No more high-range FSD buffs, thanks!

[WR3ND]

...

Yes, these days navigation/path finding type gameplay is all but irrelevant except in certain fringe case scenarios. That hasn't always been the case though.

In general, I agree though that jump range in particular isn't an exploration specific game mechanic. For better or worse, it's essentially just a countdown divider to get to where you're going.

Does anyone else remember brown dwarfs? They're still in the game somewhere, right?

 

[andrewg_oz]

its that large jump ranges make the galaxy flat and monotonous, almost "beigification"

This describes how I feel about the issue almost exactly.

Prior to engineers and FSD boosts there was much greater contrast and interest between different parts of the galaxy, in terms of navigation. With the increased jump range, a lot more of galactic navigation became 'beige' or the same. Sure, parts are still different, like there are still non-beige planets, but it's been very much pushed out to the edges.

I have to accept that there is now no way to restore the old navigation contrasts to the game and accept that navigation (as opposed to travelling) is now even more boring than it already was - the amount of salt generated would probably exceed all salt generated to date on the entire forum!

All I can ask is that it doesn't get any worse, which is all I asked in the first place.

 

[wstephenson]

Then all planes should have a max range of 250km. As there would be no fun in seeing friends and family in Hong Kong on just a 12 hour flight. We'd expect it to take at least 10 days otherwise there would be no sense of the scale of Earth.

This is a bad analogy, because air travel is a passive occupation, so it is desirable to make it as short as possible. Plotting out your own route around barriers and hazards and planning resource consumption is interesting. Long range exploration is a challenge, and jump range inflation negates it, or makes it an artificial challenge by limiting yourself, like walking to Spain on your knees.

Imagine if an explorer, seeing combat as a nuisance in the same way you describe travel, came along and said that there is no challenge in fighting NPCs with an engineered ship and system authority do most of the work anyway, so we should be able to insta-gib any NPC with something Ed's godmode tools if we want to get out of an engagement.

 

[Yure]

I don't care about trivialized jump range. I care about only being able to log on for an hour and wasting my time on loading screens just to get somewhere.

 

[WR3ND]

I don't care about trivialized jump range. I care about only being able to log on for an hour and wasting my time on loading screens just to get somewhere.

That's enough time to get to the Pleiades and back from the middle of the bubble in a combat or trade loaded ship. Not sure what your issue could be then.

Sure, it might not be the most compelling gameplay, but fortunately there are areas in the bubble much closer to choose from, if that is a consideration.

 

[wstephenson]

. Also, make jumping to systems a risky affair :

Some really good obstacle ideas here, and they extend the star jump scare mechanism we have with more variety. Repped. I also like the jump range ~= uncertainty mechanism

I would like to see the distribution function for obstacles be 'clumpy' rather than linear to create the equivalent of mountain ranges and swamps, to go with the desert wastelands of brown dwarf fields. If there were areas of densely dusty systems that would degrade FSDs on entry, people would have a reason to go round or find 'passes' through them. Obstacles away from the star would make travelling to high scan value stellar bodies more interesting, if the discovery scanner was a imperfect at discovering them at range.

 

[Muetdhiver]

This is a bad analogy, because air travel is a passive occupation, so it is desirable to make it as short as possible. Plotting out your own route around barriers and hazards and planning resource consumption is interesting. Long range exploration is a challenge, and jump range inflation negates it, or makes it an artificial challenge by limiting yourself, like walking to Spain on your knees.

Imagine if an explorer, seeing combat as a nuisance in the same way you describe travel, came along and said that there is no challenge in fighting NPCs with an engineered ship and system authority do most of the work anyway, so we should be able to insta-gib any NPC with something Ed's godmode tools if we want to get out of an engagement.

Well, the issue is that there are no barriers nor hazards in the ED galaxy beyond very rare close contact binaries and oddball places like the Rift or Rho Cas.
Which means that exploration is akin to air travel and people find it desirable to make it as short as possible.

If jumping into an unknown system was dangerous, and more so if you jump a long distance into it, then the whole perspective is changed. As for now, getting to beagle point is
easier than driving on the motorway for the same number of hours. I.e. not that hard.

Imagine the following : explorers can jump 150 lyr (extreme X-annie + J3 level). Cool. Now, imagine that if you fire that toward anything unknown, you had a 99% chance of
putting the ship in danger. Like faceplanting into a neutron star lower than the drop zone, or crazy stuff like exiting above a 3G world with the ship rebooting. Would you use it for fast travel ?

