Before everyone gets too upset, remember we just had a major update. It will take a week or so before the BGS all catches up and missions pay like they should. This happens with every update that affects the mission boards. I'm not saying it's right, just give it a few days before we freak out...
Winged Delivery mission rewards is way less then normal Delivery missions
- Thread starter rain_walker
- Start date
Definitely needs a rethink. Maybe Instead of each wingman getting the stated reward, up the payment substantially to be more in line with single player missions then get an equal share of the payout. This would make a lot more sense whether it be a solo pilot or different numbers of wing mates.
I literally had two missions showing last night where the first was a Boom time delivery of 120 items for a (allied) payout of 2,400,000Cr and directly underneath another Boom time delivery for a wing, 900 items for 2,200,000. Both cargo deliveries were to the same station. Wish I’d done a screenie.
I literally had two missions showing last night where the first was a Boom time delivery of 120 items for a (allied) payout of 2,400,000Cr and directly underneath another Boom time delivery for a wing, 900 items for 2,200,000. Both cargo deliveries were to the same station. Wish I’d done a screenie.
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That's a fair point. However, I like the convenience of just picking up one big mission. I find the tedium of selecting enough missions to fill my hold to be one of the grinds int he game I prefer not to take part in. The payout may not be commensurate with the amount of commodities moved but the feeling of accomplishment makes it up for me.
Though, in all honesty, I probably won't continue to solo wing missions. I wanted to try it out and I do see it for its merits. However, if gaining more credits is my ultimate goal for a session then it is back to bulk trading, for me. I need to try out the new trade tools anyhow.
If any of my wingmates return to the game, then I suppose wing missions will make more sense for me.
Yeah, in the current format the wing mission rewards don't make sense.
An example from tonight.
Single player haulage mission taking 180 palladium to system x paid over 7m
Wing mission for 1900+ palladium to same system and station paid less than 7m
We took the wing mission because it was new and gave us something to do together, however as we were chatting and running the mission we decided that it wasn't worth it for the effort and time involved and in future we'd just take single player missions that pay much more for less effort. We can still wing up and chat but we both felt like idiots running back and forth for a fraction of the payout we'd get running missions separately, and the game play was identical.
If the aim was to get us to play together then the incentive / reward needs to be close to or equal the payout for single player missions otherwise it just pointless.
It would also be nice to have a wing filter so I can filter out the wing missions when I'm playing solo, or unless fixed always filter them out.
An example from tonight.
Single player haulage mission taking 180 palladium to system x paid over 7m
Wing mission for 1900+ palladium to same system and station paid less than 7m
We took the wing mission because it was new and gave us something to do together, however as we were chatting and running the mission we decided that it wasn't worth it for the effort and time involved and in future we'd just take single player missions that pay much more for less effort. We can still wing up and chat but we both felt like idiots running back and forth for a fraction of the payout we'd get running missions separately, and the game play was identical.
If the aim was to get us to play together then the incentive / reward needs to be close to or equal the payout for single player missions otherwise it just pointless.
It would also be nice to have a wing filter so I can filter out the wing missions when I'm playing solo, or unless fixed always filter them out.
Pretty sure this is just a result of Frontier erring on the low side, so if they need to make changes they can increase profits and everyone is happier. It's a much better outcome than releasing on the high side, and having to lower the rewards and make everyone upset.
I'd expect a small patch to increase the rewards, in the coming weeks.
I'd expect a small patch to increase the rewards, in the coming weeks.
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Why in the universe would everyone in the wing get the full reward? That doesn't make ANY sense why the faction would pay X amount to have 2000 tonnes delivered by 1 person, and pay 4 times X amount to have 2000 tonnes delivered by 4 people. Plus this really disincentivizes the solo player looking for winged missions (doing 3-4 trips) and getting the same amount than if I had winged up and done one trip.
The mission reward should be one price divided proprtionally by the amount delivered. Seriously this is whack and I hope they change it.
The mission reward should be one price divided proprtionally by the amount delivered. Seriously this is whack and I hope they change it.
Very good point.
Yes. I think we will have to wait Frontier 's rebalancing in 2 or 3 weeks...
