Anti-Shield Booster Limpets

[CMDR Corlas]

Especially with the coming rework of limpet controllers, it would be cool to see limpets in much wider use.

I would like to see to an anti-shield booster limpet. Fire it at an enemy ship, and if that ship has a shield booster, the limpet will try to attach itself to it. Once attached, it'll hijack the power from the booster and self-detonate in a half-second, destroying the shield booster and the limpet.

These could be defended against three ways:

1. Use point defense to take out the limpet in-flight, but once attached, it's not targetable, as it functions as part of your ship.
2. Use ECM to disable the limpet in-flight, but once attached, it's non disableable, same as you don't disable yourself.
3. Turn off your shield boosters; an off booster won't be targeted by the limpet, and if a limpet attaches and you turn it off in time, the limpet just falls off, inert.

Aside from the direct combat implications of this, there's other side benefits as well:

1. Discourages defense stacking by encouraging combat ships to carry a limpet controller and a cargo.
2. Discourages defense stacking by encouraging shield-tanks to carry point defenses or ECM.
3. Makes placement of boosters and point defense a bit more interesting.
4. Gives an offensive boost to ships like miners and scavengers - ships that already carry limpets, but might have an extra controller slot when we can do that.

 

[JohnRoberts]

You can have your Anti-Shield Booster Limpet, if I can have my Anti-Hardpoint Limpet. Ok?

 

[CMDR Corlas]

I was thinking about that too, yeah. Could be interesting, but I think taking out a weapon in one hit would be too powerful. Maybe you could say that it's not as easy for the limpet to hack into the power running through the module, so instead it makes that weapon have a X jitter for the life of the limpet, or fully disables the hardpoint for the life of the limpet, or something like that.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I think a limpet that permantently strips the engineering (and/or special effect) of a hardpoint would be just excellent.

 

[CMDR Corlas]

lol

 

[JohnRoberts]

I think this would make people think twice before attacking a trade ship - you might kill it and leave that guy at the rebuy screen, but you might also loose a couple of G5 mods in the process, that will cost you time and materials to have re-engineered.

It moves these engagements from being totally asymmetrical, and introduces some genuine risk for the attacker.

 

[CMDR Corlas]

Don't get me wrong here - I'm not a ganker, I'm not a pirate, I don't even PvP (although I'd be open to it, if the balance could be improved), and I'd like traders to have good defensive options and for attackers to have some real risk - but realistically, I don't think FD is the kind of company that would do something like that. Just going off how hesitant they are to address balance issues they themselves acknowledge when a chance would take something away from the player.

If you have other ideas for this though, I would be interested to see them, in their own thread.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

I think this would make people think twice before attacking a trade ship

Seems unlikely

1) Limpets are slow, short-ranged, and easily countered. No-one is going to get hit by one unless they're really not paying attention. This one also, I think, makes them not very useful for the original suggestion: it'd basically be a reverb cascade torpedo with less resilience and more ammo, and that's already a pretty weak attack against most targets. The one current offensive limpet - hatchbreakers - basically requires disabling the target first to be much use, and that's designed for use against slow freighters already.
2) You presumably either don't have any engineered weapons or are happy for someone to interdict you, launch a limpet swarm, and remove them from you? Remember that the "bad guys" can use any "ultimate weapon" against the "good guys" too.
3) Any trade ship that's got space to reduce its profitability by fitting a limpet controller and carrying some limpets has space to fit a basically invulnerable shield in the first place. Even if it works in theory it'll just go on the list of "don't tell me to fit defenses!" reactions to being destroyed.
4) Limpet controllers show up on subsystem scans. So no-one's going to get surprised by one, which - given 1 - would be necessary to actually land a hit.
5) Any ship weak enough to be destroyed by an attacker in the first place is probably weak enough to also be destroyed by the same attacker with either unengineered weapons or the extremely cheap G3 weapons. With remote engineering coming in 3.0, they could redo G3 mods on their weapons in a minute at any station, for trivial material costs.

 

[JohnRoberts]

To be clear, Ian, my response was deliberately facetious. I don't think opening the door to "weaponizing" limpets is good.

 

[CMDR BOSLEY]

Why not just a limpet targets any module you choose and "drills" into it damaging them slowly(not to slow) over time, and ecm will still work even it it already is attached. Imagine one on your canopy.

 

[ebbrell]

Why are people so against shields, they don't last that long really. long battles are better then quick deaths

 

[CMDR BOSLEY]

Why are people so against shields, they don't last that long really. long battles are better then quick deaths

Agree on that, but still think a module(any module attacking limpet would be cool. But i also think limpets shouldn't pass through shield unless torpedoes can as well. Personally i wouldn't allow either to pass through but to make up for it i would buff torpedoes and the attack speed of the limpet. This would apply to hatchbreakers too

 

[CMDR Corlas]

Why not just a limpet targets any module you choose and "drills" into it damaging them slowly(not to slow) over time, and ecm will still work even it it already is attached. Imagine one on your canopy.

