Immersion Please Not Credit Grind!

CMDR Promelheus

C
First and foremost I would like to take the time to clarify that player dissent is a good sign for developers. It signifies that players are invested in a game and genuinely care about the progress. I'm talking about genuine dissent not "whining". The fact that players speak out is a good thing. Elite Dangerous is by far one of the most expansive games I've played....Ever. I've been playing for over a year and a half, something I have done with no other game before. I love this game and will continue to love it. BUT what I don't enjoy is being pressured or steered into a certain playstyle...especially in an open ended game. I personally enjoy PVP (I know its not for everyone), I love the competition and the player interactions. I find myself engaging in the PVP community even at work! (Shhhhh! Don't tell the boss!) Fact is though that PVP (or any playstyle for that matter) takes credits. Constant cash flow is nessecary, especially when new ships are emerging (good thing!).

I don't WANT to grind money. I don't like board flipping, or travelling an hour in Supercruise, or shooting 100's of skimmers. It is simply a means to an end. The game has many facets which I have not yet experienced, I've never been to Sag A, or even seen a black hole! I haven't seen a Guardian site, or Colonia, or recovered Jameson's messages. I want to but am perverbially stuck. GRIND GRIND GRIND!
I get it though. New players want to jump right in and feel what the old players have put in hundreds of hours to accomplish. It's a nasty situation. I've heard about embracing the "Gold Rush", higher payouts on CG's, Trade, Explo, and Bounties. Some of these are very intriguing thoughts....but they don't solve the core issue. How can you engage new players without spurning the veterans? Let's be honest here, the old folks probably deserve some leisure in the game and the new guys need to put some time in. So whats the solution?

Immersion! This is probably the largest driving force behind most players involvement in the game. We want to fall into a game, but it's hard when our human logic breaks down in game. Skimmer missions, Smeaton Runs, Quince Scans...none of this is REALLY immersive, in fact grind is immersion's evil nephew thats here for the summer and won't leave you alone, when all you really wanna do is go hang out by the pool. It's just not cool.

Currently I sit on 4 Billion in assets, own all of the big ships plus many more, but I only fly 1 at a time, while the others collect dust. If, in real life I owned mulitply transport vessels, I would be the worlds worst business man if I let 10+ vessels set idle, doing nothing. NO! I would hire people and have those vessels work for me. Why can't we do that!? Let my trade Cutter go trade, let my Corvette go bounty hunt. All the while I'm burning my way to the center of the Galaxy in my AspEx. PASSIVE INCOME! The more ships I have the more I make. The veterans get their justified income, and the newbies have something to work towards. In reality, I don't see missions as Immersive, I just don't see that in real life....I pick something up here and sell it over there. I bag a bad guy and collect the bounty. No extra money for doing "X" amount. Real Immersion in game for me is Investing time, and earning justified rewards.This galaxy that we play in is set in one of the most complex economies ever. Let me invest in that, and reap good rewareds from it. Let me hire an NPC (or even a real player!) to fly my ships, and I take a cut. Sprinkle in some RNG risk/reward senarios and things get really interesting, sometimes I win, sometimes filthy pirates take my stuff, sometimes the markets crash and I'm in the damn hole! I'm ok with that. I hire a person for a day and only make 100k, a month and I make 100 mil. My Cutter makes more than a sidewinder. Elite pilots cost more up front but make more in long term contracts. Really the options are endless. And all the while I get to go enjoy the many facets this game has to offer while still making money.
 

Darth Nerferous

Darth Nerferous
Everybody wants to know, how much income per hour was intended by FDev? Explain your Logic to us. But don’t temporarily cut Core Gameplay Mechanics, just cause FDev cannot stand that we are making profit. First Scan Missions, then Passenger Missions and now Skimmers. What’s next to be nerfed? I guess people will nerf your Game and Head for something more enjoyable. Wanna loose your Playerbase Frontier? You are doing your best to do so.
 

rhiz

rhiz
I think it’s safe to say that at 4 billion in assets you could probably lay off the credit grind at this point :). I assume that you also have a bit of cash put aside for a rainy day. I agree with your general point though, if for no other reason that it doesn’t make much sense to me that a multi-billionaire with a fleet of ships would still be forced to run around like a delivery boy. I agree, I think that it would add a great deal in terms of interest, strategy and longevity. The X-series of games were flawed in many ways, but the scripting system was quite impressive. You’ll hear the piloting purists balk at the idea, but I don’t see why the game couldn’t be expanded in this direction. It would be great to be able to set up automated trade routes, defend them ourselves or even employ other players to do so.
 

MarkAusten

MarkAusten
You are missing the point, I think. There is nothing in the game the forces you to partake of the gold rush missions and break your immersion.

Personally, I like the gold rushes and want more of them. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Gold rushes should be a deliberate part of Elite. Short lived, perhaps as long as a week, and in varying places and more than one at a time, constantly varying. That would be good.