What's the point of a beta if you don't take advice to release properly the final product. ( just like mat trading radio)
... Wait and counting days now
2 days no change.
To some degree you could try to rationalize that they want it to be delivered 4 times as quickly, but lets be honest, no one would pay 4 times the price for fast delivery.
And I agree with your conclusion, it should indeed be a very high reward divided by the number of participants, otherwise it makes no sense.
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Well one cool thing about them is with the new depots that mean you don’t have to take all the cargo at once it’s now possible to do big cargo missions in something other than a python. I like that.
You can stack them at stations to supplement a-b trading routes too, so you’re never flying empty.
I think it would be hilarious if FD were like: ‘say, they’re right. The rewards are disproportionate.’
... and then proceed to nerf the payouts for solo haulage missions into oblivion. I’d have my lunchtime reading for the rest of the month watching the python owners guild lose their minds
You can stack them at stations to supplement a-b trading routes too, so you’re never flying empty.
I think it would be hilarious if FD were like: ‘say, they’re right. The rewards are disproportionate.’
... and then proceed to nerf the payouts for solo haulage missions into oblivion. I’d have my lunchtime reading for the rest of the month watching the python owners guild lose their minds
lol knowing FD for that long, I actually think they would nerf the solo missions rather then make the winged one pay better.
Also I agree that its cool now the smaller ships can take cargo missions now. I mean i would honestly try to do a 2000t cargo mission with a cobra just coz i love flying that thing so much. flying 600m/s with full cargo of 36t is really fun i wont mind doing 60 trips for one missions.
Also I agree that its cool now the smaller ships can take cargo missions now. I mean i would honestly try to do a 2000t cargo mission with a cobra just coz i love flying that thing so much. flying 600m/s with full cargo of 36t is really fun i wont mind doing 60 trips for one missions.
Yep. That's the problem.
Possibly this is deliberate. Wing missions only pay fairly in a wing. Seems harsh to penalise smaller wings though.
I suspect that FD couldn't work out a satisfactory way of dividing up the spoils (or didn't want to write the code) currently turning in a wing mission is exactly the same as a regular mission under the hood.
I suspect it might be a while before we see a real change. It would make sense to have a 2 step turn in.
1) Mission holder turns in and chooses how much to give to each member. Equal share, proportion based on how much cargo etc. or some other amounts (beard length or something).
2) Members then get to turn in their share and choose the type of reward.
You could have some fairly juicy uplifts for completing missions quickly or scale the total reward based on wing size (professionalism bonus) to encourage people to play in wings.
IF you put a very high rewards and divide this number by the number of wing member ... you will just make them very good for solo player.
Because all members of a wing are not necessary hauler.
This is I think a good move from frontier to allow players to play in wing without much constrain.
This is a feature, not real live economic. When you have to choose between fun and rational, you will not make everyone happy.
And accessory, it makes the solo not so much lucrative compared to a wing of 4. The purpose is to play together and not making a new way to win MAX credits in 1 hour.
And more important. Keep it easy as much as possible.
Because all members of a wing are not necessary hauler.
This is I think a good move from frontier to allow players to play in wing without much constrain.
This is a feature, not real live economic. When you have to choose between fun and rational, you will not make everyone happy.
And accessory, it makes the solo not so much lucrative compared to a wing of 4. The purpose is to play together and not making a new way to win MAX credits in 1 hour.
And more important. Keep it easy as much as possible.
Doesn't change the fact that those wing missions take much more time to complete than regular ones. In the time span it takes you to complete one wing one you could easily do several solo missions. I don't see how reasonable rewards for wing missions would somehow make them super lucrative for solo players.
I provided feedback in the beta of this very nature - looks like it was ignored. No one in their right mind is going to haul 4000T of cargo for a measly 16m credits. Even in a wing of four there is little point when you can pick up single missions for 180T of cargo paying in the region of 6 - 11m credits.
The Wing Cargo missions seem to be aimed at Wings of 4 players flying large ships only, the Wing Assassination missions seem to be aimed at 4 players with engineered combat ships only. They need to go back to the drawing board and figure out how to balance these missions for Wings of 2 or more, be it increasing the payout for Wings smaller that 4 or reducing the amount of cargo to haul for smaller wings. Otherwise people are just being blocked from the content making Wing missions worthless.
