Beyond did literally nothing to help the grind.

[Truesilver]

Did you read the OP? I spent a bunch of time in sc looking for a specific material, and I didn't get it because of RNG.

I read it, yeah. Didn't find it super-easy to follow but not a criticism. I tried to respond constructively and asked what the choke point was. Is Proto Radiolic the choke here?

Look, I am 100% with you. I hate what you hate. It's painful. Proto Raidiolic is a top-tier mat, tier 5/5 at the trader so I agree that's a problem.

What I would say, though, is that if that's what we're talking about, it's an exception. Most are fine.

So, let's tag these exceptions and lobby on them. I will join you.

But probably the thread needs to be a bit more specific on what the target is and the title needs that as well. Most of the forum and I'm guessing most of the Devs just won't clock it, otherwise.

 

[Crank Larson]

But wait! Material brokers!! Hurrah!!! Off to Inara to find out where one is because it would be stupid if I could just find that out in the game obviously.

But you can find it out in game. Just filter the galaxy map.

 

[CMDR Pugwash]

As for Sandy's comments, they did finally realise people were serious when they said material drops were way too low and increased them all to three times their original amounts so who knows, maybe there will actually be an outbreak of common sense in a while.

I'm not holding my breath. They'd actually have to think it all through.

 

[Darty]

I guess I just don't appreciate the volume of modding and the requirement to have it now that goes on. My moderate stance on things makes the Mat Traders seem like a boon. I can fill some holes, and upgrade my meager modules and be on my way. I wouldn't enjoy, nor allow myself to be driven to despair over something like 18 modules, let alone 18 just FSD's. It looks like I never expected the Mat Traders to alleviate obsessions.

Maybe other people just have differing playstyles to your own and the fact that they are asking for a small improvement that would literally take the devs less time to implement than it took me to write the op and wouldn't effect your playstyle in any way, isn't something for you to, hehe, obsess over?

 

[Darty]

But you can find it out in game. Just filter the galaxy map.

LOL

Here's how it works in game: First, you have to have visited the system. Even if you have the system data by default so you could MANUALLY confirm that there is a material broker, it won't show up unless you have been to that system. On top of that, you can ONLY see traders within 40 lys.

So, basically useless unless you already know where they are. This is another thing people mentioned in beta, although it was reported as a bug as no one thought it was a feature. Oh well.

 

[dfgqsb]

I think the name is wrong.

Not material trader，but material downgrader.

If you want to use any function other than down grading materials, pay a higher price for the trouble.

 

[Darty]

I read it, yeah. Didn't find it super-easy to follow but not a criticism. I tried to respond constructively and asked what the choke point was. Is Proto Radiolic the choke here?

Look, I am 100% with you. I hate what you hate. It's painful. Proto Raidiolic is a top-tier mat, tier 5/5 at the trader so I agree that's a problem.

What I would say, though, is that if that's what we're talking about, it's an exception. Most are fine.

So, let's tag these exceptions and lobby on them. I will join you.

But probably the thread needs to be a bit more specific on what the target is and the title needs that as well. Most of the forum and I'm guessing most of the Devs just won't clock it, otherwise.

Fair enough. Sorry for my rambling.

The reason I chose the title is because in my experience I only ever had a problem collecting g5 materials in 2.4. So for me, the grind hasn't gotten any better because I still have the same chokepoints as I had before. Other than a few exceptions, like cif, being able to get 9 standards for a very rare hasn't been a huge time saver for me, because I found it easy enough to get those materials anyway. I probably should have elaborated on that.

The second reason was because I was pretty upset (stupid forum filter) after having just spent an afternoon watching a streamer have fun playing videogames while I flew around in SC bored out of my mind (except for the stream I was watching of course) and had nothing to show for it because of rng. The last reason was because every time I try to make a level headed and nuanced title no-one clicks on it and the thread dies

 

[Crank Larson]

Here's how it works in game: First, you have to have visited the system. Even if you have the system data by default so you could MANUALLY confirm that there is a material broker, it won't show up unless you have been to that system. On top of that, you can ONLY see traders within 40 lys.

