Money sinks: Does Elite need them?

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I would like to see some sensible costs added to daily Elite life, like for example: Docking fees.
All Elite games had them and I want them in ED too.

Agreed...and perhaps Transaction Taxes for buying/selling commodities...Storage Costs for Ships/Modules...an Insurance Premium paid regularly to ensure you get access to rebuys...and annual Maintenance etc for ships...
Perhaps reduced rates for some of those for +ve status' with controlling Factions etc etc...make the whole "running a Ship business" a little more interesting from an economics point of view...
 
If people cared as much in real life as in game about wealth distribution we'd be living in a very different world.
There will be stuff to sink credits into down the line. I like to have lots of rebuys for my ships as I'm not great at PVP but I'm trying to improve.
 
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Agreed...and perhaps Transaction Taxes for buying/selling commodities...Storage Costs for Ships/Modules...an Insurance Premium paid regularly to ensure you get access to rebuys...and annual Maintenance etc for ships...
Perhaps reduced rates for some of those for +ve status' with controlling Factions etc etc...make the whole "running a Ship business" a little more interesting from an economics point of view...

Agree with this, too- reputation/ranks should have meaning in the game. Affecting credits/debits would go a long way into improving this.

This would of course, as I've stated previously, require FD to take a more global approach to addressing the game's economy as a whole. Everything needs to be reviewed and improved instead of more "first-aid" approaches and patching.
 
The only money sinks are ships; you lose 10% when you sell them. Everything else gets you 100% of your money back.

Hint: When starting out, sell damaged modules for full refund, then rebuy a new 100% one...save credits!
 
I'd be rather keen on seeing some ridiculously lavish megaship casinos myself.

We need a gambling mini game. Spend your day slave trading and pirating and then head to the nearest low security system to spend all the profits gambling. Sounds like a good time. :D
 
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We need a gambling mini game. Spend your day slave trading and pirating and then head to the nearest low security system to spend all the profits gambling. Sounds like a good time. :D
How about making slaves fight to the death for our entertainment and gambling pleasure? :D

Or, if we're talking about pirates, at least a spitting contest!

9-mi_24_07.gif
 
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It's probably the area where EvE has it nailed (omg I said EVE).

The thing about the ED economy is that everything is conjured up out of witch-space. There's no movement and no industrial side to ED. The bubble would be a different place if 'conjured up' ships were actually only made from player made materials, and those materials made from minerals mined. The demand and supply relationship would really take meaning, especially if combat zones and NPC / Faction armies were reliant on these production chains to support their campaigns.

The question is, is there a big enough player base to support such a model? I'm skeptical and say, probably not. BUT I do know a lot of friends that would take up ED if there was a player driven industrial and commerce side...

thoughts for food :)
 
It's probably the area where EvE has it nailed (omg I said EVE).

The thing about the ED economy is that everything is conjured up out of witch-space. There's no movement and no industrial side to ED. The bubble would be a different place if 'conjured up' ships were actually only made from player made materials, and those materials made from minerals mined. The demand and supply relationship would really take meaning, especially if combat zones and NPC / Faction armies were reliant on these production chains to support their campaigns.

The question is, is there a big enough player base to support such a model? I'm skeptical and say, probably not. BUT I do know a lot of friends that would take up ED if there was a player driven industrial and commerce side...

thoughts for food :)

OMG you said EVE! You're such a BAD person! :p No, actually you'd be correct in this comparison, if for only one small (yet significant) difference.

EVE was built on player economy as its basis- ED was not. Everything in EVE was structured around player-vs-player activity. ED was not built with player-vs-player in mind, hence the reason why not everything can be affected in ED by PvP activity. (and arguably the reason for much whinging on the forums) Although the fallacy continues that ED was built with "PvP at its core" the reality is that it wasn't, it was built with player interaction as a completely optional choice. (Open, PG's, Solo)

People will continue to call for a player-based economy- and it will continue to be ignored because unless it was structured from its very roots to be so, it will never really be such.

I played EVE for years. Have many fond memories of the game- and also think they did quite a few things right- but I'm very aware that ED is not (nor will ever be) EVE or like EVE. :)
 
It's probably the area where EvE has it nailed (omg I said EVE).

The thing about the ED economy is that everything is conjured up out of witch-space. There's no movement and no industrial side to ED. The bubble would be a different place if 'conjured up' ships were actually only made from player made materials, and those materials made from minerals mined. The demand and supply relationship would really take meaning, especially if combat zones and NPC / Faction armies were reliant on these production chains to support their campaigns.

