General / Off-Topic Regarding "griefers" emotional reasoning behind attacks

[Xenith]

It's my overall experience, that PvP servers in any MMO are not a place you go if you're looking for the best in humanity. Not at all. In fact, I can't remember the last time I played on a PvP server, and actually saw someone NOT being a to another person. Even the conversations read like something a school kid would come out with!

PvE and PvP can't coexist, because the two groups are so different in mentality, that they will never like each other, or agree on anything. That's just the way it is.

 

[zakaryx]

Those who want to kill?

Ganking ships outside stations when they can't defend themselves - perhaps thats griefing.

Yet as far as I'm concerned any other form of blowing up shiny pixels is legitimate. If I was to blow up your ship and take your cargo which you had put a lot of money into, in what you may define as a 'legit' way, would you put me on the ignore list?

Stations are the only place that pirates can currently... pirate. There's no PC miners and no PC interdiction.

Until those are in anyone who wants to roll play as a space pirate has to do pirating at the stations that the big juicy targets all flock to. It's not like the victims are helpless either. Someone posted a video yesterday of their type 9 turning around and firing dozens of missiles into a pirate anaconda's nose and made him scurry back into deep space

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Ouch, I have created another PvP vs. PvE thread.

All I wanted to say is - there are small groups very passionate about their world view, despite the fact that game tries to provide rules which makes situation more balanced and fair for everyone. I have a feeling that big majority of players will play 'open play' and won't care much about all these discussions.

However, these passionate PvP and PvE players would gain so much if they would....just keep mouth shut for example. Because it looks like they need each other to reinforce each other's world view - for PvPers, it is 'burn baby burn, so I can taste your tears', and for PvErs that is 'they are sociopaths!'. When it is quite clear that it is kindergarten/school yard emotional feedback loop they are looking for.

 

[Xenith]

Ouch, I have created another PvP vs. PvE thread.

All I wanted to say is - there are small groups very passionate about their world view, despite the fact that game tries to provide rules which makes situation more balanced and fair for everyone. I have a feeling that big majority of players will play 'open play' and won't care much about all these discussions.

However, these passionate PvP and PvE players would gain so much if they would....just keep mouth shut for example. Because it looks like they need each other to reinforce each other's world view - for PvPers, it is 'burn baby burn, so I can taste your tears', and for PvErs that is 'they are sociopaths!'. When it is quite clear that it is kindergarten/school yard emotional feedback loop they are looking for.

As long as the game continues to cater to both groups, then there shouldn't be an issue. It's when one certain group tries to impose their way of playing the game on others, that's when the pitchforks and torches come out.

 

[Meritz]

It's my overall experience, that PvP servers in any MMO are not a place you go if you're looking for the best in humanity. Not at all. In fact, I can't remember the last time I played on a PvP server, and actually saw someone NOT being a to another person. Even the conversations read like something a school kid would come out with!

That's not quite true - it depends on the playerbase. Playerbase depends on the target audience and the mentality the game encourages.

For example, themepark MMOs often attract (and are aimed at) younger audience. The PvP crowd there tends to be more immature as a result. Sandbox MMOs attract older audience, gamers who got a taste of olden goldies like Ultima, Everquest, Daggerfall etc. and liked it, or younger gamers who prefer typically more complex gameplay sandbox games offer. As a result, sandbox PvPers tend to be more mature.

And then there's e-peening. Currently the only game that actively encourages that is EvE - as a result the playerbase is a mix of mature, fun players and douchebags.

ED will also attract an older audience. It however, lacks the turf war mechanics EvE has. As a result I expect the PvP crowd to be generally more pleasant.

Also consider that it is not only PvPers who can be unpleasant. On the whole, so far I saw far more toxic behavior from PvE players on these forums than PvPers.

 

[Xenith]

That's not quite true - it depends on the playerbase. Playerbase depends on the target audience and the mentality the game encourages.

As I said, it's my experience as an MMO player for the last 11 years. PvP servers are toxic in nearly every game, and that's why I don't play on them any more.

 

[Meritz]

As I said, it's my experience as an MMO player for the last 11 years. PvP servers are toxic in nearly every game, and that's why I don't play on them any more.

I would be interested in knowing which MMOs you played. My experience has been different, and I play almost exclusively on PvP servers even though I'm not an avid PvPer - I simply enjoy the challenge of having to watch out for myself - considering most MMOs sport big swords and even bigger guns, I find it more immersive too. ' roleplayer here, immersion is king for me.

Granted, I rarely read server-specific forums. Is that what you find toxic?

