PvP Why PvP is not popular in Elite Dangerous?

[Truesilver]

I can tell anyone still reading this thread that you can kill 1,000+ new players in Sidewinders in Eravate for lulz and provided you do it in Open with no insults, Frontier will do nothing to your account apart from - if you ask them - sending you a verified player kill-count by email.

Does anyone doubt the above? Please tell me...

 

[frostypaw]

I can tell anyone still reading this thread that you can kill 1,000+ new players in Sidewinders in Eravate for lulz and provided you do it in Open with no insults, Frontier will do nothing to your account apart from - if you ask them - sending you a verified player kill-count by email.

Does anyone doubt the above? Please tell me...

I don't think so, but we might think that's a bit lame. OK not a bit - extremely lame. Really? Requesting verified player kill-count? Good lord.

 

[Ian Skippy]

You misunderstood my football example.

People at Football match - all people who want to play this game with rules it have. In elite it is PvP and PvE. All this people agree with both sides of this game. As one whole. There is no separetions by gaming rules, PvP is not cheating or hacking. It is same as mining, exploring, bounty hunting and missioning.
And then there are people, who dont agree with some rules of this game, people who ignore pvp for example, but for some reason they dont leave stadion(open mode). Thats griefing to me.

I dont do mining much, and I ignore PvP for the same reason. People can do what they want, and you'll have to deal with it.

 

[Truesilver]

I don't think so, but we might think that's a bit lame. OK not a bit - extremely lame. Really? Requesting verified player kill-count? Good lord.

For a time the PK count became a reddit flair meme.

The irony is that I actually play the game pretty much as you and @rlsg would wish but I won't shrink from wanting the discussion to be factually accurate.

 

[frostypaw]

For a time the PK count became a reddit flair meme.

The irony is that I actually play the game pretty much as you and @rlsg would wish but I won't shrink from wanting the discussion to be factually accurate.

I think most people agree on what's needed, but for some the determination to make it them vs us is too strong to openly admit it.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

The fact that fdev made Eravate a PvP zone should tell enough about their means for this game. Just because it doesnt suit someones expectations it doesnt mean it is broken/unethical/anti social and so forth.
The fact that you have no safe zones except on the landing pad should be obvious enough that PvP is encouraged by the devs.

 

[Stigbob]

I can tell anyone still reading this thread that you can kill 1,000+ new players in Sidewinders in Eravate for lulz and provided you do it in Open with no insults, Frontier will do nothing to your account apart from - if you ask them - sending you a verified player kill-count by email.

Does anyone doubt the above? Please tell me...

Doing that's fine (lame and unpopular but fine) and allowable within the rules, but it should never be combined with complaining nobody will play with you anymore.

 

[lenna]

I suggest you actually read the code of conduct for ED.

What you're probably referring to is the section of the EULA which deals with communication between players.

It is often misunderstood, and sometimes intentionally misrepresented as applying to something other than in-game comms.

If you are referring to clause 7.3.1 then I suggest you read it again...

7.3 Communication and interaction with other users
7.3.1 The Game and/or Online Features may allow communications between users by means including but not limited to text and voice. When using such features you must use common sense and good manners, your behaviour, conduct and communications must be considerate to other users and you must not be directly or indirectly offensive, threatening, harassing or bullying to others or violate any applicable laws including but not limited to anti-discrimination legislation based on race, ethnicity, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

The implications of this are quite clear: (a) text/voice are not the only things subject to review upon complaint, (b) behaviour and conduct are considered separate from "communications", and (c) direct or indirect harassment or bullying of any form (inc. true griefing) is expressly prohibited.

To claim this clause only refers to "communication" is false and to claim PvP interactions are not covered by the clause is misleading.

Now whether FD will act on such complaints is another matter and I am sure it would be handled quietly and with discretion so as to not prejudice anyone in the case of false accusations.

 

[Cosmos]

Its kinda depressing that after all these years this row continues on..

If anyone is in any doubt the following video should really put things to rest.. Bo's reaction says it all and seems rather honest even if she probably didn't mean to reflect whats really going on.

The reason for the situation re PvP is little to do with popularity and ultimately down to Frontier and Braben, who has basically done everything they can to limit its role, bar removing the option entirely.

The whole setup, the forum 'moderation', the game, everything is setup against any form of meaningful PvP.

[video=youtube_share;pbwy-XP_FbM]https://youtu.be/pbwy-XP_FbM[/video]

They'll happily take yer money but I wouldn't expect anything to change.

Or is that too 'passive aggressive'? Seemed like a fairly reasonable question to me.

 

[Ethaidan]

Of course you would be the first to chime in with your misinformation.

You are twisting the statement into something it is not.

7.3.1 does not imply anything.

It is very explicitly states that it refers to communication between players.

When you see a statement like "including but not limited to text and voice", you need to consider the context (and maybe read the rest of the sentence).

What this means is that you cannot get around the rule by utilizing some other type of communication than text or voice comms.

