No more high-range FSD buffs, thanks!

[andrewg_oz]

I was recently watching last weeks livestream and there was mention of a buff to the Asp Explorer.

While I personally don't think any buffs are necessary for that particular ship, I really hope to not see any further FSD range increases at the high end of the jump range.

I'll double down on that by saying that if I could have a wish, it would be that engineered FSD range increase blueprints had never been added to the game.

I hadn't realised this until a post from MadDogMurdock crystallised an unconscious thought of mine that increased FSD ranges had trivialised navigation in the galaxy.

At the time I had just been out to Beagle Point. My exploration Anaconda is far from FSD-optimised - it has a 50.37Ly unladen range. This is not that much more than pre-engineers optimised ranges of about 42Ly and a long way from the mid-60s that optimised builds now get. Nevertheless, those extra 8Ly made all the difference when crossing The Abyss.

Previously, explorers had spent days or weeks exploring the outer arm of the galaxy, trying to find the best way to the Beagle Point area from the galactic core. Several such routes were discovered and mapped to much acclaim.

The problem is that my 50Ly jump range allowed me to just automatically plot a course across the arm with a single click. What had previously taken days or weeks, just took seconds.

While these increased jump ranges are great for *travelling*, they have pretty much completely eliminated *navigation* from the game. It turns out that the old ~42Ly range was the upper limit that kept the gaps between the galactic arms as gaps. Now they're gone forever, and I feel that a large part of the effort that has gone into creating the superb stellar forge model of our galaxy has been wasted.

Even after all these buffs, there are still people complaining that their FSD ranges are too short!

A large chunk of potential exploration gameplay has been lost, and there are still complaints - it seems a very poor trade.

For people who don't like long distance travelling, who don't want to put in the effort, then all I can suggest is - don't! There is nothing forcing anyone to travel long distances. Shorter trips are always an option.

There are players who would like to travel long distances, with the knowledge that there is a certain minimum of effort required to get there. Each update to Elite seems bent on reducing that effort more and more, devaluing the efforts of those who had gone before, and I like to see that stop.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Even after all these buffs, there are still people complaining that their FSD ranges are too short!

Yes, they want shortcuts. There are always people who demand shortcuts in game.

A large chunk of potential exploration gameplay has been lost, and there are still complaints - it seems a very poor trade.

I don't think FD this on 'complain' basis. FSD jump range really doesn't take away that much, it gives player choice but that's about it.

 

[Godsailsaqueen]

Here's a thing.

If you don't like the jump range increase overall, which is a stance I can understand, just use the added boost in another way.
I won't tell you to use another blueprint (like faster boot sequence), but to make profit of your higher potential jump range to make your exploring ship, let's say, for instance, more bulky with military grade composite, better thrusters, better Power distributors, more heat sink utility slots...

You'd say "but those are useless on an exploration ship". They're not, and now if you feel comfortable with a lesser jump range, they might help you survive the occasional "I crashed on a planet and died" we hear from bored explorers every now and again, or just feel more comfortable going back to the bubble.

My opinion is that added jump range doesn't kill navigation. It just allows to have the same navigation as before, with added benefits.
If a jump range increase would hit the asp explorer, I would think it's an opportunity for a wider range of builds, rather than anything else.

 

[Dommarraa]

Agreed, but IMHO it's too late already. Might as well have buffs, as the various 'improvements' have already flattened the galaxy to be exactly the same wherever you are.
Beware of brown areas? Forget it, just apply a filter.
Want to explore the edge? Always could do that, the edge has just moved further out.

I wonder if the original ranges were chosen specifically to display the variety of regions, or if it was a happy coincidence, it didn't take a lot of range increase to make it dull and flat.

 

[baqar79]

Well there are already 2 ships with better range then the AspX; one of which is cheaper, so buffing the AspX's range isn't going to change much, unless it is buffed to jump further than the Anaconda.

However the one upgrade I would like to see with the AspX is an improvement to it's absolutely horrible acceleration/deceleration profile. My Python even does a better a job of coming to a stop then my AspX, and it's inability to stop in a timely matter is very much a liability on high-G worlds.

 

[Bob McBobblehead]

I am sure Sandro was talking about the Asp Scout, not the Asp Explorer.

