Proposal Discussion Kill Warrant Scanner Feedback
- Thread starter Sandro Sammarco
- Start date
great!
btw, any idea when we will get the official transcript from the last livestream, with the additional Q&A?
Thanks Sandro, differences aside, I'm really appreciating the engagement here.
MillennialDawn
Banned
Some great ideas on this thread, but Frontier are sure to take the easiest route that will appease those who want all the bounty payments and rep relate stuff. The original changes proposed to the KWS were perfectly fine - jurisdiction based, etc. Still, Elite Dangerous seems to be designed based on some type of democratic system. At least, complaints based - when enough people complain something is to hard, or too much 'grind', etc., Frontier finds a way to accommodate such complaints - making the game poorer, and easier, as a result. What a way to design a game...
Yeah, what is all that about? listening to people and finding out what they want, responding to their input and then attempting to please as many people as possible with what they do next? When all they had to do was ask you!
I bet FD were having a proper 'facepalm' moment as they read your post! what fools they must feel!
You could always add more module types, one KWS for each of Federation, Empire, Alliance and Interpol plus the "all bounties" version. Maybe have a bonus for using superpower specific versions, or maybe only those ones reveal the superpower bounties, the "all" one doesn't.
Or have an engineer mod available to activate the "all bounties" feature.
Or have an engineer mod available to activate the "all bounties" feature.
Maybe the solution here is locality.
NPCs generally only have bounties from the local and neighbouring systems.
It's only players that will have bounties from all over the place.
Limit the KWS to revealing bounties from factions within 20LY and the Superpower bounty for the controlling faction.
Problem solved.
NPCs generally only have bounties from the local and neighbouring systems.
It's only players that will have bounties from all over the place.
Limit the KWS to revealing bounties from factions within 20LY and the Superpower bounty for the controlling faction.
Problem solved.
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I'd like mine served with a side order of better paid smuggling.... so I can "test" the system properly without killing players you understand?
And a nice desert too, a good pie perhaps?
MillennialDawn
Banned
They prefer to ask all the people (perhaps like you) who probably wanted a single player game, and don't much play in Open (in this MMO online...). People who like to fly around in ships with no shields or weapons so as to maximise their cargo space, whle pledged to a PowerPlay Power, but not wanting Enforcers to attack them in hostile territory, or not wanting the AI to be able to interdict them and inconvenience them while transporting cargo - basically to play the game like a Microsoft Flight Simulator, but in space.
At least I have a clear vision of how I'd like the game to be, and wouldn't pander to the wants and needs of all and sundry. With me, you know what you'd be getting - and it'd a game a lot closer to the original Elite games. A game with elements of real challenge, full of risk and reward - excitement and disappointment. A proper MMO, not a half-way house - no Solo mode, no Private Groups - pure Open play only. And with that, a properly designed system for crime, piracy, alliances, trading and interaction with other human players, mining, etc. Instead, we can expect a patch-work bodge job coming in this 'Beyond' series - it's written all over these forums... So yeah, they should have just asked me.
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Only problem I see with that is it's likely a higher server/db overhead to go look up all systems within 20ly than either "all bounties please" or "only bounties for x faction" etc
Personally I'd happily compromise between the current beta and live with "all bounties in the system" that at least would fix the rep issues, mostly anyway, some CGs would be harder as some have mentioned, plus a bit less role play, but you know...I'm compromising here
Only problem I see with that is it's likely a higher server/db overhead to go look up all systems within 20ly than either "all bounties please" or "only bounties for x faction" etc
Personally I'd happily compromise between the current beta and live with "all bounties in the system" that at least would fix the rep issues, mostly anyway, some CGs would be harder as some have mentioned, plus a bit less role play, but you know...I'm compromising here
Well, it would only need to do that when a player gets scanned by another player and we all know that doesn't happen much.
Not to mention that there are several ways to serve that info prior to the scan even happening.
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Perhaps the "which superpower" issue could be addressed by using power play? If you are aligned to a super power, then no matter where you are, those are the bounties that are revealed by the KWS. Think of it as a "dial home device" - it passes the perp's ID to the computers for your superpower and it returns the results of everything it holds. If you're not aligned to a super power, then it uses whichever power controls the system you're in as you've proposed. That solves both issues of having the KWS being too powerful, and also the issue of power play in a system where your power isn't the dominant one.