The question is, is there a big enough player base to support such a model? I'm skeptical and say, probably not. BUT I do know a lot of friends that would take up ED if there was a player driven industrial and commerce side...

thoughts for food :)
While I wasn't a huge fan of the X games (they never quite scratched that Elite itch for me), I did like how the economies actually felt alive, dynamic, responsive and meaningful.
 
Buying more ships just means spending more time engineering, and finding the materials, etc. Not actual gameplay.

Keep only a very few ships, set them up as you like, then just play the game.

Finding materials just happens. Go bounty hunt, oh look, materials everywhere. Go down to a planet to scan data, oh look materials.
Yes, there have been times where I've needed a few more Thermic Alloys, some more Proto Heat Radiators, or a few more Cracked Industrial Firmware. Oddly, having picked these sorts of things up numerous times already, finding them is seldom much of an issue (except Thermic Alloys, those things hate me). And this has allowed me to buy, build, upgrade and maintain a fleet of around 50 ships.

We wouldn't have needed a credit sink if FD just rolled back people's accounts exploited things and took a tougher stance against it. Now people who haven't exploited are at a big disadvantage with the C&P changes.

Frontier has taken the appropriate action where exploits are concerned. Just ask all those folks with 500+ G5 rolled engineered modules min/maxed to the extreme, that they did using G1 materials... oh, that's right, they don't have those any more, and that exploit no longer works. Huh.

So what is it that you're calling an "Exploit" that Frontier is not? Not that it really matters - their game, their rules, not ours. We just play here.
 
Buying more ships just means spending more time engineering, and finding the materials, etc. Not actual gameplay.

Keep only a very few ships, set them up as you like, then just play the game.

We wouldn't have needed a credit sink if FD just rolled back people's accounts exploited things and took a tougher stance against it. Now people who haven't exploited are at a big disadvantage with the C&P changes.

The only money sinks are ships; you lose 10% when you sell them. Everything else gets you 100% of your money back.

Hint: When starting out, sell damaged modules for full refund, then rebuy a new 100% one...save credits!

And then Engineer them all over again... no thanks.
 
While I wasn't a huge fan of the X games (they never quite scratched that Elite itch for me), I did like how the economies actually felt alive, dynamic, responsive and meaningful.

Plus the Capital ships and the ability to buy and build space stations and then bolt together multiple stations to build giant complexes meant that you certainly never ran out of money or things to spend it on.

I never owned a capital ship but I owned some huge complexes. My biggest was so big I couldn't actually go and look at it cos it slowed my computer down too much.
 
I've always been keen on the idea of having a "home" on a starbase. A special station where you can designate as "home". Perhaps a weekly rental charge (small, nothing overwhelming) would be in order. As a benefit, you'd receive a discount on modules sold there, better missions, and increased module storage, and a place to drip of materials (never liked the magic pocket of our materials/data). To avoid station hoping you could enact a 1 week minimum wait time on housing. Perhaps when/if space legs are a thing we could walk arpund our quaters and decorate. Just a thought.

I brought up something like this a while ago:
We can all agree that player owned Starbases (SB) are not in the short term plan (. . . or, said more bluntly, a “non-starter’). That is not what this is about. This is about the Starbases that we choose to call, “home.”

What should a, “Home Starbase,” (HS) be?

Pilots should be provided a single free HS. Please understand that when I say HS that this is not an entire SB, it is simply a home on the SB (or planetary base). It should require that a pilot be, at least, friendly. If a pilot falls to unfriendly they should be required to pay rent. It they fall to hostile then it is reasonable that the home and all assets in it be seized (stored ships and modules may, merely, become unavailable).

Players pledged to a power should not be able to purchase a HS in a SB that is pledged to a different faction. The superpower of the players HS would determine the superpower flag of their ships.

What should a home provide?

First, something that has been called for by many players; a small amount of storage. I would consider about 40t (approximately the capacity of a 21st century shipping container) to be adequate. This would keep players from storing enough to unbalance economies.

Second, low cost, or free, module and ship transfer TO, and only to, the HS. It is reasonable that it would take longer to transport modules on a reduced, space available, cost basis.

