3.0 offers absolutely no protection against big player ships griefing small player ships

[TrailBlazer 143]

That absolutely neuters all player interaction in open. Piracy, player bounty hunting, countering BGS attack, faction warfare. The carebear types have such a fixation with "I should be able to just talk to people! The only proper player interaction is a crisp o7!". Go play in Mobius if you want that option.

You're not entirely right. You can do a lot coooperation in Open play with other players with "Wings" and "Wing Missions". You can mentor and teach players, help others look for materials on planets, help fend off NPC's during trade runs whilst tag teaming the trade markets, find minor factions to help together, Bounty hunt together. I can go on for a bit but I've already made my point.
Plus you're complaints sounds like you wouldn't like a Private and Solo mode, which is already in the game, so I don't see your point. Why are Flags a bad idea?...

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Even with the new C/P, you people find a way to complain.

All before 'people' in your statement is redundant.

Even the devs are indirectly telling you to git gud (I see you, Sandro) by offering basic advice-- the exact same the PvP crows had been offering for years.

The thing is, he went beyond posting 'git gud'. If you're offering advice you're a gem. If you just post 'git gud' you're a git and might as well not post at all.

 

[jasonbarron]

It would indeed be simple to implement, and would have headed off scores of complaints over the last three years.

I guess the Developers don't consider it consistent with a vision of the galaxy within which every man or woman in a spaceship is, at all times, under very real threat of losing their life. Where a hardy few take that colossal risk for colossal reward.

Check the missions boards. Many of the same guys who want PvP Immortality want to be the very embodiment of the God of Death so far as the helpless "Kill 100+ NPC's" are concerned.

As another forum-user once said, this is a power trip.

Put another way - if Frontier ever effectively preclude PvP threat for all, I hope that they include some really super-deadly NPC's who cause a lot of players to lose their ships.

Anything else is so one-sided as to really amount to playing something like Total War Warhammer, on Easy Mode, with Mods enabled that prevent the AI factions using anything that can possibly harm the player. That is currently where Solo is, with skilled PvE players having to self-handicap to achieve some kind of challenge.

I suppose what I'm saying is that every time a Cmdr undocks from a station, in Open, in Private, or in Solo, they should do so with a real sense of fear and imminent threat - in any ship, in any mode, with any mods. Mitigated somewhat by system security level, I would hope and accept - but never totally going away, except for the misguided.

I imagine that's what the NPC's do.

I feel like a stalker, one who follows you around looking for opportunities to give you rep.

 

[AzraelDirge]

You're not entirely right. You can do a lot coooperation in Open play with other players with "Wings" and "Wing Missions". You can mentor and teach players, help others look for materials on planets, help fend off NPC's during trade runs whilst tag teaming the trade markets, find minor factions to help together, Bounty hunt together. I can go on for a bit but I've already made my point.
Plus you're complaints sounds like you wouldn't like a Private and Solo mode, which is already in the game, so I don't see your point. Why are Flags a bad idea?...

Because you're an optimist that's throwing out best case scenarios. You know where I see an option that allows you to be in open with everything but PvP enabled going? People going into the base of an opposing player faction, running endless missions that trash their BGS, and taunting in local. People taking shieldless cutters to the CG, safe in the knowledge they don't even have to take the most perfunctory safety measures. A faction getting a CG, and running the whole thing with the PvP tag disabled, avoiding anyone who wishes to counter. People running UAs in open, with their magic, unshielded ship. People running powerplay materials to invade an enemy system, laughing at all attempts to intercept their shipments. Cooperation is great, but you're an idiot if you think that would be the primary use.

I think Solo and Private should exist, but I don't think any actions taken in those modes should have any effect on BGS at all.

 

[TrailBlazer 143]

It would indeed be simple to implement, and would have headed off scores of complaints over the last three years.

I guess the Developers don't consider it consistent with a vision of the galaxy within which every man or woman in a spaceship is, at all times, under very real threat of losing their life. Where a hardy few take that colossal risk for colossal reward.

Check the missions boards. Many of the same guys who want PvP Immortality want to be the very embodiment of the God of Death so far as the helpless "Kill 100+ NPC's" are concerned.

As another forum-user once said, this is a power trip.

Put another way - if Frontier ever effectively preclude PvP threat for all, I hope that they include some really super-deadly NPC's who cause a lot of players to lose their ships.

Anything else is so one-sided as to really amount to playing something like Total War Warhammer, on Easy Mode, with Mods enabled that prevent the AI factions using anything that can possibly harm the player. That is currently where Solo is, with skilled PvE players having to self-handicap to achieve some kind of challenge.

I suppose what I'm saying is that every time a Cmdr undocks from a station, in Open, in Private, or in Solo, they should do so with a real sense of fear and imminent threat - in any ship, in any mode, with any mods. Mitigated somewhat by system security level, I would hope and accept - but never totally going away, except for the misguided.

I imagine that's what the NPC's do.

Makes since for players to have that inner danger, I mean Frontier does use the term "Cutt Throat Galaxy". And I get it. But people play this game for different reasons and I have to speak on behalf of the people who are dying for no good reason as they try to learn a game with an extreamly steep learning curve, and also for those who don't seek a challenge but only a fun time. I'm not saying that FD should get rid of PVP for the sake of making the game easier or I would have said something along the lines of "Elite Rank NPC's might be too much for the new player".

