C&P loop-hole. Trade ship builds can be more than combat build ships! Even a T7!
- Thread starter Susanna
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Anybody, flying the trade ships used in the OP's example are not ships I would associate with 'Seals' to be clubbed. All of those are late-ish (T-7) game builds. Those types of encounters were never meant to be included in consideration for the increased Bounties. Anyone in a T-9, or /Conda is well past the point of being newbies. They may still be 'easy prey' but, that's just the way it goes. Each of those whips mentioned have every chance of escaping an attack, with just the most rudimentary defensive precautions.
In short, the increased Bounty costs were never meant to protect Traders, but rather Newbies. No loopholes here.
In short, the increased Bounty costs were never meant to protect Traders, but rather Newbies. No loopholes here.
OP makes a good point !
This does not only affect seal clubbing .... it affects victims of "emergent content creators" who like to cause financial grief to haulers.
I sometimes bring my all-purpose-T10 to a Trade CG which is equipped with a big fuel scoop, and don't bother replacing it with cargo (maybe I should?), because I can travel large distances quickly and benefit from bigger price differences in the trade (away from where other commanders are hoovering up the commodities in their trade cutters etc.).
This also affects situations where a trader is using a fast ship to haul rares, such as an AspX with a big fuel scoop, for example.
It would make more sense to factor the hull cost of the victim (and the victim only) into the equation, instead, which reduces the influence of expensive attachments. That way, there is less advantage in shipping a uber-weaponed FDL around the bubble just to create expensive grief for hauler commanders.
This does not only affect seal clubbing .... it affects victims of "emergent content creators" who like to cause financial grief to haulers.
I sometimes bring my all-purpose-T10 to a Trade CG which is equipped with a big fuel scoop, and don't bother replacing it with cargo (maybe I should?), because I can travel large distances quickly and benefit from bigger price differences in the trade (away from where other commanders are hoovering up the commodities in their trade cutters etc.).
This also affects situations where a trader is using a fast ship to haul rares, such as an AspX with a big fuel scoop, for example.
It would make more sense to factor the hull cost of the victim (and the victim only) into the equation, instead, which reduces the influence of expensive attachments. That way, there is less advantage in shipping a uber-weaponed FDL around the bubble just to create expensive grief for hauler commanders.
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And if a ganker ship(s) [gankers are usually plural by definition] is fitted with super penetrator weapons to take out the traders FSD in one or two shots? What do they do then? A trader is not likely to fit a load of MRPs, sturdy mod there FSD (over increased range), or have military armour either... However experienced, a trader probably has a slim chance of escape in that crucial 25 seconds for their FSD to cool down and recharge, and not get it shot out from underneath them!
In short, the way to fly safe, is to not fly in Open!
If one is able to fit an 8A fuel scoop, one should be able to get away unscathed from nearly anything.
Such a trading ships trading in open should be :
1) properly fitted (I hope, otherwise the pilot has issues with Learning). Open is not solo. one HRP and one MRP and mil armor go a long way.
2) the escape routine should be second nature for the pilot at this stage.
3) Open is hard mode for trading. More risk, less profit (MRP/HRP/Large shields eat space)
In other words : it's fine. Unless you're a cutternoob, in which case the Learning process will be quite more expensive
than if it had be done on a T6.
Professional emergent content providers will take a while to deter (read : a lot of rebuys will be required to eat that 10B stash)
while amateur emergent content providers will get cold feets quite fast IMO. If ganking is reduced by 50%, it's already a win
Such a trading ships trading in open should be :
1) properly fitted (I hope, otherwise the pilot has issues with Learning). Open is not solo. one HRP and one MRP and mil armor go a long way.
2) the escape routine should be second nature for the pilot at this stage.
3) Open is hard mode for trading. More risk, less profit (MRP/HRP/Large shields eat space)
In other words : it's fine. Unless you're a cutternoob, in which case the Learning process will be quite more expensive
than if it had be done on a T6.