So visit a few systems... That's part of playing the game anyway. I've never had a problem finding a broker, and I used them to almost fully engineer my Chieftain in one evening. I was never able to engineer a ship within a week previously, so the latest updates have much improved things for me.

 

[Truesilver]

The last reason was because every time I try to make a level headed and nuanced title no-one clicks on it and the thread dies

Lol yeah, good point. On Reddit, legit threads get major updoots and die inside 24 hours anyway.

On Official, the most inane nonsense gets zombified 4ever by two guys having an argument and stays visible for three weeks.

Both approaches by the admins have their pros/cons. Probably both need a bit more sophistication.

 

[Darty]

So visit a few systems... That's part of playing the game anyway. I've never had a problem finding a broker, and I used them to almost fully engineer my Chieftain in one evening. I was never able to engineer a ship within a week previously, so the latest updates have much improved things for me.

Or I could use "Inara to find out where one is because it would be stupid if I could just find that out in the game obviously."

It's a little issue, but I really don't understand why they couldn't have just let us see all the mat traders everywhere when we did the filter, like we can with every other filter. Or at least for the systems we have data that tells us there's a material trader there, but cannot search it except manually.

 

[Crank Larson]

Or you could use "Inara to find out where one is because it would be stupid if I could just find that out in the game obviously."

Because repeating an invalid point improves it somehow?

People that play in VR tend not to want to visit sites outside the game, and these days there is absolutely no need to.

 

[Stealthie]

Gotta say, I don't really see the point in saying "Well, just don't worry about engineering".

You think many explorers would appreciate being told "Just don't bother about exploration" after complaining that the galaxy was beige?
How about telling PvPers "Just don't bother about combat" after complaining about combat logging?
Maybe tell traders "Just don't bother about trading" when they complain about the lack of a dynamic economy?

Engineering is an aspect of the game and people enjoy it either as a means to an end or simply as a standalone activity.

That being the case, if the only advice you can give is "just don't bother about it" then save yourself the effort of typing because you have nothing worthwhile to say.

 

[Vasious]

You literally have to if you want to be competitive in open so that's pretty bad advice.

But doesn't that apply to all competition
You want to compete you got to put in more effect than the next person.

When the "if you want to compete" line comes up it always feels like saying I want to compete in foot races but all this training is a grind can I skip it.

The mind set creates the grind, not the game as of it is just a game for fun then what happens happens at it's own pace

The person's apporach creates the perception of fun or grind.

52 blocks of chocolate eaten one a week or all in one sittings, one will be great the other a grind but doesn't mean the grind is inherently in the chocolate

 

[Red Anders]

But you can find it out in game. Just filter the galaxy map.

Not quite.

You can find them on the galaxy map after you have already visited them by using the filter. Of course, by then I can find them on the galaxy map without the filter too by virtue of having a functioning memory.

 

[Red Anders]

People that play in VR tend not to want to visit sites outside the game, and these days there is absolutely no need to.

You have got to be taking the mickey.

We can't even filter by a combination of more than 'vague population' plus one more possible attribute of a system on the galaxy map or get more than the vaguest possible idea of what modules may be available in a system, let alone a station, after three years. There's 'no need to' use external resources if you're perfectly happy flying around like some old biddy pottering around the shops every time you want to buy something or find something, not really my thing in gaming though that.

 

[rhiz]

Trading down does give very favourable rates.

However the point of material brokers was in part to address the issue of the multilayered RNG grind that some top-tier materials require, for example having to find a system with a specific allegiance and state using a map with filters that deliberately prevent you from filtering by both criteria at once, then having to fly around in deep space waiting for USS spawns and praying that when one does appear it will be the rarest kind. My record for not finding a high grade USS whilst in the right place to find one is over an hour thanks to the game throwing dice.

The trade-up rates are such that they don't really impact on that much.