I think that could be interesting (even though it makes me think of the Star Wars prequels), but balancing it properly would be very difficult. Shield Booster-only isn't nearly as problematic, because it still keeps the bulk of the player's defenses intact.

I think anything that makes non-defense-stacking modules appeal to combat players is a good thing though. It's not about being anti-shield, or trying to cater to pew-pewers, it's about bringing the ship builds of combat players more in line with the rest of the professions - in terms of getting them to value things other than defense stacking, and so helping to iron down the large by-design imbalances that exist there.

 

[CMDR BOSLEY]

I think that could be interesting (even though it makes me think of the Star Wars prequels), but balancing it properly would be very difficult. Shield Booster-only isn't nearly as problematic, because it still keeps the bulk of the player's defenses intact.

I think anything that makes non-defense-stacking modules appeal to combat players is a good thing though. It's not about being anti-shield, or trying to cater to pew-pewers, it's about bringing the ship builds of combat players more in line with the rest of the professions - in terms of getting them to value things other than defense stacking, and so helping to iron down the large by-design imbalances that exist there.

I don't think enemy limpets should be able to bypass shields for the record

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

can you first try the new anti-shield booster flak that will just release tomorrow, before asking for more?

 

[CMDR Corlas]

I don't think enemy limpets should be able to bypass shields for the record

I'm the opposite, I like that they do. It adds variety to play and makes shields less of a do-everything wonder-item. I'd also support your previous comment of making torpedoes pass through shields as well.

can you first try the new anti-shield booster flak that will just release tomorrow, before asking for more?

It's not a matter of "more", it's that I think a module that accomplishes the effect via stored cargo is inherently superior to a new weapon type that does it. (also, was in the open beta, did try it already )

 

[CMDR BOSLEY]

I'm the opposite, I like that they do. It adds variety to play and makes shields less of a do-everything wonder-item. I'd also support your previous comment of making torpedoes pass through shields as well.



It's not a matter of "more", it's that I think a module that accomplishes the effect via stored cargo is inherently superior to a new weapon type that does it. (also, was in the open beta, did try it already )

While i don't think they should they already do so for consistency the torpedo should as well, the reason i don't think they should though is lore/science wise why are they passing through but not your missile and other projectiles. If anything can pass through why bother have shields in the first place it's not as if lasers are that effective against hull. There needs to be consistentcy.

 

[CMDR BOSLEY]

Furthermore why if you have the tech to bypass the shield would you have your device be just targeting a shield booster if you're a weapons manufacturer you're just going to have a shaped charge explosive device to maximize damage. Even my version of your limpet wouls be dumb in comparison.

 

[CMDR Corlas]

Furthermore why if you have the tech to bypass the shield would you have your device be just targeting a shield booster if your a weapons manufacturer you're just going to have a shaped charge explosive device to maximize damage. Even my version of your limpet wouls be dumb in comparison.

Well, given that our limpets, SRV's, SLF's, landing gear, and any cargo we're scooping or dropping already pass through our shields, I think the lore justification is that if items are moving slowly enough, they pass through. Except for slowly running into things. Unless it's with your landing gear.

Ultimately, it's just because it's a game, and so it's for gameplay purposes. If FD made people turn off their shields before docking, or launching an SLF, or scooping cargo, it'd annoy a lot of people. I like hardcore sims, but not everyone does. A game is pretty much always going to have some fuzzy bits where things are done more for fun than realism.

However, your shield-bypass shaped-charge explosive device is... a torpedo, right? Make 'em bypass shields!

 

[CMDR BOSLEY]

Well, given that our limpets, SRV's, SLF's, landing gear, and any cargo we're scooping or dropping already pass through our shields, I think the lore justification is that if items are moving slowly enough, they pass through. Except for slowly running into things. Unless it's with your landing gear.

Ultimately, it's just because it's a game, and so it's for gameplay purposes. If FD made people turn off their shields before docking, or launching an SLF, or scooping cargo, it'd annoy a lot of people. I like hardcore sims, but not everyone does. A game is pretty much always going to have some fuzzy bits where things are done more for fun than realism.

However, your shield-bypass shaped-charge explosive device is... a torpedo, right? Make 'em bypass shields!

You're right it would be a torpedo, but that just begs the question if you're aim is to kill the person why not just blow them up instead of targeting a booster. Why do missiles not have the ability to pass through shields its not as if they can't slow down to pass through. What about ship collisions not taking damage through shields as well. lol or a nuke that passes through shields.