 

[Godsailsaqueen]

Agreed, but IMHO it's too late already. Might as well have buffs, as the various 'improvements' have already flattened the galaxy (...) I wonder if the original ranges were chosen specifically to display the variety of regions, or if it was a happy coincidence, it didn't take a lot of range increase to make it dull and flat.

My guess is that fsd boosts were not meant primarily for explorers (even though felicity farseer seems to imply that), but for bubble / pleiades fighting builds to have an easier life travelling with their defences. Before transfer ships was introduced.

Of course the biggest bonuses were to be applied to the already stripped down explorer ships.
But it's not Fdev's fault if most explorers continue stripping their ships completely (and complain about the jump range) and not benefit from the boost to carry more things.
ultimately, more choice for everyone, be it long jumpers or the others.

 

[Valorin]

Isn't that simply a case of "If you don't like it, don't use it"?

 

[John Xenir]

(...)
A large chunk of potential exploration gameplay has been lost (...)

I'm sorry, what exploration game play again?
Since this game has been released, I haven't seen any major changes to the exploration mechanics. It never had much to do with actual exploration to begin with.

If the galaxy was somewhat mapped in - say - 500Ly radius around Sol, and the rest of stars had to be uncovered along the way, sure - that's proper exploration.
But it wasn't so sadly, it remains the honk-scoop-jump(sometimes sight-see) "exploration" that we have.
Wonder how much Q4 changes will... change.

 

[Phazon Xenomorph]

Beluga needs a buff. Supposed to be best tourism exploration sightseeing ship yet beat by two in its own line and about 5 others ontop that. Asp is honestly fine where it's at since its only really beaten by dbx and conda... really beluga should beat conda since its meant exclusively to see sights.

 

[Unhappyhour]

I'll double down on that by saying that if I could have a wish, it would be that engineered FSD range increase blueprints had never been added to the game.

Do you know what the best thing about FSD range increase is? You don't have to use it if you don't want to.

 

[Maro-Val]

I was recently watching last weeks livestream and there was mention of a buff to the Asp Explorer.

While I personally don't think any buffs are necessary for that particular ship, I really hope to not see any further FSD range increases at the high end of the jump range.

I'll double down on that by saying that if I could have a wish, it would be that engineered FSD range increase blueprints had never been added to the game.

I hadn't realised this until a post from MadDogMurdock crystallised an unconscious thought of mine that increased FSD ranges had trivialised navigation in the galaxy.

At the time I had just been out to Beagle Point. My exploration Anaconda is far from FSD-optimised - it has a 50.37Ly unladen range. This is not that much more than pre-engineers optimised ranges of about 42Ly and a long way from the mid-60s that optimised builds now get. Nevertheless, those extra 8Ly made all the difference when crossing The Abyss.

Previously, explorers had spent days or weeks exploring the outer arm of the galaxy, trying to find the best way to the Beagle Point area from the galactic core. Several such routes were discovered and mapped to much acclaim.

The problem is that my 50Ly jump range allowed me to just automatically plot a course across the arm with a single click. What had previously taken days or weeks, just took seconds.

While these increased jump ranges are great for *travelling*, they have pretty much completely eliminated *navigation* from the game. It turns out that the old ~42Ly range was the upper limit that kept the gaps between the galactic arms as gaps. Now they're gone forever, and I feel that a large part of the effort that has gone into creating the superb stellar forge model of our galaxy has been wasted.

Even after all these buffs, there are still people complaining that their FSD ranges are too short!

A large chunk of potential exploration gameplay has been lost, and there are still complaints - it seems a very poor trade.

For people who don't like long distance travelling, who don't want to put in the effort, then all I can suggest is - don't! There is nothing forcing anyone to travel long distances. Shorter trips are always an option.

There are players who would like to travel long distances, with the knowledge that there is a certain minimum of effort required to get there. Each update to Elite seems bent on reducing that effort more and more, devaluing the efforts of those who had gone before, and I like to see that stop.

With all due respect, what are you talking about? The pre-engineers ranges wasnt at all at 42 LY and stop using that number for your argument. That was achievable with a pretty much non functional, stripped down anaconda and it was the ONLY ship that could do that, bravo. Navigating the galaxy with a ship like that was a pain. And now you have 50ish, which i bet is a well functioning exploration ship and if you post your loadout i ll prove you that you are making a very good use of engineered fsd.