Now, if said risk where much reduced upon the system being explored at least once, and even more if you know it, and completly removed with nav beacons, we would start to have something interesting.
Especially if players could lay and fabricate nav beacons. You could also imagine FSD probes to send ahead to gather more informations and lower the risks.

That is, actual exploration and pathfinding gameplay.

^^ the Brown dwarf desert field. Nice. Those should be rather safe IMO. Trade off : go to the safer Brown dawrves and miss on fuel, or go easy with refuelling but higher risk ?

And yeah, "crunchy galactic terrain" is exactly what we need.

Also, what if upon jumping, when your jump trajectory is passing close* to ahem massive objects they could :

1) Pull you out. Though you where to exit 50lyr away near a nice G star ? Nope, this is the triple B star system at the 31 lyr mark. And they are so damn hot...
2) Sling you : you though you would exit near a nice safe Brown dwarf 60 lyr away, but there is the issue of this 15 Msol BH just near your trajectory. You suffer a massive
FSD overcharge, you faceplant 150 lyr too far and 30° off course into a neutron star with a destroyed FSD and a ship roasting...

*Note : that would happen a lot in the core. Which would make the core a damn dangerous place...

 

[Straha Yeagar]

Depends how the new exploration game mechanics and the Codex work. Right now it's just 'people want to have fun' vs 'people want lots of load screens to destination to make the galaxy feel big'

It's obvious you can't really have 1 jump to anywhere, because it ruins lots of game mechanics for combat, trading and the point of different fsd classes.

It would probably help players that can't stand lots of repetitive jumps to visit the Thargoids, Guardains and other interesting events.

But nobody would force anyone to use the one jump to get anywhere, right? So what if someone else, and their group wants to drop their wing of engineered Corvettes anywhere they want at any time. People would still be free to look at 1,000 loading screens by going around the bubble seven times anti-clockwise on economical before they get to their combat, right? I mean why should I have to shoot my guns 1,000 times over 15 minutes to blow up a ship? I should be able to do it in 1 second, and if those combat masochists want to face tank over and over, and FA-off circles for half an hour, they are free to do so, but why should I be forced to do it their way? Because my game affects their game right?

Well, exploration is competitive in a way. Other explorers game affects my game. Once something is discovered, I no longer have the opportunity to discover it. Sure, I can visit it, but I can never discover it. Moving beyond individual systems into navigation and other things like that, again, other explorers jump range has a direct affect on my game, because once a route has been discovered, I can no longer discover it, only travel it. Just as PvP pew pewers are competitive against other pew pewers, there is a definite competitive streak in exploration too, where many explorers try to accomplish difficult things first, to be the first to push boundaries, and since we are all playing in a shared mostly persistent galaxy, others jump ranges do have an affect on others game.

 

[Han Zulu]

Does anyone else remember brown dwarfs? They're still in the game somewhere, right?

Oh, yeah. And there actually are a small number of them on the outskirts of the galaxy as well. Once or twice I almost screwed up. Flying out there, you manage the fuel level by only filling up what you need for a jump, so you better know if the next star is a fuel star or not, or you're stuck. Not even using the boost trick can help. Last week I forgot to check the next star, and the fuel gauge was basically 0 (zero), but it was a fuel star, so no problem. About 1 out of 100 maybe are non-fuelers out there, but you better be ready when you do.

 

[Jigster]

I have said it before in other threads and I'll say it again here: I believe that alien-tech-derived stardrives (Thargoid, Guardian or Someone Else, it doesn't matter) that let you jump 600 LY at a time will be in the game within a couple of years. You might have to actually have an alien ship to fly them, or you might be able to install them in any ship. Or maybe only in large ships, or only in small ships. But I believe the 600 LY jump drive is inevitable.

The Galactic Hyperdrive must only be a few years off too. Andromeda here we come!

 

[Morbad]

If you don't like the jump range increase overall, which is a stance I can understand, just use the added boost in another way.

If it exists, it's a factor. Even if one chooses not to use logistical advantages themselves, their competition--whether that be direct as in PvP combat, or indirect as in PP/BGS manipulation or getting first discoveries in fringe areas) most certainly will.

Logistics is a big deal and trivializing it's impacts adds a lot of convenience...at a great cost to many areas of the game.

