spaceflight anyway.
Recommended HOTAS upgrade
- Thread starter JesusOnEez
- Start date
That would be pretty sweet. Yes Hall effect sensors are magnetic. That’s whats in the x-52 pro.
Trust me, the sensors in the x52 Pro are terrible. I have one; the T.16000M's sensors are an order of magnitude better. Just because a sensor is magnetic doesn't mean it's a decent sensor.
There's a reason that magnet and stiffness mods for the x52 are popular.
I'm fairly sure that the other sensors in the T.16000M are magnetic; the twist is the only cheap one. And I agree that the other axis on the T.16000M are great. Even the yaw was fine before it started to die...
I've never had a problem with the axes on the T16000M, even the twist. The sensors on the T16KM are 14-bit, providing 16,384 positions for each axis. The sensors on the x52 are 11-bit, providing 2048 individual positions.
The x52 is spongy and lacks precision. The magnet mod improves it somewhat, but you can only roll a turd in glitter; you can't polish it.
The x52 is spongy and lacks precision. The magnet mod improves it somewhat, but you can only roll a turd in glitter; you can't polish it.
Being a HOTAS Warthog owner myself, I find it hard to believe anyone can find a significant flaw with that stick unless they happened to get a Friday build which can happen with ANY piece of hardware. There are always the odd-statistical outliers that slip through the net and the Warthog is of a very solid construction.
It's downfall is it's price. I just cannot bring myself to pay that kind of money for a toy, or what should be a toy. That's just me. I can vouch for the Thrustmaster TWCS throttle, I mated with a Logitech 3D Pro, but peeps don't go for that much in the suggestion arena. I have more buttons at my fingertips, than I can find a reason to press.
Another vote for the T.16000M + Throttle. I have the orange light one with Throttle for a year and it's great. Previously I had the old green light one and that went to my son when I bought the new (identical) model with Throttle. Still no issue with the old one.
I have just bought this week for my son the new T.Flight HOTAS One (for PC and Xbox One). Not exactly an upgrade, but we also have an account on Xbox, besides the 2 on PC. Nice, all in all, but a bit of a pain to set up properly on PC. I decided against the Xbox style (button combinations), so we are still in the process of choosing the best setup. Maybe it lacks a bit the finesse of the T.16000M + Throttle, but i's solid, heavy and I like the option to stick them together with 2 screws: makes it a solid block on the table.
Another thing about the T.16000M Throttle companion: it has a screw for stiffness. Some silicon grease may help, but 90% of the stiffness issue you can alleviate by using the screw.
I have just bought this week for my son the new T.Flight HOTAS One (for PC and Xbox One). Not exactly an upgrade, but we also have an account on Xbox, besides the 2 on PC. Nice, all in all, but a bit of a pain to set up properly on PC. I decided against the Xbox style (button combinations), so we are still in the process of choosing the best setup. Maybe it lacks a bit the finesse of the T.16000M + Throttle, but i's solid, heavy and I like the option to stick them together with 2 screws: makes it a solid block on the table.
Another thing about the T.16000M Throttle companion: it has a screw for stiffness. Some silicon grease may help, but 90% of the stiffness issue you can alleviate by using the screw.
The Warthog was a treat for myself - I found it hard to justify getting it at the time but on-balance I am glad I did. Having a windfall of disposable income at the right time helped a bit plus the point that I had already been stung by the Saitek driver issues and was after a coherent HOTAS solution (i.e. not multiple independent gaming devices) that was more capable and coherent than the HOTAS X (which I can not praise too much) and was not dependent on proprietary drivers to function correctly.
I have had several sticks over the years but the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro has proven to be one of the most reliable sticks I have had the joy to use and does not cost an arm and a leg, not as good as the HOTAS X for ED but good enough. The HOTAS X is a perfectly balanced and economic option for those after a HOTAS solution with enough buttons and analogue inputs to cover most use cases BUT is not quite enough on it's own for ED. The Warthog on the other hand has enough capability to pair with a VR solution and not require access to the keyboard except to actually type stuff. If you are going down the VR route then I would say the Warthog (or other comparable solution) is essential.