Professional emergent content providers will take a while to deter (read : a lot of rebuys will be required to eat that 10B stash)
while amateur emergent content providers will get cold feets quite fast IMO. If ganking is reduced by 50%, it's already a win
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That's assuming that those "emergent content creators" care about credits. I don't think that this is the case.
Ummm. Unfortunately, I rather think you missed the point. Entirely my fault for not explaining clearly enough.
Yes, that's also a serious problem ..... they are likely to have credits coming out of their ears in the first place
I guess the other enforcement alternative, with SJA's advanced tactical weaponed-NPCs take over if they continue in their killing spree.
I don't think I have. My opinion is, anyone in one of your trade ship examples, has every chance of escaping from an aChief, unless they built their ships paper thin. Then by all means avoid open. But mixing the two was never meant to be protected. (I don't like using the word 'protected', but my point should still be made.)
Huh? Traders use large fuel scoops? I doubt that, except for rares traders.
If you are doing a few hops then you might use the better part of a tank, but still shouldn't require a scoop. Your cr/hr would drop too low with too many jumps. Worst case scenario, drop a small scoop on for a one time refuel, or add an extra fuel tank and double your range.
If you are doing a few hops then you might use the better part of a tank, but still shouldn't require a scoop. Your cr/hr would drop too low with too many jumps. Worst case scenario, drop a small scoop on for a one time refuel, or add an extra fuel tank and double your range.
Yes, that's also a serious problem ..... they are likely to have credits coming out of their ears in the first place
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And for a successful trader having enough credits to pay for the reduced re-buy after getting blown up by a player with notoriety 10 shouldn't be a problem.
The simple solution is: Don't care about getting blown up.
This makes open less optimal for RP for some players, but it works beautifully. Simply decide to be "ungriefable".
"you pay 10% per point of notoriety of the difference between your rebuy cost and your victims rebuy cost".
Difference?
just 10% (per point) of the difference?
Make it the whole cost, not just the difference.
This will not significantly affect piracy or consensual PvP: Pirates want cargo, not kills.
Consensual PvPers typically turn off "Report crimes against me".
Difference?
just 10% (per point) of the difference?
Make it the whole cost, not just the difference.
This will not significantly affect piracy or consensual PvP: Pirates want cargo, not kills.
Consensual PvPers typically turn off "Report crimes against me".
Deleted member 115407
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What kind of facacta trade builds are these?
The problem with your post is that you're adding a bunch of trader and combat language into what is a simple discussion of outfitting. If we re-word it for accuracy it should read like this: If you choose to outfit your trade ship poorly, then you are likely to be killed by a less expensive combat ship.
Even the "combat ship" you gave as an example is poorly outfitted, and any properly outfitted T-7 or T-9 trade build could easily survive an encounter with it.
TL;DR - You're really bad at outfitting.
That's nonsense. They were poor example builds, and Zadian was pointing out that if you choose to pack a bunch of useless, expensive modules into your ship, then of course your rebuy is going to be higher.
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If only there was a middle way between the most expensive A-rated scoop and no scoop at all...
Thing is the objective is to be in the least expensive ship you can manage, to have the greatest difference between yourself and your attacker. The greater the price difference, the greater their costs. So for a T-7, you'd want: https://coriolis.io/outfit/type_7_t...18aQ==.Aw18aQ==..EweloBhBmSQUwIYHMA28QgIwV0A=
We could potentially make a new game of "Counter Griefing", by flying swarms of small, weak ships into the line of fire of griefer murdermobiles, and see if we can't wrack them up Bankruptcy in rebuy costs.
See how this becomes an "Arms Race" real fast?
Personally, I'd just as soon leave people alone to play.
We could potentially make a new game of "Counter Griefing", by flying swarms of small, weak ships into the line of fire of griefer murdermobiles, and see if we can't wrack them up Bankruptcy in rebuy costs.
See how this becomes an "Arms Race" real fast?
Personally, I'd just as soon leave people alone to play.
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Deleted member 115407
D
If only there was a middle way between the most expensive A-rated scoop and no scoop at all...
Unless you're taking that T-7 to Colonia, a couple of 3C fuel tanks ought to suffice.