 

[Celeste]

Ouch, I have created another PvP vs. PvE thread.

All I wanted to say is - there are small groups very passionate about their world view, despite the fact that game tries to provide rules which makes situation more balanced and fair for everyone. I have a feeling that big majority of players will play 'open play' and won't care much about all these discussions.

However, these passionate PvP and PvE players would gain so much if they would....just keep mouth shut for example. Because it looks like they need each other to reinforce each other's world view - for PvPers, it is 'burn baby burn, so I can taste your tears', and for PvErs that is 'they are sociopaths!'. When it is quite clear that it is kindergarten/school yard emotional feedback loop they are looking for.

What? No, that's not it at all. A lot of PVP players are just selfish and apparently don't like to see PVE players having fun in PVE gameplay.

When have you ever seen PVE players try to force PVP players into PVE game play, or get on the forums and try to persuade the developers to change game mechanics to force the PVP players into PVE game play? NEVER. PVE players just want to play a game and have fun and not at the expense of someone elses fun.

 

[Togg]

I have been playing open MMO's for the better part of 20 years. I really don't care who I fight against.. PvP'rs... PvE'rs... NPC. who I fight means less than nothing to me.

but in all those years, I never once got a message from a PvP'r that went beyond "Oh, you got me... better watch out cause i'm coming for you"

Most of the times it goes more like "NICE one!" "hahaha, you caught me" or "Nice fight, lets do it again"

however , I have received multiple real life death threats from PvE'rs. some threatening to hunt me down and kill me.. one was to set my house on fire and shoot me and my family as we ran out... the one that was the worst though was the one that threatened to kidnap and **** my wife.

in all honesty, PvE'rs are the worst. yes I turned in those threats to the developers. all of those people were banned for life from those different games. so don't ever tell me PvP'rs are toxic, I have seen for myself that isn't true.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I have been playing open MMO's for the better part of 20 years. I really don't care who I fight against.. PvP'rs... PvE'rs... NPC. who I fight means less than nothing to me.

but in all those years, I never once got a message from a PvP'r that went beyond "Oh, you got me... better watch out cause i'm coming for you"

Most of the times it goes more like "NICE one!" "hahaha, you caught me" or "Nice fight, lets do it again"

however , I have received multiple real life death threats from PvE'rs. some threatening to hunt me down and kill me.. one was to set my house on fire and shoot me and my family as we ran out... the one that was the worst though was the one that threatened to kidnap and **** my wife.

in all honesty, PvE'rs are the worst. yes I turned in those threats to the developers. all of those people were banned for life from those different games. so don't ever tell me PvP'rs are toxic, I have seen for myself that isn't true.

Way to go, characterising a complete play-style group because of (admittedly terrible) experiences with a few crazies. I'm surprised that you didn't inform the police.

People will over-react - it's human nature, especially when emotions run high (as some players seem to crave emotional stimulation from their games). Some of those who over-react *really* go for it and cross borders of even marginally acceptable behaviour.

It matters not what group they belong to - I would expect that some PvPers have expressed less than savoury behaviours on occasion....

 

[Wavey]

What? No, that's not it at all. A lot of PVP players are just selfish and apparently don't like to see PVE players having fun in PVE gameplay.

When have you ever seen PVE players try to force PVP players into PVE game play, or get on the forums and try to persuade the developers to change game mechanics to force the PVP players into PVE game play? NEVER. PVE players just want to play a game and have fun and not at the expense of someone elses fun.

Good post I backed this game because of the options to avoid enforced pvp .I wonder if PVE should be enforced as a penalty for those that decide killing is their way ,it could be quite funny

 

[Wavey]

I have been playing open MMO's for the better part of 20 years. I really don't care who I fight against.. PvP'rs... PvE'rs... NPC. who I fight means less than nothing to me.

but in all those years, I never once got a message from a PvP'r that went beyond "Oh, you got me... better watch out cause i'm coming for you"

Most of the times it goes more like "NICE one!" "hahaha, you caught me" or "Nice fight, lets do it again"

however , I have received multiple real life death threats from PvE'rs. some threatening to hunt me down and kill me.. one was to set my house on fire and shoot me and my family as we ran out... the one that was the worst though was the one that threatened to kidnap and **** my wife.

in all honesty, PvE'rs are the worst. yes I turned in those threats to the developers. all of those people were banned for life from those different games. so don't ever tell me PvP'rs are toxic, I have seen for myself that isn't true.