 

[CMDR Corlas]

I fully agree that FSD range needs to be kept in check. It's important to not let this massive galaxy we have feel too small.

And no "just ignore the gameplay around bettering your ship" is not an even a slightly valid rebuttal.

 

[Han Zulu]

The Galactic Hyperdrive must only be a few years off too. Andromeda here we come!

How crazy that would be if they introduced some super-jump thingy to get to Andromeda... that would be just.... wow. Another 100 billion stars or something (I think Andromeda is smaller than Milky Way).

 

[sollisb]

I fully agree that FSD range needs to be kept in check. It's important to not let this massive galaxy we have feel too small.

And no "just ignore the gameplay around bettering your ship" is not an even a slightly valid rebuttal.

Explain to us, why in your opinion, the FSD should be kept in check? Is the way how other players play so important to you? Does other player's playstyle, effect you in any way? Are you incapable of determining your own usage of the FSD?

I really dislike other people feeling they have any say in how I play my game!

 

[Straha Yeagar]

How crazy that would be if they introduced some super-jump thingy to get to Andromeda... that would be just.... wow. Another 100 billion stars or something (I think Andromeda is smaller than Milky Way).

And if they did it with a fog of exploration, where we actually had to discover things, not just fly to them before anyone else...where the galaxy was largely invisible until travelled through...THAT would be what I would probably literally spend the rest of my life doing.

 

[Straha Yeagar]

Explain to us, why in your opinion, the FSD should be kept in check? Is the way how other players play so important to you? Does other player's playstyle, effect you in any way? Are you incapable of determining your own usage of the FSD?

I really dislike other people feeling they have any say in how I play my game!

It absolutely does since we play in a shared galaxy gamespace. Once someone discovers something, it can never be discovered again, be it a star system, fringe extreme, or a path through difficult to navigate areas such as between spiral arms. Once it has been discovered, all that can be done after that is travelling it.

 

[Jigster]

How crazy that would be if they introduced some super-jump thingy to get to Andromeda... that would be just.... wow. Another 100 billion stars or something (I think Andromeda is smaller than Milky Way).

It would be awesome. It was in the original Elite so only a matter of time...

http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Galactic_Hyperdrive

Squabbling over a few tens of light years extra FSD range? Forget that, this'll do millions of LYs in a single jump!
I was thinking it may only work when harnessing the power of a super massive black hole. I.e. you have to reach Sag A* before you can jump to another galaxy.

 

[Cold Earth]

If it exists, it's a factor. Even if one chooses not to use logistical advantages themselves, their competition--whether that be direct as in PvP combat, or indirect as in PP/BGS manipulation or getting first discoveries in fringe areas) most certainly will.

Logistics is a big deal and trivializing it's impacts adds a lot of convenience...at a great cost to many areas of the game.

Logistics is a big deal to some players and not to others as this thread has shown. As well as “great cost” there is great benefit from increased jump range. It has opened up many new routes and new places to explore that weren’t previously available. Explorers can now reach points previously inaccessible and explore new areas of the galaxy whilst other parts of the galaxy quicker and easier to access for the average player. I agree with the point that the galaxy could be made more dangerous in uncharted / rarely navigated places as it would provide far more interesting exploration and would add new routes for people to plot to avoid these dangers. But the galaxy will never be fully explored and so there will always be new places and new routes to find, regardless of the jump range.

 

[Straha Yeagar]

It would be awesome. It was in the original Elite so only a matter of time...

http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Galactic_Hyperdrive

Squabbling over a few tens of light years extra FSD range? Forget that, this'll do millions of LYs in a single jump!
I was thinking it may only work when harnessing the power of a super massive black hole. I.e. you have to reach Sag A* before you can jump to another galaxy.

Preemptively...

But but but, why should I have to stare at 1000 *sigh* booooring loading screens to take my battle murderhobo Vette to the new galaxy? If you want to watch 37 hours of netflix to get there, your sure can, but why should I have to play the way you want to play? Don't force your game on me!

 

[Han Zulu]

It would be awesome. It was in the original Elite so only a matter of time...

http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Galactic_Hyperdrive

Squabbling over a few tens of light years extra FSD range? Forget that, this'll do millions of LYs in a single jump!
I was thinking it may only work when harnessing the power of a super massive black hole. I.e. you have to reach Sag A* before you can jump to another galaxy.

Good idea. Some gate that you have to jump through, like stargate. But it's taking its power from SagA*