How do jump range limitations make the game better? Anaconda's unrealistic hull mass.

[CMDR Pugwash]

@CMDR Pugwash. For the same reason that you need it, convenience. Also why is it blasphemous to want to take a combat ship to beagle point or Sag A? I'm sure you don't have any problem taking your so-called multi-purpose ships to hazardous resource sites and conflict zones. Those areas should be barred to anyone not in combat ship right? You shouldn't need jump range either to get to the center of the galaxy, you can just get there in more jumps. So why does the Anaconda or other exploration ships need jump range? You can still get there regardless right?

It isn't blasphemous, it's baffling. There is nothing to fight.

Ah, no there you are wrong. Exploration ships do not need a long jump range. In fact, most jumps are sub 10 ly when you're exploring. The only time you do need longer jump capability is when you are at the edges and the stars become spread out.

Perhaps you are confusing exploration with fast travel. A lot of folks make this mistake.


EDIT :

Don't worry guys, I got this.

There's a group of fun hating players in this game. Frontier does everything this fun hating group wants. This group likes nothing more than depriving other people of fun. Including limiting FSD range of combat ships.

You think I'm talking rubbish? Wait till this thread reaches page 10

Half way there

 

[ManRightChea]

@Kurama. You find it odd that a person wants to fly a ship and not transport it?

I already know about the weight. That is exactly why the Anaconda makes no sense. It has higher base armor then the Corvette and less than half of the hull mass, which affords it a lot more cheats that it should not be able to get away with. How does it weigh so little, the same as a Clipper, or the new Chieftain which is a medium class ship? It is not much smaller than the Corvette or the Cutter. It has more firepower and damage per second as well. It also has better jump range so explain to me how it is balanced.

The problem is that one broken ship is the one determining the futures of all of the ships that come after it. It is the one big ship that will ruin any future big ship.

@CMDR Pugwash. It doesn't have anything to do with fast travel, it has to do with convenience. Some jumps are much further than that. You still have to get to the core, doesn't matter how close the stars are once you are there. The Anaconda is broken, that is why the exploration build is possible. However you didn't answer my question of why these ships are allowed to go to hazardous resource sites or combat zones when they are not combat ships. A person should be able to fly whatever ship they want, and have similar convenience. Shouldn't matter what class the ship belongs to. It's called having a favorite ship. We don't build the ships just to transport them around, we build them to fly them.

 

[kofeyh]

The Anaconda is just broken overpowered, plain and simple. If you compare every other ship in the game to each other while ignoring the Anaconda then ship balance actually looks pretty solid overall.

FSD ranges on FDL and Corvette need addressing to actually make them relevant; but the thing here, is Frontier developed a ship called Anaconda, and every single reason for every other ship added and the importance of those limitations and maintaining that rule - does not apply to Anaconda.

Anaconda sits as an aberration, and is the go-to ship as a consequence. It's untouchable though. So we will forever have a ship that, essentially, will be the evergreen achiever.

 

[WR3ND]

Seems like a no-brainer to me.

If combat ships had the same jump-range as other ships, everybody would travel everywhere in combat ships and all the other ships would be redundant.

I generally do anyway, and yes, some of the other exploration ships and the like do seem a little redundant to me, the exceptions being when you're trying to race off somewhere or reach the fringes of the galaxy when compared to other players and other ships.

If there were a bit more to exploration, this might not be the case, but as things are, going exploring in a combat loaded ship is definitely a viable and reasonably effective option for basic exploration.

 

[CMDR Pugwash]

@Kurama. You find it odd that a person wants to fly a ship and not transport it?

I already know about the weight. That is exactly why the Anaconda makes no sense. It has higher base armor then the Corvette and less than half of the hull mass, which affords it a lot more cheats that it should not be able to get away with. How does it weigh so little, the same as a Clipper, or the new Chieftain which is a medium class ship? It is not much smaller than the Corvette or the Cutter. It has more firepower and damage per second as well. It also has better jump range so explain to me how it is balanced.

The problem is that one broken ship is the one determining the futures of all of the ships that come after it. It is the one big ship that will ruin any future big ship.