Saitek hardware in the main - I would not touch with a Ly long barge pole now, if it is not reliability issues I have had with Saitek devices it is driver issues, I could never seriously recommend a Saitek branded device. Logitech devices are a mix of 50:50 in the main in terms of reliability, some good and some bad. Thrustmaster on the other hand seem to have a consistently reliable track record.
I passed on the TM HOTAS X. I bought it, have it, and have never used it. It just didn't have enough buttons available for me. It seems a pretty decent piece, but it couldn't move the 3D Pro off my desk.
The process and costs to return it were prohibitive, so I have it still. I would love to find a worthy cause to send it to. The truth is, I have no friends.
My X52 went to a good home after the Saitek drivers finally failed me for the last time - someone I know needed a replacement for their X52 that had gone a bit wonky - I got the HOTAS X after the X52 driver incident. The Warthog came after my good experience with the HOTAS X, I also found the HOTAS X a bit lacking in the button department but not bad enough to stop me recommending it.
I use three HOTAS/Sticks with Elite Dangerous.
1) x52 Pro HOTAS which I've had for 15+ years.
Questions about the T.16000m FCS + Throttle:
1) x52 Pro HOTAS which I've had for 15+ years.
- I used this exclusively for the first 2.5 years of Elite Dangerous. It got me through most of my Tripple Elite grind back when the grind was much more punishing! This HOTAS is still working. I just play the field now.
- Plus: I seem to have gotten a really well built one 15+ years ago which has held up through years of punnishment.
- Plus: It's the HATAS Elite Dangerous was originally built on if I'm not mistaken. Ok, that's not a feature.
- Minus: It's too huge to be portable. Not a minus for some of course, but for me lately.
- Minus: The rudder (stick twist) has always squeaked/vibrated in a somewhat annoying rubber against rubber way.
- Minus: The drivers do go crazy once in a while but there's a quick workaround / prevenative step to the problems I've seen.
- Plus: Inexpensive at around $30 on Amazon.
- Plus: This little stick has very sturdy with absolutely no squeaks.
- Plus: It has lots of buttons and a builtin throttle.
- Plus: Feels very nice in my hand.
- Minus: ED has no built-in profile for this stick.
- Minus: The rudder goes out of alignment from time to time while I'm playing. May just be mine.
- Plus: The most inexpensive full HOTAS I've ever seen.
- Plus: The only one which works with my PS4 so I don't have to use the Dualshock 4 controller.
- Plus: Works on the PC too though I haven't done much PC testing of it yet.
- Minus: Even though it's still working well, it makes a whole cacophony of annoying sounds as I use it.
- Minus: The centering on the throttle is a little to harsh for fast forward reverse changes in my optinion.
- Minus: Being that it's made primarily for the console, it doesn't have very many buttons.
Questions about the T.16000m FCS + Throttle:
- Can others who have used one of more of the above speak to whether or not it is much more accurate?
- Does it always stay calibrated well, especially the rudder?
- Does it have or has it developed any annoying squeaks etc?
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I've got a Thrustmaster Warthog and love it...I'm guessing that some of the new, small production run Eastern European Sticks can compare (I've got some MFG Crosswinds and they're great...)...but amongst the MASS Market stuff there's nothing like it...Build Quality, sheer pleasure of use, its heft, the smoothness of the controls, its programability etc etc...I love it
BUT I have reverted back to CH Products FS/PT for Elite
angerous keeping my Warthog for Flight Sims...WHY? The Analogue XY Axis on the throttle is dreadful...its fine for moving cursors on an MFD BUT its neither easy to use or precise for Analogue Thruster Control...such a shame!
Yup it's sweet as a nut now!
