3.0 offers absolutely no protection against big player ships griefing small player ships
- Thread starter Sentience
- Start date
Deleted member 115407
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All you have to do is type "PvP Piracy Elite Dangerous" in the search box on youtube.
Just because some pirates are more heavy-handed than others doesn't mean that PvP piracy is non-existent.
Yes. Similarly there are those of us who don't pirate, but attack only the Wanted or Powerplay Hostiles.
A minority behaviour perhaps but one that still exists.
Don't you resent Griefers EVEN more than ordinary run of the mill PVE players?
After all...once we've encountered enough players that EG
We migrate to Private Groups and hook up with Friends...enjoying the game as we did before...with the advantage of getting us all in the same instance with no problems and less lag and hang in busy areas
PVP'ers wanting to genuinely engage with the game though are left with less and less players to interact with...
No. Unless I've been hallucinating the last 3 years of playing this game...
Maybe don't play in open if you want to avoid people like that.
I do sometimes wonder if the difference between Open, Private Group and Solo aren't flagged up obviously enough to NEW players...
I log on...top of the list "Open" right, I'll click that...its top of the list sounds like the "Generic" or "Default" mode after all Private is below it and sounds "Private" and Solo is BELOW even that and sounds like I might not get the Full game experience...
If new players realised that Solo offered EVERYTHING there is in Open AND a LESS Laggy Interface AND merely cut out PVP i'm pretty sure that more people would chose it...
Is there a case for asking Frontier to change the names from Open/Solo to something more intuitive and obvious (EG: Single Player/Multi-Player) and makybe creating a STICKY at the top of the Newcomers forum explaining the differences in very simple terms...
You are completely wrong about PvP flags not being present in other MMO games. And they do not allow you to change your status at any time without restriction.
Ever heard of World of Warcraft? Yeah...that game that's been ongoing for 13 years now? PvP flags.
Never said it was non-existent, I said it was dead. Again, you're relying on the kindness of others NOT to Combat Log or be in another instance when they know they have everything to lose. Which brings my question full circle: What's so bad about "FLAGS" (with everything we've come to thus far, the Combat logging and the different modes that negate piracy, the gankers and rich people that won't stop killing and trolling and the fact that the social aspec of Elite: Dangerous is important for gameplay)
Yes, I think that's the idea.
Have any of you "PvP Flag" advocates put this forward in the Suggestions forum yet?
That's actually very good suggestion, FD might want to spell out pros and cos of each mode more clearer. Would help newcomers a great deal (try things in Solo, then jump into Open when ready to react to unexpected).
No, I don't 'resent' those fellow customers who attack at random.
I do think that the Developer ought not to have waited until Season 3.0 to have introduced a clearer consequence distinction between, say, killing a clean unpledged player and a Wanted or (if both pledged) Powerplayer.
I also think that the Developer ought now to act to prevent opportunistic insta-pledging/unpledging, for 3.0 C&P purposes. (One example.)
But these are issues between me as customer / forum feedback provider and the Developer. They relate to in-game law enforcement mechanics.
I do not share your concern over the actions of fellow customers, provided they keep those actions in-game.
To me, there's an obvious solution (may have been suggested before, but I haven't checked) : Instead of fines being fixed amounts, make them percentages of your total net worth (not liquid assets, as then you could just stockpile ships.)
Imagine you're a billionaire with a fleet's worth of ships and then you're slapped with a fine for 10% of your total net worth. (Figures are for illustration, not a suggestion.) In a game where making money isn't hard, percentages are the easiest way to hurt billionaires.
I didnt notice that at all, OPEN is very populated, at least from my prospective.
Well, obviously when your philosophy of Player-Interaction is
As previously stated...
You've got a larger base of people who you count as "Enemies" (IE Everyone) Genuine Elite Players who might be say targeting opposed Powerplay Factions, Bounty Hunting "Wanted" Players or targeting Players with high-value Cargoes for Piracy OBVIOUSLY have a more specific (and therefore smaller) number of people to interact with...
As mentioned up thread...I wonder if many Newer Players don't understand properly the difference between Open and Solo and have suggested a change to the naming Conventions (To Single-Player/Multi-Player) to help newcomers out...would be nice if Frontier took us up on it!
Why should we resent griefers for giving us pirates a bad name? Terrorists/murder hobos are supposed to be a part of the game and if meeting one in Open makes you switch to solo or Mobius, that simply means you shouldn't have been in Open in the first place. When I join Open I'm not interested in playing with people who don't agree to the basic premise of Open, ie most anything goes (as long as it's not cheating, insults and harassment).