Prime example from today - I wanted to do my Orca's drives to new G5 DD. They've already got G5 DD from 2.4 engineering but they're nothing like an old God-roll so the new G5 is attractive.

I had 19 chemical manipulators when I logged in. Then I converted my Orca's old G5 range-enhanced FSD which sets it to the top of the new G4 and rolled it to the new G5 limit. 9 rolls. 10 chemical manipulators left.

Check my pharmaceutical isolators stock for the Orca's drives. Hmmm. I have 1. It just took 9 rolls to upgrade a mod from G4 to G4. This is not going to be enough.

But wait! Material brokers!! Hurrah!!! Off to Inara to find out where one is because it would be stupid if I could just find that out in the game obviously.

Jump > Jump > dock > Broker.

Ah. I can trade 6 of my 10 chemical manipulators for 1 pharmaceutical isolator. That's still not going to be enough, plus I have another 18 FSDs to upgrade so I kind of want my chemical manipulators. Ok let's see what I can trade up from any of my next tier of materials.

*Looks at screen, blinks, laughs, opens galmap to find a high population independent system in outbreak*

*flies round in supercruise in the middle of nowhere for 45 minutes*

Went for dinner. Haven't bothered logging back in.

This made me laugh – it pretty much mirrors my experience since the release. I considered myself fairly adept at the old system and finding G5 mats in general, but it feels as though I could have outfitted an entire ship to G5 under the old system in the time it has taken me to convert and max out a couple of G5 modules under the new.

It must be me, right? I’m still waiting for the penny to drop. I have around 14 engineered ships to convert, so I guess that I have plenty of time.

 

[Crank Larson]

I should probably have realised from the thread title that there was no point in me giving an alternate point of view. I'll leave you to your pointless ranting.

 

[Stealthie]

Not quite.

You can find them on the galaxy map after you have already visited them by using the filter. Of course, by then I can find them on the galaxy map without the filter too by virtue of having a functioning memory.

Erm, not sure about that.

It seemed to be working like that for me for the first couple of days but now it seems to be working more usefully, by showing mat-traders that are (I assume) at any station I've visited at any time in the past.

I thought I'd bite the bullet and do a tour around all the MTs INARA was listing, just to get them to show up on my gal-map, and after I'd visited about a dozen I realised - the next day - that a whole heap of them are now showing up.

Course, I don't really see why they're not just a permanent feature on the map.
It seems needlessly sadistic to hide stuff like that from the player.

 

[Darty]

Because repeating an invalid point improves it somehow?

People that play in VR tend not to want to visit sites outside the game, and these days there is absolutely no need to.

Just because a poorly implemented feature is better than no feature doesn't mean it isn't poorly implemented. Also I find that visiting sites outside of the game is necessary not only for information but for entertainment as so much of the game is just monotonous repetition (especially when grinding) that having a something else to do greatly increases my enjoyment. But that's just me.

But doesn't that apply to all competition
You want to compete you got to put in more effect than the next person.

When the "if you want to compete" line comes up it always feels like saying I want to compete in foot races but all this training is a grind can I skip it.

The mind set creates the grind, not the game as of it is just a game for fun then what happens happens at it's own pace

The person's apporach creates the perception of fun or grind.

52 blocks of chocolate eaten one a week or all in one sittings, one will be great the other a grind but doesn't mean the grind is inherently in the chocolate

If I wanted to spend hours doing mind-numbingly boring tasks to get some superficial currency so I could have a leg up on everyone else I would just do more work IRL to earn more money. I'm not against having to practice my skills to be good in game, like a runner or baseball player does, but I don't want to do what is often less fun than things I have gotten PAID to do just to be on even footing. This is a game not a job.

 

[rhiz]

Erm, not sure about that.

It seemed to be working like that for me for the first couple of days but now it seems to be working more usefully, by showing mat-traders that are (I assume) at any station I've visited at any time in the past.

Really? I'm not consistently seeing Traders that I visited yesterday. [haha]