Heck, I'm not even saying get rid of PVP at all, (which is what some people think I'm saying for some odd reason) I mean PVP "FLAGS" are for the enjoyment of the player being shifted into a galaxy of wonder and for those how don't like engaging with players that want to exploit smaller, weaker ships, if that makes any since.

 

[jasonbirder]

Put another way - if Frontier ever effectively preclude PvP threat for all, I hope that they include some really super-deadly NPC's who cause a lot of players to lose their ships.

Do you genuinely believe people avoid PvP because they're worried about losing their Ships??? If that was the case why do so many PVE players fly a Viper/Eagle/Courier etc to ensure that their is still a challenge...People avoid PVP because most of the time its simply ridiculous...which is a function of many of the people who practice it...they're not interested in the galaxy or the BGS - they simply want GTA in space...

 

[AzraelDirge]

Do you genuinely believe people avoid PvP because they're worried about losing their Ships??? If that was the case why do so many PVE players fly a Viper/Eagle/Courier etc to ensure that their is still a challenge...People avoid PVP because most of the time its simply ridiculous...which is a function of many of the people who practice it...they're not interested in the galaxy or the BGS - they simply want GTA in space...

Yes. I think not wanting to be killed is the biggest reason people dodge PvP, be it through Solo, PG, or logging.

 

[TrailBlazer 143]

Because you're an optimist that's throwing out best case scenarios. You know where I see an option that allows you to be in open with everything but PvP enabled going? People going into the base of an opposing player faction, running endless missions that trash their BGS, and taunting in local. People taking shieldless cutters to the CG, safe in the knowledge they don't even have to take the most perfunctory safety measures. A faction getting a CG, and running the whole thing with the PvP tag disabled, avoiding anyone who wishes to counter. People running UAs in open, with their magic, unshielded ship. People running powerplay materials to invade an enemy system, laughing at all attempts to intercept their shipments. Cooperation is great, but you're an idiot if you think that would be the primary use.

I think Solo and Private should exist, but I don't think any actions taken in those modes should have any effect on BGS at all.

I see your point, now. Solo and Private shouldn't have any effect on the BGS for the simple reason of the freedom of stepping over people and their hard work/being able to do this completely safe.

But Solo and Private DO effect the BGS so my question comes full circle, why are PVP "FLAGS" a bad idea?

 

[UmbraRex]

Yep, on that first part but every attack just passes through and yes they instance the same. You see a player, you target said player, it lets you know that their PVP flag is "OFF" under the "ship info panel" You either engage in conversation or move on with your life. You see another ship, PVP flag is "ON" and you engage as you wish.
Simple.

As I've said, Players shouldn't have to be forced somewhere else and miss out on the social experience of Eliteangerous. Open Play should be accessible to everyone because everyone plays this game for different reasons and every reason should be considered important (Excluding the hacker/cheaters/exploit reasons). Think of the friends and experiences and great conversation a person could have just on the first hour just starting out within a system full of players. All of that has been cut to some players either having NPC's in their games only or Being shot out of the sky for no reason.

Personally, IF they were to implement a PvP flag of some sort (which I don't believe will ever happen), I think those with it set to 'off' should NEVER instance with those who have it set to 'on'.

 

[AzraelDirge]

I see your point, now. Solo and Private shouldn't have any effect on the BGS for the simple reason of the freedom of stepping over people and their hard work/being able to do this completely safe.

But Solo and Private DO effect the BGS so my question comes full circle, why are PVP "FLAGS" a bad idea?

Multiple reasons.

First, because it takes a dangerous, unpredictable galaxy and makes it nice and safe and cozy, with no sacrifice on the part of the player.
Right now, you either choose carefully curated interaction in a training wheels group like Mobius, no player interaction in Solo, or full player interaction, with all the assumed risks. Your idea wants to let people have their cake and eat it too.

Second, because it's just another tool for people that already abuse solo and PG, only again, they can have their cake and eat it. They can carry out their sabotage free of risk, and also be in open, flaunting their actions in the face of powerless opponents.

Third, it allows people to be lazy, sloppy and greedy with no risk. They can take a cutter, fill it top to bottom with cargo, go merrily along exchanging o7s in open with CMDRs, and laugh at the people that would normally punish them for their lack of preparedness.

 

[TrailBlazer 143]

Personally, IF they were to implement a PvP flag of some sort (which I don't believe will ever happen), I think those with it set to 'off' should NEVER instance with those who have it set to 'on'.

That could work too but the amount of extra work the devs have to do and the disconnection that would take place when switching, is going to be a nightmare in my opinion rather than just let the Targeting Pilot know that the ship they're looking at isn't engagable.

 

[jasonbirder]

Yes. I think not wanting to be killed is the biggest reason people dodge PvP, be it through Solo, PG, or logging.

Of course, the desire for challenging equal Combat and a lassez-faire attitude to Ship Loss amongst PVP Players is why I've been attacked countless times in Open when I'm in my Asp and Type 7, a few times when I'm in my Viper 3 and NEVER when I'm in my Engineered FDL...