You are looking the matter strictly from an exploration point and more specifically, navigating between gaps. I agree and hats off to explorers that spend days, weeks, months to map the paths and opened the way for other explorers, they sure made history in this game.
But lets not forget how much time from our REAL LIVES it took to move around the bubble. A combat corvette had a jump range of 10 LY for christ sake. First time i went to colonia, it took me like 500 jumps. While it felt like an achievement back then, i prefer going there every few months in 2 and a half hours with my jumpaconda. So i suggest you take it on the devs about their "brilliant" way of balancing ships around jump range.
As far as exploration goes, true exploration and true discoveries are also made as we speak and can be made NOW, that we have the jump range and we can use synthesis. Do your homeworth and see where commanders with exceptional navigation skills have been in the galaxy by using the nowdays jumprange and neutron boosts. Progress did that, not getting stuck to stupid balancing methods.

A final note on your wish which sounds a bit childish, with no intention to insult you. I suggest you go back and fit a stock fsd fron now on.

Edit: on my last trip i went from colonia to beagle point using neutrons, and came all the way back with no neutrons at all except the last 10K and in many sectors i crossed them with economic mode. I HAD OPTIONS and i used them to explore my way.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

I generally agree with the OP.

Too higher jump ranges trivialise the entire galaxy. That said, with my Anaconda with a 52~ly range, I still had fun navigating the outer rim.

However, bubble travel, and general A-B travel requires a decent jump range, or it just comes across as a "pointless time sink" (not my words!).

The exploration range of ships is about right, maybe too high, but definitely shouldn't be buffed anymore.
My issue with jump ranges, is actually the ranges of jump ranges. Lol

Some ships *cough*Corvette*cough* are just plain awful to travel in.

They need rebalancing so they have a good jump range when empty, and rubbish when laden. Kinda like the Anaconda, but not as extreme.

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

 

[Ziljan]

Pretty sure the buffs that Frontier were mentioning were in regards to combat. The Asp was originally designed as a military vessel, and the current implementation is a bit squishy especially in a CZ situation. It could use sightly better internals for module protection and more base armor. Maybe a slightly better power distributor as well.

 

[Vandaahl]

There are players who would like to travel long distances, with the knowledge that there is a certain minimum of effort required to get there. Each update to Elite seems bent on reducing that effort more and more, devaluing the efforts of those who had gone before, and I like to see that stop.

There is still a lot out there thats pretty hard to - or can't even be reached, even with today's jump range. But indeed, things have got a heck of a lot easier.

 

[Weps]

Yup, same feeling here. Navigation in this game has been reduced to selecting your destination. The balance we had at launch (which I like to believe had been carried out in conjunction with the actual distances resulting from the procedural generation of the galaxy) is gone.

Bottom line is that FDEV decided down the line that they need to sell the game to more people, so they turned it from a space game into an RPG game set in space. Chasing OP maxed out gear stats is what it's all about now.

 

[biohazard15]

Awww, the same old "They took my fun out of the game" argument, as was in case of mega-shields.

Here's a hint: no one took your "fun" away. If you want to have to "navigate" through "abyss" or something, simply do not mount G5 FSD. Or don't use engineers at all, and fly in stock Conda with its about 40Ly max range. In the meantime, others could have their fun flying 60 Ly+ Condas.

Here, problem solved. Easy, huh?

 

[Bob McBobblehead]

Jump range is a choice. If you don't like higher jump ranges, then don't engineer your FSD or buy a lower class FSD and play the way you want. By keeping the FSD jump range lower for everyone you are restricting other players play style choices.

I am quite happy with the current jump ranges, but I am not against them going up.

 

[Ca$hback]

There's a common theme to water down the standards of everything in life so that everybody can be a winner.
Other people are my frame of reference. That's why I care how they achieve. If I was competitive I'd have an even better excuse to be interested.
I agree with OP and then some.

 

[andrak]

150 years ago we had a compass, a map and a horse that took real effort and time to get to the destination... Now we have cars with sat nav. Times change.

I'm all for keeping the size of the galaxy large IF there is a compelling gameplay reason to do it. Watching 200 loading screens instead of 100 loading screens just because isn't one of them.