@CMDR Pugwash. It doesn't have anything to do with fast travel, it has to do with convenience. The Anaconda is broken, that is why the exploration build is possible. However you didn't answer my question of why these ships are allowed to go to hazardous resource sites or combat zones when they are not combat ships. A person should be able to fly whatever ship they want, and have similar convenience. Shouldn't matter what class the ship belongs to. It's called having a favorite ship. We don't build the ships just to transport them around, we build them to fly them.

Ok, so you want them to nerf the Anaconda? And for Haz Rez site to be made more dangerous?

 

[kofeyh]

You don't *have* to strap every last bit of bling to it.

Actually you can have a really good long range Corvette build. It's called Anaconda. Same thing, different tin. Just really, really light tin. Like the lightest strongest tin you've ever seen. Super light. Mmm, that's something, right there.

 

[CMDR Pugwash]

Actually you can have a really good long range Corvette build. It's called Anaconda. Same thing, different tin. Just really, really light tin. Like the lightest strongest tin you've ever seen. Super light. Mmm, that's something, right there.

I've always meant to ask you... Was it you that trump was tweeting about that time? The covfefe thing.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

@Kurama. You find it odd that a person wants to fly a ship and not transport it?

I already know about the weight. That is exactly why the Anaconda makes no sense. It has higher base armor then the Corvette and less than half of the hull mass, which affords it a lot more cheats that it should not be able to get away with. How does it weigh so little, the same as a Clipper, or the new Chieftain which is a medium class ship? It is not much smaller than the Corvette or the Cutter. It has more firepower and damage per second as well. It also has better jump range so explain to me how it is balanced.

The problem is that one broken ship is the one determining the futures of all of the ships that come after it. It is the one big ship that will ruin any future big ship.

Don't ignore what I've said.

Now, the Anaconda is broken, even amongst exploration ships but that doesn't warrant an inmediate buff to all combat ships and it should remain higher than them as it is a multipurpose ship rather than a combat ship.

 

[ManRightChea]

Ok, so you want them to nerf the Anaconda? And for Haz Rez site to be made more dangerous?

People are making this example of it being weird for pilots to want to have a combat ship with a decent jump range that could even reach Beagle Point before their grandkids go to college. So I am asking, why is it okay for the Anaconda and Python to enter conflict zones and hazardous resource sites when they are not combat ships? Why do the Anaconda and Python have higher base armor then their combat oriented competitors? They have more firepower AND more jump range. The ExploraConda build for the Anaconda is only possible because the ship is broken and does not have the hull mass it should.

If they feel that if it is okay to suggest limitation of what some people find fun because their favorite ship happens to be combat oriented, it should only be fair that pilots that do not use combat ships should also have limitations. An Anaconda can be combat built just as well as a Corvette yet is given far more convenience for their pilot.

I am saying that the class should not matter and that every pilot should have access to convenient navigation. I want those that feel that combat should not have good navigation, to justify why multi-purpose ships should not be nerfed to bring them in line with their purpose.



@Kurama. Don't ignore what I've said. I already know the Anaconda is broken, you asked me why I wouldn't just taxi my ship. I asked you is it normal to build a ship not to fly it but only to transport it. Because if it is normal to fly the ship, there is no reason to ask me why I don't just transport it. The Anaconda being multi-purpose does not excuse it being broken, it is just allowed to be broken.

If it had a higher hull mass, the exploration build would not yield the results it does. It can't be used to justify balance because it is not balanced. I feel like one of the only people on this forum that actually knows how hull mass correlates to module sizing.

 

[kofeyh]

I've always meant to ask you... Was it you that trump was tweet about that time? The cofefe thing.

CMDR, please think about your responses; so I don't have to. Fly safe o7.

On the actual topic, the FDL and Corvette both have very small FSD drives, mass ratio wise. A nudge for either, given there's a greater reason to travel at this point, doesn't strike me as unreasonable. Anaconda will never be nerfed. It's been 3+ years, it's not getting a nerf. It'll sit as an example of how compromises only work when they're consistent applied, and that they presently, aren't.