The Wing Cargo missions seem to be aimed at Wings of 4 players flying large ships only, the Wing Assassination missions seem to be aimed at 4 players with engineered combat ships only. They need to go back to the drawing board and figure out how to balance these missions for Wings of 2 or more, be it increasing the payout for Wings smaller that 4 or reducing the amount of cargo to haul for smaller wings. Otherwise people are just being blocked from the content making Wing missions worthless.
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but it is a wing mission.
imagine if you had 4 players in a wing, and then all did it, you get it done 4 times faster. i am not saying they maybe should not be tweaked...... but you have to look at the prices of what you see quadrupled imo and then balance from that, because the whole point of the wing missions is to do in a wing.
now.... if it were me (but it is not) i would quadruple the pay out on the missionboard from the off... but then split the pay (not multiply it) for every person in the wing, (proportionally or by percentage done by each person would be for FD to decide). personally i think the magic pay amplification is a poor way to do it... much better to have, Shift X 1000 tons of goods and we pay Y amount. do it alone for full pay, or in a wing for a split dividend....... then, to encourage wing play (because that is the point of them) put "going for gold style" pay bonuses on the mission.
so do it in 20 mins get 25% bonus, 40 mins 20% bonus, 60 mins 10% bonus and over 60 mins up to the time out, then no bonus (for example) and try to balance that so it is not possible to get the bonus if you solo it.
it does seem to be VERY location dependant however.
there were plenty of wing missions at umbila some of them that i could do in 1 or 2 trips on my own (ie 700 - 1500 tons) and they paid pretty well..... these would have been perfect for a wing of 2 or 3 in T6s or T7s.
Again, i am not saying they do not need a tweak, just that imo they are not as off the mark as some are suggesting IF you look at them as for a wing of 4.
(and for those who complain because they play in a wing of 2... i feel you, me as a mostly lone wolf have been saying this from the off... we NEED npc wing mates then all wing missions can be done in a wing of 4 if we choose... or not.
until FD split off the wing missions to their own board, or allow the missionboard to generate a LOT more missions, FD are caught between a rock and a hard place.
generate 50 wing missions all with different balances for different numbers of folk, and it will mean hardly any solo missions the way it is now.
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Spent about 90 minutes last night with a friend hauling cargo in a wing mission to make 2.7 mill :-(
Won't be taking any more of those missions as I can easily make 5mill in 20 minutes hauling solo.
Even if you look at them with a Wing of 4 players, where everyone is using a Type-9/Cutter these missions STILL don't give you an incentive to actually do them.
The main reason is, that for such a wing going to a regular missionless trade run gives everyone more credits in a single run than one such mission.
And that's without the trade dividends everyone gets from the other wing members.
On top of that, balancing Wing missions for the maximum of 4 players is bad too, they should be balanced to 2.5 players, so that the missions are still good for 2 player wings, 3 players are wished to be had and if you DO get 4 players, just give them a bone and let them have that extra money.
Not to mention that you could actually hire a random player as escort for your mission, which was previously not possible, because trade dividends are puny.
Let us have fun in a wing of 2 Type-9s and 2 Escort ships while still making decent money. This is what I hoped the wing missions would allow us to do, without wasting the time of one player, since he normally would barely get any money whatsoever.
In return let that mission spawn plenty of pirates going for you, so you'd actually need the escorts to safely finish the mission.
The simple and easy to write code for solution is to simply divide the reward by number of players in the wing. That is balance.
If for one reason or another this is decided not an appropriate solution, then simply allow for large quantity trade missions for solo players. In other words, now that we have the Mission Depot, there is no reason why trading missions need to be limited to the cargo capacity of my ship!
Looking at this thread, it seems clear many cmdrs enjoy the fun of the large quantity wing missions (even alone), so why not simply allow these missions to be played without a wing - and then you can balance the payouts....
Btw, when I say solo players, I mean players not in a wing (but not necessarily in solo mode)
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