People can be very creative when trying to circumvent rules like these. The language used leaves little room for argument.

You can't harass, or bully, or be generally offensive to people via in-game comms.

That's all it says.

I'm really not interested in the real intent behind the underlying debate you two are having, but here, you are clearly wrong.

7.3 Communication and interaction with other users

7.3.1 The Game and/or Online Features may allow communications between users by means including but not limited to text and voice. When using such features you must use common sense and good manners, your behaviour, conduct and communications must be considerate to other users and you must not be directly or indirectly offensive, threatening, harassing or bullying to others or violate any applicable laws including but not limited to anti-discrimination legislation based on race, ethnicity, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

So, you're right, it doesn't 'imply' anything, it states it very clearly, but your wrong as it explicitly states 'behaviour, conduct and communication'. If it was meant to expressly and only cover communication, they would not have included behaviou and conduct - you don't just get to ignore or whitewash those words because they don' t fit your narrative.

PS what are you even arguing about?

 

[Cosmos]

It goes without saying that until I was involved with ED I had never heard the term 'griefing' used in the context of an online game and I'd played many up to that point. Blimey, I think if I never hear the term used again it will be too soon.

I can't be sure but I strongly suspect all this stems from Braben getting rext whilst playing EvE online and thus the game attracts the many others who have severe psychological issues from said game. Its the only real rational conclusion to explain the hysteria and resulting smugness that goes with the professionally offended crowd.

At the end of the day, ED has a majority playerbase thats of this type and so the game and its design and rules caters to them.

If all that remains is repeated 'community goals' and being spoon fed a bed time story, whilst the developer cozies up to those who play in a way they deem acceptable then any further complaints or objections about PvP really are a complete waste of time.

If you want to PvP Frontier quite clearly would rather you not be here. So continuing to play the game if thats ones desired playstyle, of playing it your way and blazing your own trail, well you are only hurting and frustrating yourself.

You will only be bullied badgered and demonised by Frontier and those they elevate to act on their behalf. This by the way is true passive aggressiveness.

What bothers me most about all of this debacle is the duplicity from Frontier. The dishonesty..

 

[Mohrgan]

It goes without saying that until I was involved with ED I had never heard the term 'griefing' used in the context of an online game and I'd played many up to that point. Blimey, I think if I never hear the term used again it will be too soon.

I can't be sure but I strongly suspect all this stems from Braben getting rext whilst playing EvE online and thus the game attracts the many others who have severe psychological issues from said game. Its the only real rational conclusion to explain the hysteria and resulting smugness that goes with the professionally offended crowd.

At the end of the day, ED has a majority playerbase thats of this type and so the game and its design and rules caters to them.

If all that remains is repeated 'community goals' and being spoon fed a bed time story, whilst the developer cozies up to those who play in a way they deem acceptable then any further complaints or objections about PvP really are a complete waste of time.

If you want to PvP Frontier quite clearly would rather you not be here. So continuing to play the game if thats ones desired playstyle, of playing it your way and blazing your own trail, well you are only hurting and frustrating yourself.

You will only be bullied badgered and demonised by Frontier and those they elevate to act on their behalf. This by the way is true passive aggressiveness.

What bothers me most about all of this debacle is the duplicity from Frontier. The dishonesty..

I wish that those who point out when a poster on the PvE side of this discussion insults the PvP side, they take note, and mention, when the PvP side maligns their counterparts. Dipping into some armchair psychology to bash those with opposing views should be equally dismissed, regardless of the direction in which the insults fly.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

It goes without saying that until I was involved with ED I had never heard the term 'griefing' used in the context of an online game and I'd played many up to that point. Blimey, I think if I never hear the term used again it will be too soon.

I can't be sure but I strongly suspect all this stems from Braben getting rext whilst playing EvE online and thus the game attracts the many others who have severe psychological issues from said game. Its the only real rational conclusion to explain the hysteria and resulting smugness that goes with the professionally offended crowd.

At the end of the day, ED has a majority playerbase thats of this type and so the game and its design and rules caters to them.

If all that remains is repeated 'community goals' and being spoon fed a bed time story, whilst the developer cozies up to those who play in a way they deem acceptable then any further complaints or objections about PvP really are a complete waste of time.

If you want to PvP Frontier quite clearly would rather you not be here. So continuing to play the game if thats ones desired playstyle, of playing it your way and blazing your own trail, well you are only hurting and frustrating yourself.

You will only be bullied badgered and demonised by Frontier and those they elevate to act on their behalf. This by the way is true passive aggressiveness.

What bothers me most about all of this debacle is the duplicity from Frontier. The dishonesty..

Nope, the game caters to pvp in any form except content. But to be honest there is not that much content for PVE as well.

The game has constant iterations of balancing weapons and shields because of PVP.

The game does not allow OP weapons such as huge rails or frags because of PVP.

The changes that were made to healing beams and heat cannons were made because of PvP.

C & P was redone because of PVP.

Arguably the engineers were made less grindy to attract more people foe PvP.