Edit: Alternatively, and to keep things easier to follow, make the KWS a power-play only module. If you're aligned to a super power then it will find all bounties for that power, if you aren't then it won't. Balances the risk/reward with Power Play - get extra income from the KWS but open yourself up for legalised power play killing, or don't get the income and don't run the risk.
Edit: Alternatively, and to keep things easier to follow, make the KWS a power-play only module. If you're aligned to a super power then it will find all bounties for that power, if you aren't then it won't. Balances the risk/reward with Power Play - get extra income from the KWS but open yourself up for legalised power play killing, or don't get the income and don't run the risk.
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I think all bounties from the all minor factions and the superpowers aligned with the minor faction within the system should be able to be claimed (some npcs previously had federation etc. bounties), but only legitimately according to the rules you specified. Otherwise, these proposed changes are looking prety good.
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Wasn't the purpose to improve C&P for the better. But you're overcomplicating the rules and nerfing BH in the same go.
Bravo couldn't done it better.
Bravo couldn't done it better.
Possibly, I guess it depends where the NPC bounties are generated. I mean if I'm hauling cargo and get interdicted by a person "sent against" me, I expect the bounty to be from the system I was sent from, or nearby, but often I KWS and reveal still more. I don't know the process for generation now in live if it's client or server side, but either way it has to be looking at a list of systems somewhere surely?
Not quite sure those 2 things are really compatible
C&P is far more simple to understand now. It's the KWS which is an issue.9
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StefanOS
Volunteer Moderator
On anarchy systems & KWS!
They should be special places, full with OPPORTUNITY FOR GREAT PROFIT and HIGH DANGER! (Perhaps this is the first step to make them finally what they should be from the beginning)
So criminals could use them as bases. YES. They can trade, repair, outfit, refuel there - without police interfering (as long as they are not attacking the station or ships that are working for the local anarchy fractions - I dont think a local anarchy fraction will be pleased if you kill their freighters or local miner ships).
But I think to make the KWS useless there is just not right.
Anarchy systems should be the place to go to find CRIMINALS, especially as BH, because superpowers and their security forces do not care about these systems.
Of cause in an anarchy system any criminal can shoot back and kill a BH without any penalty, also the BH will NOT get any support by local security (crimes on has no affect here).
For the BH its the easiest place in terms of finding some TARGETS but also the MOST DANGEROUS because he is on his OWN doing that, no backup - no help!
As was written before the KWS is a tool ESPECIALLY DESIGNED to show ALL the WARRANTS of a CMDR/SHIP. And I think it should stay that way.
We can talk about
when & if it can legalize an attack or not ( I think it should when the target has bounties in the local system (also from minor fractions) or any other system aligned with the local leading fraction superpower - ( LOCAL BOUNTY has highest priority - if no LOCAL bounty is found, aligned SUPERPOWER BOUNTY can legalize the attack),
how many bounties / reputation you can get (minor fraction reputation is important for BGS),
where you have to go to cash them in (we already have IF)
What the criminal has to pay - jail or not - all the bounties of all superpowers or not ..... (that is only for CMDR)
and many other details...
But the core function is and should be to show ALL the WARRANTS of a CMDR/SHIP. this should work EVERYWHERE in the GALAXY of ELITE: DANGEROUS
BTW: the notoriety decay is very forgiving IMHO..... I predict this is easy exploitable by leaving the ship parked on a pad over night to get in to 0 again.... remember everyone can switch from his HOT SHIP to any CLEAN ship in a view seconds.... so why do we need a so fast decay???
The decay should NOT BE LINEAR but according to the level it should be longer, and the LEVEL should stay UNTIL the decay times is running ( so for LEVEL 6 you are 64 hours LEVEL 6 and then you are clean at 0)
f.example
LEVEL 1 - decay 2 hours
LEVEL 2 - decay 4 hours
LEVEL 3 - decay 8 hours
LEVEL 4 - decay 16 hours
LEVEL 5 - decay 32 hours
LEVEL 6 - decay 64 hours
LEVEL 7 - decay 128 hours
LEVEL 8 - decay 256 hours
LEVEL 9 - decay 512 hours
LEVEL 10 decay 1024 hours
They should be special places, full with OPPORTUNITY FOR GREAT PROFIT and HIGH DANGER! (Perhaps this is the first step to make them finally what they should be from the beginning)
So criminals could use them as bases. YES. They can trade, repair, outfit, refuel there - without police interfering (as long as they are not attacking the station or ships that are working for the local anarchy fractions - I dont think a local anarchy fraction will be pleased if you kill their freighters or local miner ships).
