The combat focus of the game

I agree completely with the OP.

When the new Chieftain was announced I was very thrilled, then I heard it's a combat focused ship I was like "ugh typical".
I very much hope the Krait will be different but I expect the worst, another combat ship.

400 billion stars and the biggest focus is pointed at killing eachother.

A shame realy.
 
Lately, well, actually the last two years, when I think about it, most new toys that have been added to the game have been combat focused. There have been a lot of quality of life upgrades as well and general game polishing, but the toys have been guns and things that are for using guns. Yes, there have been limpets, but that's about it.

There is multicrew, which also can be used for scanning and sightseeing, but since there are no other functions in place, the main function seems to be the gunner job, which also comes with a pretty arcade-style view around the ship (arcade and Elite in one sentence makes me cringe, actually).

The game has ship launched fighters, even three different kinds with different loadouts. The same mechanic could be used to add scientific drones to do other things than fighting, remote mining drones, collector drones for grabbing stuff without limpets or cargo scooping. I would have loved to have ship launched vessels, including a fighter, not restricted to.

Engineers gave us the ability to mod our ships, but as far as I know experimental effects have only been for weapons (which changes with 3.0, I think, which is lovely).

The return of the Thargoid gave us a scanner, research limpets (which give us samples which don't really have a use right now) and a shutdown field neutralizer, and apart from that lots of anti thargoid weaponry. Since the Thargoid stuff is still going on, that hopefully changes. At the moment though it doesn't look like that.

When thinking back to the Frontier Expo, the new Guardian tech shown also was guns. I am pretty sure we only saw a sneak peek to make us drool, but I didn't. Alien tech guns look cool, but in Elite I really have no use for them. I love the idea of getting my hands on Guardian hybrid tech for my endeavors at the ruins, but if that will be guns only, I really don't have an incentive (I'd play the content for sure, but the guns would go on the pile I guess).

The tech brokers in the beta also only had experimental weapons. What about some specials for scanners, fuel scoops, thrusters that are especially useful in high G environments, heat sink launchers that also include a system helping with managing heat in general, or something that makes us stay longer in Silent Running mode without overheating... Actually, everything else than guns would be welcome and I really hope that's coming.

I love the T10 (yes, I know, that's discussable), but it's a combat ship again. For 3.0 the featured ship, the Chieftain, is also a combat ship. It's an awesome design, and pretty useful for players who love to fight, but again, combat.


Of course, there will be the new looks for planets, which is actually what I look forward to most in 3.0, and more stuff for exploration and mining has been announced, but I really hope that won't just be a few focused updates and then back to guns. I hope it will also mark a point where the game gets more and more toys dedicated to other roles than combat ones.

What makes Elite unique is the galaxy simulation based on astronomical data, on science (hearing that so often, it starts to sound silly), It's the game's most advertised feature and an accomplishment itself in my oppinion. I am a bit sad that so far not much is done with it, and I don't mean work on celestial bodies and planet surfaces and all, but actual gameplay. ED has the most scientifically correct suns, and planets, and whatsnot in the most correct simulation of our galaxy for a game to date, but instead of more interaction with it, there's more and more ways of interacting with other ships. Via guns.

TL;DR: Many, many, many (and more) games do the gun-thing. Elite gives us a brilliant galaxy simulation based on science and then also does the gun-thing a lot. I'd love to see this changing. The Elite gun lobby has enough toys by now. Time for more science.

I'm totally with you. I'm sick to the back teeth of

GUNS, GUNS, GUNS, GUNS, GUNS, GUNS, GUNS, GUNS, GUNS, FIGHTER, GUNS, GUNS and ever more damned GUNS.

ED has the potential to be SO much more, but in over two years I've seen next to zero interest from FDev to promote any other aspect of the game other than warfare. We have had story telling elements like the Guardians, but not a single new mechanic has come out of this that isn't warfare orientated.

I'm hopeful for what Q4 might bring to the game that ISN'T warfare orientated... But bitter experience with FDev has taught me to be very sceptical when it comes to this subject. It doubt it will get anything more than a face lift at the end of the day [blah]

I Sincerely hope I'm proved very very wrong, I really do. Some serious love for the other game careers would be so very welcomed by so many of the ED community. Lord knows enough suggestions have been put to FDev in the hope that some of these will be taken up.

But as of now, the gun lobby in ED has as much a strangle hold on the game, as the gun lobby in the US has on ensuring that guns sales are safeguarded, regardless of however many lives it costs... [knocked out]

Edit. And before you say, what about the trade improvements in 3.0, I'd like to point out that this is a face lift, not a change in any of the game mechanics. They could have redesigned the commodity screen... But they didn't [sad]
 
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+1.