Power Play was supposed to be a PvP content but the cries of the community to keep it within all modes killed it before it even made to production.

The game's variety of weapons and flight module screaming for PvP content, the mechanics are there and probably the most complete feature in the game, all is missing is meaningfull content and it can only happen when the modes will favour OPEN when it comes to true multiplayer content with mandatory direct confrontation.

 

[Riverside]

Nope, the game caters to pvp in any form except content. But to be honest there is not that much content for PVE as well.

The game has constant iterations of balancing weapons and shields because of PVP.

The game does not allow OP weapons such as huge rails or frags because of PVP.

The changes that were made to healing beams and heat cannons were made because of PvP.

C & P was redone because of PVP.

Arguably the engineers were made less grindy to attract more people foe PvP.

Power Play was supposed to be a PvP content but the cries of the community to keep it within all modes killed it before it even made to production.

The game's variety of weapons and flight module screaming for PvP content, the mechanics are there and probably the most complete feature in the game, all is missing is meaningfull content and it can only happen when the modes will favour OPEN when it comes to true multiplayer content with mandatory direct confrontation.

I don't know enough about the history of Power Play to dispute your point. The rest of it is all fair comment well described.

A agree about the link between an open only ruleset and 'meaningful' content, although I imagine we fall on different sides of the argument for or against 'open only' rules being added.

 

[frostypaw]

The whole setup, the forum 'moderation', the game, everything is setup against any form of meaningful PvP.

Do you realise how petty this looks?

Yes it's too passive aggressive. it's just the same old whinging - "game is not playable purely via pvp, i am not happy, why you no make game for me" - it's been years of it now. Ain't happening - I'd laugh too.

PvP is possible but it's never going to be the core of the game. Seeing channels like that just full of all that.... it's pathetic.

 

[Stigbob]

Its kinda depressing that after all these years this row continues on..

If anyone is in any doubt the following video should really put things to rest.. Bo's reaction says it all and seems rather honest even if she probably didn't mean to reflect whats really going on.

The reason for the situation re PvP is little to do with popularity and ultimately down to Frontier and Braben, who has basically done everything they can to limit its role, bar removing the option entirely.

The whole setup, the forum 'moderation', the game, everything is setup against any form of meaningful PvP.

https://youtu.be/pbwy-XP_FbM

They'll happily take yer money but I wouldn't expect anything to change.

Or is that too 'passive aggressive'? Seemed like a fairly reasonable question to me.

It's not passive aggressive at all, it's just another bonkers conspiracy theory about FDEV conspiring against PVP.

The simple truth is the majority of the playerbase just don't like PVP. So therefore they don't bother with it, it follows logically that FDEV know this and treating PVP as a less than urgent issue like mining is only sensible.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

as a less than urgent issue like mining is only sensible.

Mining is getting some love this year <3

 

[lenna]

And just before it mentions "behaviour", it says "When using such features".

So PvP is not a feature allowing "interaction" between players then? Great logic, you have there.

I think the player you shoot at would disagree - unless there is no noticeable effect on their ship.

As for "brits" not spelling words correctly, I think you need to consider the point that the "English" language originates from "England" which is part of "Britain".

 

[lenna]

It goes without saying that until I was involved with ED I had never heard the term 'griefing' used in the context of an online game and I'd played many up to that point.

The term normally only applies to a certain subset of games - In much older (pre-2000) PvP games (e.g. Quake, Doom, Hexen and Unreal Tournament) where Death Match type PvP is the primary reason for the multi-player mode, griefing did not exist as a term for less desirable PvP behaviours but "spawn camping" was frowned up (which is a largely comparable behaviour to Griefing). The term Griefing is typically reserved for mixed mode games where PvP is enabled in an Open environment but not the sole focus of gameplay, such games constitute a relatively small number of on-line games.

As for claiming FD is against PvP, they are obviously against completely unconstrained PvP comparable to Death Match PvP in the ED Main Environment. Anyone that wants that kind of gameplay have CQC mode which FD created to cater for them. Overall, no - FD are not against PvP but they are obviously against certain classes of PvP behaviour in the main environment.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

The term normally only applies to a certain subset of games - In much older (pre-2000) PvP games (e.g. Quake, Doom, Hexen and Unreal Tournament) where Death Match type PvP is the primary reason for the multi-player mode, griefing did not exist as a term for less desirable PvP behaviours but "spawn camping" was frowned up (which is a largely comparable behaviour to Griefing). The term Griefing is typically reserved for mixed mode games where PvP is enabled in an Open environment but not the sole focus of gameplay, such games constitute a relatively small number of on-line games.

As for claiming FD is against PvP, they are obviously against completely unconstrained PvP comparable to Death Match PvP in the ED Main Environment. Anyone that wants that kind of gameplay have CQC mode which FD created to cater for them. Overall, no - FD are not against PvP but they are obviously against certain classes of PvP behaviour in the main environment.

No they are not. They want ganking otherwise explain why Eravate is a pvp zone and safe spaces exist only on the landing pads.