Astronomy / Space NASA: New "impossible" engine works, could change space travel forever

Rog

Rog
NASA: New "Impossible" Engine Works, Could Change Space Travel Forever.

Until yesterday, everyone in the international community was laughing at this engine and its inventor, Roger Sawyer. It's called the EmDrive and everyone said it was impossible because it goes against classical mechanics. But the fact is that the quantum vacuum plasma thruster works and scientists can't explain why.

Sawyer's engine is extremely light and simple. It provides a thrust by "bouncing microwaves around in a closed container." The microwaves are generated using electricity that can be provided by solar energy. No propellant is necessary, which means that this thrusters can work forever unless a hardware failure occurs. If real, this would be a major breakthrough in space propulsion technology.
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Here's a presentation by the head boffin, Roger Shawyer:
http://www.emdrive.com/interview.html

It has potential uses in long-haul air travel too!
 

Thargon

Thargon
NASA reported that the "thrust" force generated that was so low that it could be a botched experiment tying to prove it.
 

Rog

Rog
NASA technical report here:
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?R=20140006052

Test results indicate that the RF resonant cavity thruster design, which is unique as an electric propulsion device, is producing a force that is not attributable to any classical electromagnetic phenomenon and therefore is potentially demonstrating an interaction with the quantum vacuum virtual plasma. Future test plans include independent verification and validation at other test facilities.
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Rog

Rog
It could all be a load of codswallop, but thought it might be interesting. :)

Sure we'll find out sooner or later.
 

Capt. Hook

Capt. Hook
reading the article a couple of things spring to mind;
1. is it true?
2. is it true a UK company has patented the process?
3. is it true?


EDIT: New Scientist interviewed the inventor Roger Shaylor back in 2006 over the EMdrive. For those with subscriptions to the magazine read the article here: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19125681.400-relativity-drive-the-end-of-wings-and-wheels.html

Publisher's Blog (no sub needed) can be read here: http://www.newscientist.com/blog/fromthepublisher/2006/10/emdrive-on-trial.html
 
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Hydrino

Hydrino
Capt. Hook said:
reading the article a couple of things spring to mind;
1. is it true?
2. is it true a UK company has patented the process?
3. is it true?


EDIT: New Scientist interviewed the inventor Roger Shaylor back in 2006 over the EMdrive. For those with subscriptions to the magazine read the article here: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19125681.400-relativity-drive-the-end-of-wings-and-wheels.html

Publisher's Blog (no sub needed) can be read here: http://www.newscientist.com/blog/fromthepublisher/2006/10/emdrive-on-trial.html
Click to expand...

Unfortunately the paper gives the result but has no test data, no graphs, etc. that I can find. The test was not done in vacuum which is a major flaw considering the conclusion: "within a stainless steel vacuum chamber with the door closed but at ambient atmospheric pressure." My emphasis. Also, the second device that was modified so it should not work, also worked according to the paper ... very odd and not commented on at all.

I am sure if it does work there is a classical explanation. In the 1990s, Nasa tested a claimed antigravity device that used spinning superconductors and reported positive results that were later retracted due to interference from the device itself with the measuring instruments. Then we had the FTL particles reported at CERN that vanished pretty quickly due to measurement error.

EM waves create real fields that interact with the environment, thus radio and electricity generators work. Another person has speculated that "the asymmetric force derives from a reduced reflection coefficient at one end plate".
 

Sanpaku

Sanpaku
Some background (the last few being particularly relevant):

Puthoff, H. E. "Can the vacuum be engineered for spaceflight applications? Overview of theory and experiments." Jour. Sci. Exploration 12 (1998): 295.

Shawyer, Roger (2006). A Theory of Microwave Propulsion for Spacecraft

Juan, Y., Le, Y., Yu, Z., & Nan, M. (2010). Applying Method of Reference 2 to Effectively Calculating Performance of Microwave Radiation Thruster. Journal of Northwestern Polytechnical University, 6, 002.

Performance data from above

White, H., March, P., Williams, N., & ONeill, W. (2011). Eagleworks Laboratories: Advanced Propulsion Physics Research.

White, H. and March, P. (2012) "Advanced Propulsion Physics: Harnessing the Quantum Vacuum." Nuclear and Emerging Technologies for Space

White, Harold. "Eagleworks laboratories: Warp Field Physics". (See "Q-Drive" section pg 50)

I've frankly don't have a strong enough advanced maths background to follow it all, but if it works its a huge deal, at least for satellite station keeping and human exploration of the Solar System. I'd love to see the Chinese launch a small Q-drive maneuvering thruster aboard a solar-powered satellite to provide some confirmation.
 
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metatheurgist

metatheurgist
When I see these things I always hope they're true. From what we know about how the universe works there's an awful lot that we can't do. When there's a chance for new physics it opens the door to the impossible again.
 

Frank

Frank
I'm very doubtful about the results of these tests. You need reaction mass to propel yourself forwards.

It is quite impossible to break the laws of physics. :)
 

MikeSnos

MikeSnos
is the search function not working? Can't think of any reason why Tj might post a duplicate topic other than that....

Oh... it IS working.... :eek:
 
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