I truly had high hopes ED could finally be the space game that would finally bring something else to the table rather than the same-old same-old space shooter #3123123. Why all the trouble of coming up with a 1:1 galaxy, modelled after the real milky way, based on real scientific principles, just to deliver the standard issue shoot something?

I understand that focusing nearly solely on combat makes life easier for the devs, combat gameplay is simple, no innovation necessary, just add some things that move around and shoot back and work is done. But still...

I know Q4 is finally going to add some space exploration into this galaxy sized space game, and I'm trying to keep a bit of hope it might be somewhat worthwhile. But based on the past 3 years...
 
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Lately, well, actually the last two years, when I think about it, most new toys that have been added to the game have been combat focused. There have been a lot of quality of life upgrades as well and general game polishing, but the toys have been guns and things that are for using guns. Yes, there have been limpets, but that's about it.

There is multicrew, which also can be used for scanning and sightseeing, but since there are no other functions in place, the main function seems to be the gunner job, which also comes with a pretty arcade-style view around the ship (arcade and Elite in one sentence makes me cringe, actually).

The game has ship launched fighters, even three different kinds with different loadouts. The same mechanic could be used to add scientific drones to do other things than fighting, remote mining drones, collector drones for grabbing stuff without limpets or cargo scooping. I would have loved to have ship launched vessels, including a fighter, not restricted to.

Engineers gave us the ability to mod our ships, but as far as I know experimental effects have only been for weapons (which changes with 3.0, I think, which is lovely).

The return of the Thargoid gave us a scanner, research limpets (which give us samples which don't really have a use right now) and a shutdown field neutralizer, and apart from that lots of anti thargoid weaponry. Since the Thargoid stuff is still going on, that hopefully changes. At the moment though it doesn't look like that.

When thinking back to the Frontier Expo, the new Guardian tech shown also was guns. I am pretty sure we only saw a sneak peek to make us drool, but I didn't. Alien tech guns look cool, but in Elite I really have no use for them. I love the idea of getting my hands on Guardian hybrid tech for my endeavors at the ruins, but if that will be guns only, I really don't have an incentive (I'd play the content for sure, but the guns would go on the pile I guess).

The tech brokers in the beta also only had experimental weapons. What about some specials for scanners, fuel scoops, thrusters that are especially useful in high G environments, heat sink launchers that also include a system helping with managing heat in general, or something that makes us stay longer in Silent Running mode without overheating... Actually, everything else than guns would be welcome and I really hope that's coming.

I love the T10 (yes, I know, that's discussable), but it's a combat ship again. For 3.0 the featured ship, the Chieftain, is also a combat ship. It's an awesome design, and pretty useful for players who love to fight, but again, combat.


Of course, there will be the new looks for planets, which is actually what I look forward to most in 3.0, and more stuff for exploration and mining has been announced, but I really hope that won't just be a few focused updates and then back to guns. I hope it will also mark a point where the game gets more and more toys dedicated to other roles than combat ones.

What makes Elite unique is the galaxy simulation based on astronomical data, on science (hearing that so often, it starts to sound silly), It's the game's most advertised feature and an accomplishment itself in my oppinion. I am a bit sad that so far not much is done with it, and I don't mean work on celestial bodies and planet surfaces and all, but actual gameplay. ED has the most scientifically correct suns, and planets, and whatsnot in the most correct simulation of our galaxy for a game to date, but instead of more interaction with it, there's more and more ways of interacting with other ships. Via guns.

TL;DR: Many, many, many (and more) games do the gun-thing. Elite gives us a brilliant galaxy simulation based on science and then also does the gun-thing a lot. I'd love to see this changing. The Elite gun lobby has enough toys by now. Time for more science.

Agreed 1000% and very well said. Particularly this part here:

Elite gives us a brilliant galaxy simulation based on science and then also does the gun-thing a lot. I'd love to see this changing. The Elite gun lobby has enough toys by now. Time for more science.

Yes, it's time for more science. It's really time for more anything non-combat related. A LOT more. Combat is very fleshed out and in a great spot now compared to every other aspect of the game, it's way past time to shift the focus.

This was my greatest hope for Beyond and 2018, and it seems to partly be the case, yet the Q1 update has once again an awful lot of combat content in it. Yes it fixed the planets finally and it improves trading mechanics so at least it's not all combat this time, but combat is still getting an equal or greater share of development. This balance needs to shift more for a few updates.