Quite the opposite here ,ive had threats to destroy my websites and personal stuff in a very nasty way from pvp ers so it can be true .There are always two sides to a story but sometimes one is very wrong
I take it you had done nothing to deserve such threats ?

 

[Herik]

Quite the opposite here ,ive had threats to destroy my websites and personal stuff in a very nasty way from pvp ers so it can be true .There are always two sides to a story but sometimes one is very wrong
I take it you had done nothing to deserve such threats ?

Good Wavey1; I won't question Togg's veracity; but he's wearing his (selective) blinkers...

 

[Celeste]

Good post I backed this game because of the options to avoid enforced pvp .I wonder if PVE should be enforced as a penalty for those that decide killing is their way ,it could be quite funny

Thanks, and yeah, I like the way it's set up. Don't get me wrong I wasn't saying all PVP players are like that. In fact it's usually only a few bad apples that spoil the bunch(griefers)and give them a bad name. Most are genuinely competitive and are just out to have fun.

 

[Togg]

Good Wavey1; I won't question Togg's veracity; but he's wearing his (selective) blinkers...

selective blinkers?.. come back and repeat that once you've had a death threat issued against you or someone you care about. not one time have I ever had a threat from a person that can be called a PvP'er.. every single one of the threats against me were issued from PvE'ers. and yes, I did Gank, Ambush, kill them in game. but I never used a exploit, or a hack, and I never went after new players in starter systems. I did all of mine in legit fashion in areas that were considered fair game.

now to the guy who got the threats from a PvP'er to wreck his website, I can see your point of view, but my experiences for me are quite different.

 

[Meritz]

Quite the opposite here ,ive had threats to destroy my websites and personal stuff in a very nasty way from pvp ers so it can be true .There are always two sides to a story but sometimes one is very wrong
I take it you had done nothing to deserve such threats ?

Deserve? There is NOTHING anyone can do gameplay wise that would justify that kind of ****.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Jesus people, there are people with emotional control issues regardless what they are playing. Death threads because of the game?! Seriously?! Someone needs to get off from the computer, get somewhere nice, and work on himself. Such emotions will eat you alive.

Also my message seem to disappear in a noise. All I want is game which is not PvE or PvP...but which are there pirates, assassins, bounty hunters, traders - both NPC and PC.

I despise measuring which has bigger, yet I also don't understand being afraid losing to player. When I was young, we had lot of heated games...but we never were that cynical as fans of this PvP vs PvE circle. We had fantasy, which allowed us to compete by the rules, and loser usually didn't go nuts because it was just a game.

ED is just a game. Why everything you do should be extension of your competition game you are playing for life?

 

[Defacto]

Some people take games too seriously and it ends up with them doing horrible things to other persons. And themselves.

Let this never happen to our community! Let us come here to discuss constructively, in an enlighting fashion! Or something.

Really, no one gains anything from forum brawls. Everyone gains from constructive discussion.

 

[Mikkel Toxwenius]

Remember in FE2 or FE where there was a hyperjump cloud left over and you could use your hyperjump cloud scanner (I think?) to see where that ship jumped to? You could actually stalk you assasination target to through other systems, to them landing on a planet/station, then wait for them to take off and stalk them again until finally blam! mission accomplished (at least that's how I remember it). That would be a hell of an awesome way to conduct PVP I think. Pirates could be lurking outside stations that sells precious metals, and scan transports for valuble cargo and then analyze hyperjump clouds to follow their victims. Victims could have a chance of knowing something fishy was going on due to heavily armed ships hanging around the station.

 

[Antmax]

Just keep speaking up so you have a voice and let FD take care of it. So long as they know there is a problem then it can be fixed.

PvP is fine to a point, there are even designated areas where it is quite acceptable.

The problem is with people who feel they should be able to basically **** non combatants like they are NPC's with no concept of fair play whatsoever. The more skewed the odds in their favor the better and without retribution. It seems most of this specific type of PvP player feels that it is unfair to have police forces and bounties on them. They basically want a giant free for all deathmatch arena.

That is not what this game is about. Hopefully as new features are implemented it will be self regulating and those particular PvP players will have their behaviour reprogrammed in the process.

The game has already improved since PB. Back then I ended up leaving if another player was in the same conflict zone as me. Because 2/3 times someone on my own side would backstab me. Hasn't happened in a while. In fact I flew a hauler with no weapons for a couple of days in safe zones no problem. And now have a Viper with the stock loaned pulse laser for my fast courier service and go everywhere including less savory systems with only a little trouble.

The game has been petty tame since SB was released.