But I think to make the KWS useless there is just not right.
Anarchy systems should be the place to go to find CRIMINALS, especially as BH, because superpowers and their security forces do not care about these systems.
Of cause in an anarchy system any criminal can shoot back and kill a BH without any penalty, also the BH will NOT get any support by local security (crimes on has no affect here).
For the BH its the easiest place in terms of finding some TARGETS but also the MOST DANGEROUS because he is on his OWN doing that, no backup - no help!
As was written before the KWS is a tool ESPECIALLY DESIGNED to show ALL the WARRANTS of a CMDR/SHIP. And I think it should stay that way.
We can talk about
when & if it can legalize an attack or not ( I think it should when the target has bounties in the local system (also from minor fractions) or any other system aligned with the local leading fraction superpower - ( LOCAL BOUNTY has highest priority - if no LOCAL bounty is found, aligned SUPERPOWER BOUNTY can legalize the attack),
how many bounties / reputation you can get (minor fraction reputation is important for BGS),
where you have to go to cash them in (we already have IF)
What the criminal has to pay - jail or not - all the bounties of all superpowers or not ..... (that is only for CMDR)
and many other details...
But the core function is and should be to show ALL the WARRANTS of a CMDR/SHIP. this should work EVERYWHERE in the GALAXY of ELITE: DANGEROUS
BTW: the notoriety decay is very forgiving IMHO..... I predict this is easy exploitable by leaving the ship parked on a pad over night to get in to 0 again.... remember everyone can switch from his HOT SHIP to any CLEAN ship in a view seconds.... so why do we need a so fast decay???
The decay should NOT BE LINEAR but according to the level it should be longer, and the LEVEL should stay UNTIL the decay times is running ( so for LEVEL 6 you are 64 hours LEVEL 6 and then you are clean at 0)
f.example
LEVEL 1 - decay 2 hours
LEVEL 2 - decay 4 hours
LEVEL 3 - decay 8 hours
LEVEL 4 - decay 16 hours
LEVEL 5 - decay 32 hours
LEVEL 6 - decay 64 hours
LEVEL 7 - decay 128 hours
LEVEL 8 - decay 256 hours
LEVEL 9 - decay 512 hours
LEVEL 10 decay 1024 hours
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MillennialDawn
Banned
Why would a system in a state of anarchy have the resources to facilitate law enforcement. The whole point of an anarchy is that there is minimal law and order. The KWS should *not* work in every system in the galaxy - certainly not in systems with Compromised Nav Beacons. Furthermore, some of us would appreciate seeing empty systems utilised for piracy and criminals - perhaps with a label of LAWLESS. In such empty systems the KWW should not function at all. If the KWS is to function in anarchy systems, then it should pay out a far lower amount due to the inefficiency of the government - or lack-there-of - operating in that system.
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It's very easy to write 1024 hours, right? Have you calculated that your suggestion would require 85 DAYS of gameplay to recover? By the mere numbers you write, you make your variation of the often heard suggestion absolutely unacceptable.
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It's still a game, punishment for crime is good, but you also have to do it with measure. The propsed "one per two hours" drop is too soft in my eyes. It's really a "stay AFK in game overnight, be fine again when you come home from work" mechanic. It's not doing a lot. But your draconic numbers are actually much worse for the game.
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That all being said, i still would promote a very different idea:
- Keep the 1 or 2 hour timer for notoriety decay.
- Instead of simply reducing notoriety, send the player a mission.
- If the misison is completed, notoriety is reduced by 1.
- If the mission is failed or rejected, offer another one later.
.
Mind, you, it doesn't need to be hard missions. Just require the player to visit a detention center or some other place. Merely going there and turning in the mission would suffice. On when you get the next mission, i'd differentiate:
- When the mission is failed (or completed but there's still notoriety left), the next one will be offered one or two hours later.
- When the mission is rejected, so the player is a "career criminal", getting another mission every hour will be annoying. So whenever the mission is rejected, double the time till the next one is offered, up to a maximum of four weeks.
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This system would prevent AFK-ing notoriety off, while turning redemption from crime into an actual gameplay component, without needing extreme timers.