Hopefully the rest of Beyond and 2018 is squarely non-combat focused and brings the rest of the game up to combat's level. It's sorely needed.
 
I play 7 Days to Die but only in creative mode. That's because I like building stuff. It doesn't mean the game should focus more on creative folks, but it has improved since it was first developed in that area.

I think a game developer should have a mental blueprint for the game and go that direction, but they should also be open to new ideas and "emergent gameplay" changes. Non-combat roles aren't emergent, they are built in to the game. There just isn't much they can do about most of it without affecting the other roles as well. Most of the things they could do could imbalance PvP or even PvE where NPCs are concerned. Alien technology in a game like this is basically a buff to some module.
 
Agreed 1000% and very well said. Particularly this part here:



Yes, it's time for more science. It's really time for more anything non-combat related. A LOT more. Combat is very fleshed out and in a great spot now compared to every other aspect of the game, it's way past time to shift the focus.

This was my greatest hope for Beyond and 2018, and it seems to partly be the case, yet the Q1 update has once again an awful lot of combat content in it. Yes it fixed the planets finally and it improves trading mechanics so at least it's not all combat this time, but combat is still getting an equal or greater share of development. This balance needs to shift more for a few updates.

Hopefully the rest of Beyond and 2018 is squarely non-combat focused and brings the rest of the game up to combat's level. It's sorely needed.

I also have high hopes for Beyond. But what I actually hope is not that we get some content for exploration and mining and trading, but that non-combat gamplay gets a fundament on which more stuff can be build. I'm looking forward to Beyond very much, but I am also a bit sceptical about it, because I fear that it will just add a few closed up systems and done.
Actually also why I started this thread. I think Fdev is on a good path with what has been announced for Beyond, and overhauling engineers and crime and punishment might have been needed for core of the system, but I hope that this is it now and we finally get some tools to interact with the rest of the galaxy.

To make this clear: I don't complain about the Beyond stuff. I pretty much think it will be awesome, but I really wouldn't want a one-time exploration update and that's it. The announced codex sounds like a wonderful idea, but it won't be very interesting if we can't add new and detailed things. And there is a lot that can be done concerning science in space. Lots and lots and lots. In the Braben I trust. Make it so, please.
 
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I wholeheartedly agree with OP, but I'm afraid I'll be the bad news bringer here.
Look out of the window. See that big, green, evil Thargoid getting red and y?

Guess what future brings to Elite when they're nearing our home.

I'm not holding my breath. "That would be unwise" (wonder who gets that reference, lol)
 
I play 7 Days to Die but only in creative mode. That's because I like building stuff. It doesn't mean the game should focus more on creative folks, but it has improved since it was first developed in that area.

I think a game developer should have a mental blueprint for the game and go that direction, but they should also be open to new ideas and "emergent gameplay" changes. Non-combat roles aren't emergent, they are built in to the game. There just isn't much they can do about most of it without affecting the other roles as well. Most of the things they could do could imbalance PvP or even PvE where NPCs are concerned. Alien technology in a game like this is basically a buff to some module.

How would taking ground samples, adding scientific drones to the SLF list, retrieving stuff for scientists, crashed meteor POIs with samples to take, reading out radiation on gas giants and stars, deploying satellites in orbits of planets for long term readings or a lab branch in station menus where we could deliver stuff we found imbalance PvP or PvE? These are just a few small ideas of how we could interact with celestial bodies. Most of those are also based on systems which are already in the game.
 
I wholeheartedly agree with OP, but I'm afraid I'll be the bad news bringer here.
Look out of the window. See that big, green, evil Thargoid getting red and y?

Guess what future brings to Elite when they're nearing our home.

I'm not holding my breath. "That would be unwise" (wonder who gets that reference, lol)

Hey, isn't there only a charred hand left of you? (got this reference? ;) )
And yeah, Thargoids will stay on the front page. But that's not a bad thing. I like how they stir up things and somehow hope that they will also stir up the bubble a bit.
 
As someone who plays does mostly assassinations, bounty hunting with a bit of exploration, i have to admit that ED lacks a lot regarding any other activity except missions/Combat/trading.