I'd like to believe that, one day, Frontier will look at the entire range of ships, and look at a wholistic nudge so that everything mostly operates from the same play book. I don't particularly see the point now of nerfing Anaconda. It's already too late, really; but the rest of the fleet possibly need a review given that's going to be the standard everything is measured by.

--

There is a reason so very many commanders have Anaconda as their goal. I'm pretty sure this is actually intentional. It's an irresistible combination, that keeps people playing and working towards; Frontier is never going to compromise that pull.

 

[Numenor1379]

I 100% agree that the Anaconda is the problem, and that adding 300T to it's hull would solve at least the utterly silly range issue.

However, simply bumping the Corvette or FDL FSD size up by one will create new problems. Back during the beta it was determined that a 7A FSD on a Corvette would give it a 50+ly range. That is too much. Way too much.

What needs to happen is an across the board mass balance pass, with probably some tweaking on how mass affects jump range per FSD size.

 

[crushdepth]

I shouldn't have to taxi my Corvette. I should feel comfortable flying it anywhere. Why should other people have it easier getting around the bubble just because they don't fly a combat ship? Somebody needs to explain how the game will get worse by allowing this.

Why would a combat ship loaded with a ridiculous amount of weapons and armour have the same jump range as a ship that is not? You want a ship that is the best at everything? That's the definition of OP. Giving the corvette a top jump range - on top of all it's other benefits - would absolutely make the game worse. When I high wake away from a murder hobo I am quite happy to know that they can't follow me, because their jump range is suck.

 

[Captain Jack Sparrow]

Diamonds actually don't have any value. They are just rocks. They were sold as engagement items because otherwise the diamond market would have gone bust.

https://youtu.be/yplI48hSt2E

These other ships are allowed to perpetrate as to what they are not. Where are the limitations? Since you believe so strongly in roles, explain to me why it's okay for the Python and Anaconda to be capable in combat. You can't say it's okay in one sense for one class of ship but not for the other. If combat ships should not be explorers, these multi-purpose ships should not be combat equivalent/viable.

The Anaconda should honestly gain about 250 tons hull mass, perhaps lose a large hardpoint, and a size on its thruster and shield generator. Maybe then it would be balanced to its supposed role. FD allows it to be broken. Take a large hardpoint off of that Python too, and drop it's thruster down to a 5.

Way to miss the point.

And I'd never PvP in a Python or Annie. Not sure why you brought up the Python, it's jump isn't what I'd call good. One of the reasons I dropped mine.

 

[kofeyh]

What needs to happen is an across the board mass balance pass, with probably some tweaking on how mass affects jump range per FSD size.

Yes. I think, really, this is about the only way to contextually reset the balance so most everything sits on the same terms. I don't think frontier will do this though, sadly, they seem to like changing ships, on a pretty ad-hoc basis. Which, in a way, is only serving to broaden the divide.

 

[kofeyh]

Why would a combat ship loaded with a ridiculous amount of weapons and armour have the same jump range as a ship that is not? You want a ship that is the best at everything? That's the definition of OP. Giving the corvette a top jump range - on top of all it's other benefits - would absolutely make the game worse. When I high wake away from a murder hobo I am quite happy to know that they can't follow me, because their jump range is suck.

Have you seen the Anaconda? It, fully armed and loaded down, is about mid/ late twenties with engineered FSD. Corvette barely makes 30's with an exploration build. Don't let facts get in the way of a good argument, though. Look I don't think having a 50LY capable FDL is a good idea either, but I don't really think that's being asked for here.

I don't think anyone is asking for corvette to have the best jump range; nor should it. But the range for a handful of combat ships, is incongruous compared to other combat ships, let alone anything else. As above, a full review across the entire range of ships wouldn't be terrible. And really that has more to do with making sure each ship is responding to its purpose well. That's it.

 

[n13L5]

Real question. Does jump range equates to fun? If so then I don't get why that's not my case.