A resident should, based on a combination of reputation and time as a resident, develop the contacts to access slightly better prices at his, or her, home SB. Ideally, a trusted resident would also be trusted with special, more delicate, missions. A Resident should also, by virtue of better contacts within their home SB be able to access slightly better prices for cartographic data; again, the exact multiplier would be based on a combination of reputation and time as a resident.

What it comes down to is that ship commanders should be able to apply meaning to the term “Home.” The actual details are just that. Details.

Some people weer saying that this was a "something for nothing" proposal. That seems to mean that to add something good, you have to be sure to make it into something bad.

Those people haven't though it through very well. As soon as ship are flagged, issues that add game complexity can arise. As an example, a SB at war with the Empire would be justified in denying sales, or even landing rights to Imperial ships. In an extreme case, system defenses could attempt to restrict travel through a system. A commander with ships flagged Federation could never become ally of the Empire. Unflagged ships could be denied entrance to certain SBs'; these are just examples of the things that could be done once "membership" in a superpower is given meaning.

This is something that could be easily tied to the "home" mechanic. So, no it isn't just "something for nothing, it could be used to create a new level of depth to the game.
 
I don’t like the concept of having money sinks which can impact gameplay or buy player advantages. However, it would be fun to have an in game money sink which was mostly meaningless for anything other than bragging rights or a fun personal challenge of some kind.

For example, if players could buy shares of stocks from companies or factions in the Elite Dangerous galaxy that could be a fun way to spend your credits. Have shares go up and down so players can “play the market”, even include an in game leaderboard listing all investors and how much they have invested, implementing a kind of multiplayer competitive business rivalry that really isn’t good for anything but bragging rights. Sure you could potentially make more credits by buying low and selling high, but it would be far less efficient than simply playing the game. The main purpose is to simply compete with others in a meaningless show of wealth. A publicly listed place to “store” your wealth so to speak.

On that note though it might actually be neat to link the stock prices to the BGS so player actions could actually impact stock prices. Would give players whole new reasons to do things in the game.
 
I don't see logic in awarding every man and their dog an over-inflated amount of credits for no reason, and then removing them for no reason.

How about instead of credit sinks we just stop giving players a several mill for carting a few cans of poop around for five minutes?
Because you are hauling poop for democracy!
It is a mission of the highest moral importance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why would you transport princes lucky to that ceremony? Wait has anyone ever met princess lucky? Or those dignitaries?
I think my missions are broken, will try re-install
Do you only have 1 Cobra? If so buy 2 more Cobras, then set one up for exploration, one up for fighting and one for trading? Less messing about swapping modules when changing your game mission.
NO! buy 30 cobras and pretend you want/need them!!!!! wait i mean 60, there is no limit on the number of ships you can own
 
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just because some players choose to take a vow of poverty ingame doesn't mean everyone else should have to as well. Just play your game and don't worry about it. If you don't need any more money, that's great. If another player enjoys amassing mountains of cash, well that's their game.

When you say "money sink" I think some ingame mechanism that removes money from you simply for being a player in the game or playing the game. I'm absolutely opposed to that. If on the other hand you're suggesting we need more things we CAN spend money on if we choose to, then sure...why not. The more things the better.
 
I'm not sure a "credit sink" is either a solution to a non-existent "problem". How many credits anyone has has nearly no effect on anyone else's ability to engage in any activity. Sure, they can afford their rebuy. Yes, I suppose they could mission stack and mode-flip their way through hundreds of millions in Donation missions to swing the balance of power in your favorite system. But neither of these actually effects anyone's ability to play the game.

But at the same time, it would be nice to have things we could spend money on, other than ships, modules and factions. I'd be rather keen on seeing some ridiculously lavish megaship casinos myself. And I suppose if it ever came right down to it, a CG "Raise Funds for the Orphans of Thargoid Attacks", where the host faction simply asks people to make Credit donations, and award some neat cosmetic items rather than more credits.

Chocbo racing :)
Starfish Bingo :)

And they're just the ideas off the top of my head.

V2k.
 
I would support vanity items for credits. Many MMO's do this and it's a great way to drain money out of the economy. I also want to point out that almost every other MMO has player trading built into the game. They have a very real reason to keep the economy going and try to prevent massive inflation. Elite Dangerous does not have player trading and as such, it does not need credit sinks.
 
Meh. This game is no different than any other single player/multiplayer game and cash. The game isn't really based on an economy, in short, with enough time, everyone will have infinite credits.
 
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