I wish i was able to track people, have nice visualisation of planets and have criminal ranks just like this:


29248484074_45d7fbac0f_b.jpg


QMLI


attachment.php
 
Lately, well, actually the last two years, when I think about it, most new toys that have been added to the game have been combat focused. There have been a lot of quality of life upgrades as well and general game polishing, but the toys have been guns and things that are for using guns. Yes, there have been limpets, but that's about it.
I realized this quite a while ago, almost a year ago, and you can see the combat focus on how the exploration and mining mechanics work as well. You shoot things to mine and to harvest materials. And weirdly enough, the shield on the srv doesn't protect you from rocks, only weapons. And if you want to be able to dump fuel for jump optimization for deep space exploration, you get get a rail gun and engineer it for fuel slug, i.e. use a weapon, again, to supply with a utility for exploration.

The game is amazing, but whoever designs the ideas for the new modules and features in the game is very combat oriented. Combat is fun, but I hope there will be more non-combat technology made for mining and exploration.

...
Of course, there will be the new looks for planets, which is actually what I look forward to most in 3.0, and more stuff for exploration and mining has been announced, but I really hope that won't just be a few focused updates and then back to guns. I hope it will also mark a point where the game gets more and more toys dedicated to other roles than combat ones.
Exactly.

What makes Elite unique is the galaxy simulation based on astronomical data, on science (hearing that so often, it starts to sound silly), It's the game's most advertised feature and an accomplishment itself in my oppinion. I am a bit sad that so far not much is done with it, and I don't mean work on celestial bodies and planet surfaces and all, but actual gameplay. ED has the most scientifically correct suns, and planets, and whatsnot in the most correct simulation of our galaxy for a game to date, but instead of more interaction with it, there's more and more ways of interacting with other ships. Via guns.
Behind ya' 100%.

TL;DR: Many, many, many (and more) games do the gun-thing. Elite gives us a brilliant galaxy simulation based on science and then also does the gun-thing a lot. I'd love to see this changing. The Elite gun lobby has enough toys by now. Time for more science.
Yup. Elite Dangerous has a unique position in the game industry to do things that no one can do currently, create game play that is galaxy wide. Every other game has space pirates and space combat. Don't need more of that. Need more of all other things.
 
Hey, isn't there only a charred hand left of you? (got this reference? ;) )
And yeah, Thargoids will stay on the front page. But that's not a bad thing. I like how they stir up things and somehow hope that they will also stir up the bubble a bit.

Oh, you got the source of my nickname spot-on, Commander! Nicely done :)
Though I was making Stargate SG-1 reference, and I just realized I also misquoted, lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--HHz7x6sVs

As to Thargoids: I have a feeling the future will be shaped by that conflict, unless they just light some Aegis offices on fire and decide they'll place good dog from there on.
Their arrival certainly adds a lot of spice to galactic stuff, but I think because of that, conflict (and pew-pew) will be the driving force.
 
Oh, you got the source of my nickname spot-on, Commander! Nicely done :)
Though I was making Stargate SG-1 reference, and I just realized I also misquoted, lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--HHz7x6sVs

As to Thargoids: I have a feeling the future will be shaped by that conflict, unless they just light some Aegis offices on fire and decide they'll place good dog from there on.
Their arrival certainly adds a lot of spice to galactic stuff, but I think because of that, conflict (and pew-pew) will be the driving force.

When the return of the Thargoids has been annouinced my first thought was "hybrid tech!", which included guns, but also lots of other stuff. So combat, yes, but also science. Like with the Guardians. All the lore we were able to read (and I read it all), told us a lot about their culture and technical accomplishments, and not many of these were about weapons. There is a lot about communication and how they propelled their ships into space with, I think, magnetic rails.
What we saw so far of the coming Guardian hybrid tech stuff was guns. Perhaps, and hopefully, because those look very cool and many modules are built into ships and are hard to show off with. I really hope the Guardians, and also the Thargoids bring us more than just pew pew. At least the Guardians' culture and tech has much more to offer.

(EDIT: Thanks to your nick, John, Black Hand Inn is now stuck in my brain though I didn't listen to it for years. :D )
 
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Lately, well, actually the last two years, when I think about it, most new toys that have been added to the game have been combat focused. There have been a lot of quality of life upgrades as well and general game polishing, but the toys have been guns and things that are for using guns. Yes, there have been limpets, but that's about it.

There is multicrew, which also can be used for scanning and sightseeing, but since there are no other functions in place, the main function seems to be the gunner job, which also comes with a pretty arcade-style view around the ship (arcade and Elite in one sentence makes me cringe, actually).

The game has ship launched fighters, even three different kinds with different loadouts. The same mechanic could be used to add scientific drones to do other things than fighting, remote mining drones, collector drones for grabbing stuff without limpets or cargo scooping. I would have loved to have ship launched vessels, including a fighter, not restricted to.