Back in 2015 I was often called a griefer for robbing players (that was before SDC existed and murder hobos were not really a thing), I have no doubt maybe a few of my victims left Open because they weren't ready to hand over their hard-earned cargo. Should I resent myself for demonstrating to those players they didn't really want to experience the full Open experience and would be more at ease in a game mode that suited their tastes better?
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Presumably because Piracy is a LOGICAL part of the Elite universe (and whilst PVP Piracy returns are low payouts compared to some) and a valid Career choice...
A player that's Pirated can see that, understand that won't resent that...it'll be a positive interaction for Both...or if not positive at least understandable..."I've got some valuable cargo...that guy robbed it"
A million miles away from a Random player Kill for no in-game reason...Can you REALLY imagine a Sci-Fi Universe in which large numbers of Pilots, spend some of their time running Passenger Missions...to fund a habit of hanging around Stations to blow up new Pilots? Of course not...its not a valid in-game career...its driven by something "out of the game" that causes individuals to get their pleasure from essentially "breaking" the Elite
angerous Universe...Why would you consider your Valid actions (Piracy) in ANY WAY comparable to that...
AND YOU as a Pirate SUFFER because of it...LESS people playing in Open because of the GTA/WoW crowd...means LESS Piracy for You...not because people resent Piracy (most don't) but because they resent being blown up for no reason by a bunch of idiots...
Being randomly blown up by a psychopath is an entirely valid way of dying in ED. There are NPCs like that too, taking pleasure from the misery of others (and in game terms, these NPCs exist to force you to fight/flee or face a rebuy). Why should you expect player characters to be any different and only make logical decisions?
And why should I resent players doing their own thing and chasing away players who obviously didn't agree to the premise of the game mode I have chosen to play in? It makes absolutely no sense to blame them here. If I thought murder-hobos had no place in Open, I would blame Frontier for letting them do their thing, not the players themselves. The players are just like you and me, they are having fun in whatever way they can which is allowed by the game. You may not find waht they do fun, but there are also players who do enjoy the fact there are psychos which could just kill them for no reason at all. I'm one of them. Whenever I see a hollow contact on the radar, I love the fact I can't know for certain what's going to happen. Most of the time nothing, but the two times I was blown up without questions asked have left their mark and now I always get a little rush of adrenaline.
Sure it does mean ultimately I find less clients, but I wouldn't want to play in an overly sanitized environment anyway, so I just accept the fact somebody's playstyle will impact mine to a degree. And frankly I don't believe griefers are the main problem for pirates. Back when the game was a lot safer and the definition of griefing was piracy (oh yes...), combat logging was already a big problem.
Also I see you've mentioned various simulation, Stellaris and EVE/WOW and somehow tried to compare their communities. I never played WoW so I can't comment on that, but I have played most space sims out there, I also used to be part of a virtual squadron playing AF and BMS, and I played EVE.
And in your comparison, here is what you missed: of all the communities you have brought up, only WoW and EVE are MMOs. All the others communities were organized around small (therefore friendly) forums of users sharing their (mostly single player) experience and love of the games and organizing small session-based matches between friends where applicable. If there was competition, it was friendly competition. Stellaris is pretty much the same. Although you will find a lot of bitterness within its community between fans of 4x, fans of RTS games, and fans of the grand-strategy genre that crossed over from PDS' other titles, MP games of Stellaris are still played between friends mostly.
EVE, WOW, and ED to an extent, are MMOs. Their communities are a lot bigger. Nobody can afford to be friends with everybody else, and there is naturally going to be a lot more toxicity as happens every time a lot of people are huddled together (ever compared country life and city life?). But even then, their communities are split into smaller groups within which you will find the same friendly spirit you have experienced back in the days of the old sim communities. But across those communities, not so much: there is a lot of shared disdain between Open and PG communities, a lot of shared disdain between reddit and the forumdads, and you yourself have made it pretty clear what you feel about players attacking others with no justification, in a game which doesn't prompt one for a reason before shooting another player.
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This is the sticking point in the argument against "griefers". It's quite simple - some of us can accept this fact, while some of us can't. If we can accept that any attack is valid in the E: D universe, then there is actually very little "griefing" that goes on. I can honestly say that I've never been "griefed" at all. Though I have been destroyed many times by other commanders. Mostly without any reason at all.