Jump range indirectly equates to fun, because it saves your play-time to do what you actually want to do, rather than staring at butt-ugly witch-space 17 times, wasting 45 minutes of your time - while the guy in a Conda, ASP or DBX got there in 10 minutes.

So while you were doing something stoopid, repetitive and annoying for 45 minutes, he's been having fun and profits at the destination for 35 minutes already.

Also, at the end of his casual 1 hour play session, he got a fair amount of bounties collected, credits and engineering materials to show for his time etc, while all you did was jumping, scooping, jumping, scooping!

Your wing or friends, waiting for you all that time will call you stoopid for flying "the wrong ship".


I hate the DBX cause its like a garbage truck, while I'd prefer to fly a Yacht - but the FDL is unusable, if your task includes travel.

So I can NEVER fly the ships I really want to fly in the game, because they have shtt jump range.

Do you think I *want* to fly that poorly designed trash pile they named Anaconda? Have you ever looked at the under-side of it? An intern in his first few hours using 3D Studio?!?
But I have no choice, because I can either go 60LY and be anywhere I need to be in the bubble in 4 jumps and get on with my intended business - or I can spend my time in gross-looking, unrealistic jump animations. No thanks, I'd rather play Assassin's Creed then... Riding long distances on beautifully animated horses in awesome landscapes beats the crap out of witch space.


Going from engineer to engineer in the Corvette takes so long, I frankly wouldn't bother to log into Elite at all.

Why I have 2 Corvettes - they get parked in a system with CZs and HazRez, but I travel with Anaconda, ASP or DBX. There are ONLY those three ships if you got many places to go.


Engineers force you exactly into this heavy moving around, far and wide, with vast quantities of materials to be collected in different locations all over the bubble and even outside of it.
So, suddenly, ships with crappy jump range are yet less fun than they used to be.


So your answer is: "more fun" because you had more time for your intended activity and less time for repetitive tedium of jumping in tiny steps.


Haven't you ever felt sorry for people with short legs who just can't keep up walking or running?

I have a suggestion for FD -
to measure popularity of ships, please don't simplistically count ownership numbers. Count the hours players actually spend in that ship's cockpit.
I bet you Anaconda, ASPx and DBx will win that contest hands down.

Cause I own every ship other than Lakon's T series. But the shtt-jump range ones are all sitting in the hangar most of the time.
If I need an FDL some place, I fly ahead in ANA, ASP or DBX and then pay to transfer the FDL - better to loose the money, log off and wait for the FDL to arrive than wasting hours of my life in witch space - hours you can never get back.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Have you seen the Anaconda? It, fully armed and loaded down, is about mid/ late twenties with engineered FSD. Corvette barely makes 30's in an exploration build. Don't let facts get in the way of a good argument, though.

The Anaconda is a multipurpose ship.

 

[Numenor1379]

Have you seen the Anaconda? It, fully armed and loaded down, is about mid/ late twenties with engineered FSD. Corvette barely makes 30's in an exploration build. Don't let facts get in the way of a good argument, though.

And that Corvette build sacrifices the point of having a big ship to do. Best I have managed for a FUN exploration Corvette (ie lots of SRVs and SLFs to blow up) is about 25ly with moderate offensive abilities and close to zero defenses.

If we could drop 200T to 300T of mass though it'd fix the range issue.

 

[Numenor1379]

The Anaconda is a multipurpose ship.

That is blatently OP by being too good at everything. Eploration it is king, combat it is in the top two or three ships (and better than the Corvette), trading it's better than all but 3 ships.

The Anaconda needs a massive nerf bat hit... but the playerbase would bring out the pitchforks were that to happen.

 

[n13L5]

So unless you're exploring the outer edges of the galaxy (where a combat ship is useless) what do you need the long jump range for?

Edit - I agree that some of the engineered ranges are excessive.

What's excessive about engineering is how far you have to travel to collect all that garbage and then ferry it to engineers that are spread all over the bubble.
I haven't heard of anyone who voluntarily uses a combat ship with crap jump range, just so they can waste twice as much of their time as they would otherwise waste on the countless, never ending engineering errands?