 

[AzraelDirge]

Of course, the desire for challenging equal Combat and a lassez-faire attitude to Ship Loss amongst PVP Players is why I've been attacked countless times in Open when I'm in my Asp and Type 7, a few times when I'm in my Viper 3 and NEVER when I'm in my Engineered FDL...

You literally didn't address what I said at all, you just said "Lol, they only attack my easy ships"

 

[Cmdr Ultra]

Personally, IF they were to implement a PvP flag of some sort (which I don't believe will ever happen), I think those with it set to 'off' should NEVER instance with those who have it set to 'on'.

So what's the point of that? We have Open, we have Mobius. Same result as that moronic idea.

Do you struggle that much with the concept of an Open mode. Open for everyone regardless of ability to interact.

 

[jasonbirder]

You literally didn't address what I said at all, you just said "Lol, they only attack my easy ships"

That quite Literally addresses your point that PVE players want a safe environment and that PVP players want to challenge themselves in a dangerous environment with the odds slanted against them...
Unless you're agreeing with me that a portion of the PVP player-base has little interest in anything beyond "seal-clubbing" for "out of the game" reasons...

 

[Eldragon]

We have constant complaints about combat logging, PVP Balance, the massive popularity of Private groups like Mobius. Theses are problems other "Cut throat" PVP games don't have. Obviously something is wrong.

PVP is this game at its worst. Cooperation is when this game is at its best. Yet the common "solution" to complaints about PVP is to be told "Go play in solo". Which solves the worst part of the game, but cuts out the best.

I would much rather FDev focused on solutions that brought people into open and start meeting and cooperating with random strangers.

 

[Jukelo]

Personally, IF they were to implement a PvP flag of some sort (which I don't believe will ever happen), I think those with it set to 'off' should NEVER instance with those who have it set to 'on'.

That could work too but the amount of extra work the devs have to do and the disconnection that would take place when switching, is going to be a nightmare in my opinion rather than just let the Targeting Pilot know that the ship they're looking at isn't engagable.

It wouldn't require any extra work since what UmbraRex described is how the game modes already work. The difference between clicking Open and clicking PG is whom the matchmaking servers instance you with.

 

[AzraelDirge]

So what's the point of that? We have Open, we have Mobius. Same result as that moronic idea.

Do you struggle that much with the concept of an Open galaxy where you see everyone.

Then they can go fly in Mobius instead of people in open having a bunch of ships that are magically immune to weapons cruising around.

That quite Literally addresses your point that PVE players want a safe environment and that PVP players want to challenge themselves in a dangerous environment with the odds slanted against them...
Unless you're agreeing with me that a portion of the PVP player-base has little interest in anything beyond "seal-clubbing" for "out of the game" reasons...

I never said all PvP players want tough fights all the time. I did say people that actively avoid PvP are actively avoiding being killed. You're reading things into what I said that aren't there.

 

[TrailBlazer 143]

Multiple reasons.

First, because it takes a dangerous, unpredictable galaxy and makes it nice and safe and cozy, with no sacrifice on the part of the player.
Right now, you either choose carefully curated interaction in a training wheels group like Mobius, no player interaction in Solo, or full player interaction, with all the assumed risks. Your idea wants to let people have their cake and eat it too.

Second, because it's just another tool for people that already abuse solo and PG, only again, they can have their cake and eat it. They can carry out their sabotage free of risk, and also be in open, flaunting their actions in the face of powerless opponents.

Third, it allows people to be lazy, sloppy and greedy with no risk. They can take a cutter, fill it top to bottom with cargo, go merrily along exchanging o7s in open with CMDRs, and laugh at the people that would normally punish them for their lack of preparedness.

Most of the problems I think you have is just with Private and Solo and not my idea. I'm not seeing any reasons to disregard PVP "FLAGS" other than the sense of people being able to rub it in your face.

But I'm not trying to counter the PVPer's with this, I'm trying to counter the people that exploit weaker ships just for a laugh. No matter what Crime and Punishment FD comes up with, there will always be players, who don't care about a bounty, a "hot" ship or a rebuy cost , that are going to run off players from the game by erasing their hard work of playing the game as well. And I don't think that's fair. Your side of the arguement has already been deemed as "fair play" by frontier, but the reason why they're reworking C&P because they know "Ganking" isn't fair

 

[AzraelDirge]

We have constant complaints about combat logging, PVP Balance, the massive popularity of Private groups like Mobius. Theses are problems other "Cut throat" PVP games don't have. Obviously something is wrong.

PVP is this game at its worst. Cooperation is when this game is at its best. Yet the common "solution" to complaints about PVP is to be told "Go play in solo". Which solves the worst part of the game, but cuts out the best.

I would much rather FDev focused on solutions that brought people into open and start meeting and cooperating with random strangers.

Why do people have such a fixation with making the galaxy a safe, happy, kumbaya singing group of hippies that do nothing but 07, take screenshots with each other, and offer help out of the goodness of their heart? The galaxy is largely lawless, always dangerous and often cruel.