I don't have the throttle unit, but as should be clear from my other posts on this thread, I find the joystick unit to be far superior to the x52 in terms of both accuracy of input and the throw of the stick. The x52's centring springs are really soft, which contribute to its generally spongy, sloppy feeling (the poor sensors don't help either.). I've actually never had to recalibrate it.
The only issue I've had with the stick was a dodgy trigger - the trigger pushes a small plastic shaft onto a microswitch, and through a couple of years of me squeezing the trigger too hard, the shaft became worn. This meant that the trigger occasionally didn't trigger the switch. I fixed it by opening the stick and reseating the shaft. I'll make a more permanent fix with some Sugru later (when I have something else to use the Sugru on) - it works fine for the moment and I don't want to waste the rest of the sachet.
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As my T16kM has just died (guess why? yeah, the twist potentiometer), I've upgraded to Gladiator MkII. Amazing stick, every aspect of its work can be configured but:
- I found default button configuration not really useful for ED
- button remapping ability is almost unlimited but it's also really hard to prepare it because the configuration software is extremely unfriendly and the help document does not make anything easier
- additional caveat: ED limits number of buttons available for single input device to 32 which makes button remapping procedure even more sophisticated (button IDs equal or lower than 32 or keyboard bindings must be used)
I spent three evenings not playing but configuring the stick. [mad] But now it works amazingly good, I'm finally able to not touch keyboard at all (except for writing chat messages).
- I found default button configuration not really useful for ED
- button remapping ability is almost unlimited but it's also really hard to prepare it because the configuration software is extremely unfriendly and the help document does not make anything easier
- additional caveat: ED limits number of buttons available for single input device to 32 which makes button remapping procedure even more sophisticated (button IDs equal or lower than 32 or keyboard bindings must be used)
I spent three evenings not playing but configuring the stick. [mad] But now it works amazingly good, I'm finally able to not touch keyboard at all (except for writing chat messages).
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Hello,
I had (still have) the T.Flight Hotas X and was very satisfied with it. Especially for just 45€, but the T.16000M is better.
I like the switches instead of buttons
The breakaway force (correct word?) is close to Zero!
Open the throttle at it base plate. it is easy and nothing is falling apart.
Clean the sliders with something soft, microfibre comes to mind, grease it with the Aeronix PTFE-grease (bought in Germany - Conrad, Amazon, Reichelt), adjust that mentioned screw, close the throttle again and you will love the result.
Don't use any oil like WD40 or other oils. Maybe silicon spray but just with the snorkel. I really recommend the PTFE grease
And here is one more vote!
I had (still have) the T.Flight Hotas X and was very satisfied with it. Especially for just 45€, but the T.16000M is better.
I like the switches instead of buttons
basicially you are right, but the difference in smoothness with using a good silicon grease - you feel it.
The breakaway force (correct word?) is close to Zero!
Open the throttle at it base plate. it is easy and nothing is falling apart
.Clean the sliders with something soft, microfibre comes to mind, grease it with the Aeronix PTFE-grease (bought in Germany - Conrad, Amazon, Reichelt), adjust that mentioned screw, close the throttle again and you will love the result.
Don't use any oil like WD40 or other oils. Maybe silicon spray but just with the snorkel. I really recommend the PTFE grease
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The T16000m is significantly more accurate than any of the 3 you listed. All four sticks are fairly cheaply built and if you put a lot of hours in, they may start falling apart within a year. The T16000m is at least relatively cheap, so you can replace it without too much hassle. The only stick I've used that is more accurate than the T16000m is the VKB Gladiator. The VKB however is not a space sim stick so most of the buttons are located in the base, which is nice and heavy btw, all metal. The VKB definitely is more burly and solid feeling than the T16000m but I haven't had it long enough to judge its durability.
The Warthog is not bad at all, it is great, actually, but the gimbal on the Viepil is a world ahead. Remember, the Warthog is close to a decade old design now, if memory serves, and it does suffer from a bit of stiction. It does still have my favourtie grip.
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