Engineers gave us the ability to mod our ships, but as far as I know experimental effects have only been for weapons (which changes with 3.0, I think, which is lovely).

The return of the Thargoid gave us a scanner, research limpets (which give us samples which don't really have a use right now) and a shutdown field neutralizer, and apart from that lots of anti thargoid weaponry. Since the Thargoid stuff is still going on, that hopefully changes. At the moment though it doesn't look like that.

When thinking back to the Frontier Expo, the new Guardian tech shown also was guns. I am pretty sure we only saw a sneak peek to make us drool, but I didn't. Alien tech guns look cool, but in Elite I really have no use for them. I love the idea of getting my hands on Guardian hybrid tech for my endeavors at the ruins, but if that will be guns only, I really don't have an incentive (I'd play the content for sure, but the guns would go on the pile I guess).

The tech brokers in the beta also only had experimental weapons. What about some specials for scanners, fuel scoops, thrusters that are especially useful in high G environments, heat sink launchers that also include a system helping with managing heat in general, or something that makes us stay longer in Silent Running mode without overheating... Actually, everything else than guns would be welcome and I really hope that's coming.

I love the T10 (yes, I know, that's discussable), but it's a combat ship again. For 3.0 the featured ship, the Chieftain, is also a combat ship. It's an awesome design, and pretty useful for players who love to fight, but again, combat.


Of course, there will be the new looks for planets, which is actually what I look forward to most in 3.0, and more stuff for exploration and mining has been announced, but I really hope that won't just be a few focused updates and then back to guns. I hope it will also mark a point where the game gets more and more toys dedicated to other roles than combat ones.

What makes Elite unique is the galaxy simulation based on astronomical data, on science (hearing that so often, it starts to sound silly), It's the game's most advertised feature and an accomplishment itself in my oppinion. I am a bit sad that so far not much is done with it, and I don't mean work on celestial bodies and planet surfaces and all, but actual gameplay. ED has the most scientifically correct suns, and planets, and whatsnot in the most correct simulation of our galaxy for a game to date, but instead of more interaction with it, there's more and more ways of interacting with other ships. Via guns.

TL;DR: Many, many, many (and more) games do the gun-thing. Elite gives us a brilliant galaxy simulation based on science and then also does the gun-thing a lot. I'd love to see this changing. The Elite gun lobby has enough toys by now. Time for more science.

Elite Gun Lobby. Perfect. :)
 
That’s what the Q4 update is for.

FD said so. Given FD's past record, I won't believe it until I see it. Meanwhile, OP's post is valid. Sorry FD but you had it coming.

Hopefully, Beyond as a whole will fix non combat game play. Last chance as far as I'm concerned.

To be fair though, 3.1 seems to be a step in the right direction so... fingers crossed.
 
As someone who plays does mostly assassinations, bounty hunting with a bit of exploration, i have to admit that ED lacks a lot regarding any other activity except missions/Combat/trading.


I wish i was able to track people, have nice visualisation of planets and have criminal ranks just like this:


https://c3.staticflickr.com/9/8195/29248484074_45d7fbac0f_b.jpg

http://gdurl.com/QMLI

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=74379&d=1447081103

Tools for tracking, marking spots on planets and things like that apart from bookmarks would be lovely in general. Also for exploration to mark special findings and stuff. I actually hope that part is coming with Q4.
 
Speaking as a combat player, even I feel they made too much of a deliberate effort to cater to pew-pew: combat would have done excellently for half the content FD have given it, but for that content to be well conceived. What we have is effectively multiple seasons spent on developing imbalance (engineering) and a handful of gimmicks. I don't think I've seen a single multi-crewed vessel out in the wild and I know I've not used it.
 
Speaking as a combat player, even I feel they made too much of a deliberate effort to cater to pew-pew: combat would have done excellently for half the content FD have given it, but for that content to be well conceived. What we have is effectively multiple seasons spent on developing imbalance (engineering) and a handful of gimmicks. I don't think I've seen a single multi-crewed vessel out in the wild and I know I've not used it.

I'm combat-oriented but I'd love Sandro to introduce a shield nerf....then STOP! Just STOP!!

I think there are simply far too many permutations/combinations of weapons/effects & counters. Some complexity is great, but imo the current state of this game has created a '...wood for the trees' (or the clichéd 'rock/paper/scissors') situation...certainly for a casual player like myself. Factor in the Thargoid weaponry & yet more weps in 3.0 & urgghhh, I'm done!

Maybe players with more time to devote to this, such as StiTch, Morbad & Truesilver feel differently!

#nomoreeffingweaponsplease
 
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