And if you want to be immersive about this sort of thing, remember the gold rush days that the USA had in the 19th century. Or the stock market booms and crashes of modern times. Same sort of thing.
 

rhiz

rhiz
I also think that it would be healthy if there was the possibility of losing a genuine fortune. Beyond a certain point, there’s really no risk of this as a result of re-buys alone (you’d have to unbelievably incompetent). This is one of the reasons why I think station ownership would be a good thing. With big investment comes big risk, and if you make poor economic decisions there’s a chance that you could lose it all and end up penniless and back in a sidewinder.
 

zombieapocalypse

zombieapocalypse
MarkAusten said:
You are missing the point, I think. There is nothing in the game the forces you to partake of the gold rush missions and break your immersion.

Personally, I like the gold rushes and want more of them. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Gold rushes should be a deliberate part of Elite. Short lived, perhaps as long as a week, and in varying places and more than one at a time, constantly varying. That would be good.

And if you want to be immersive about this sort of thing, remember the gold rush days that the USA had in the 19th century. Or the stock market booms and crashes of modern times. Same sort of thing.
Click to expand...
I think Obsidian Ant made the same suggestion in his recent video. It's a good idea, especially if they could make them varied, interesting and fit within the game's lore. They could even incorporate them into some of the CGs.

rhiz said:
I also think that it would be healthy if there was the possibility of losing a genuine fortune. Beyond a certain point, there’s really no risk of this as a result of re-buys alone (you’d have to unbelievably incompetent). This is one of the reasons why I think station ownership would be a good thing. With big investment comes big risk, and if you make poor economic decisions there’s a chance that you could lose it all and end up penniless and back in a sidewinder.
Click to expand...
Space casinos and intergalactic poker!
 

[DOOK] Droogie

[DOOK] Droogie
zombieapocalypse said:
Space casinos and intergalactic poker!
Click to expand...

They already tried that.

NgmFvcD_d.jpg
 

Saltyseadog

Saltyseadog
As an aid to immersion I would like to see more and better interactive npc crew members. I think it would be great to have an engineer who would tell you the state of your machinery/drives etc and possibly advise on upgrades. A weapons tech who would do similar regarding weapons would also be a find and an XO to offer job/transport etc advice. At present we have the option for a fighter pilot but the vocabulary would need to be better as one of the main minuses that the game has for me anyway is the limited amount of interplay there is between them and all the other NPC's. You get quickly tired of hearing the same stock phrases. Probably too technical for the game at present but hopefully in the future.
 

[VR] scipio_77

[VR] scipio_77
There are ways that are explored in other games.

Being able to buy businesses for a minor income on the side, having a few henchmen that could do menial tasks like trading mats or flying off a ship for engineering. Doesn't have to be earth-shattering stuff, this first and foremost being a cockpit game, not a management game. But being able to feel like you could pass on some of the more menial tasks would be nice.

More impact on systems. If you gank 200 pirates, maybe there is less pirates, maybe local police ships give you some friendly messages, maybe the local factions will give you a small salary for a while. Being able to call for support if you have high rank. Again, you don't need the Imperial Navy to send its finest battleships, but a few trusty minor ships to disrupt the pirate warlord could be nice. We have rank in the major factions, but maybe smaller factions could give out some merits. A little gold to go on the space-suit is always nice... I'm sure you could have a plethora of players just scrounging for the coolest looking awards.

Don't make everything a tedious grind. Some things can be allowed to just build up in the background, giving you that warm fuzzy feeling of knowing that your time spent looking for the perfect sunset still means that some progress is being made.

Make missions a bit more epic. Don't just fetch things, do something that matters. Maybe they need construction materials, and if you deliver them... those constructions in the station will finish. Perhaps that letter could be a blockade-run, the station being besieged.

Racing ships/shuttles. Non-hardpoint vessels for just zipping around and exploring the system, a space-faring version of the SRV. Could even make them moddable, so rich people with time on their hands can compete on having the coolest sportship.

Have players or wings that do particularly daring deeds mentioned in the news.

Local system news.

Naming contests for particularly shiny places in space.

Automated mining operations. Put the effort into setting them up, enjoy a low influx of cash, cargo and perhaps the odd mat. Rebuy system.

Have some NPCs remember you and be persistent.

Well, a few suggestions.
 

Variform

Variform
MarkAusten said:
You are missing the point, I think. There is nothing in the game the forces you to partake of the gold rush missions and break your immersion.

Personally, I like the gold rushes and want more of them. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Gold rushes should be a deliberate part of Elite. Short lived, perhaps as long as a week, and in varying places and more than one at a time, constantly varying. That would be good.

And if you want to be immersive about this sort of thing, remember the gold rush days that the USA had in the 19th century. Or the stock market booms and crashes of modern times. Same sort of thing.
Click to expand...

These temporary things I find them hard. So I never done any of it. It is all too abstract for me, it doesn't come alive. I think of them as peddling tickets which is a stupid thing. What about e-mail? What, they need me to come into the office?

So I have to go someplace and pick up some item and deliver if for a high profit. How inspiring. So I have to leave what I am doing and fly half across known space? Jump after jump after jump? And how much am I gonna make, it is a mystery. I play solo so do I feel I am having some impact? No.

CG's, another Mystery. Often they are in Pleiades and involve aliens. How quaint. I don't like to be blown to bits thank you, I am grinding hard enough to deal with the pirates that kill me. And it takes hours to get there anyway.

Right now I must collect 200 gold for some engineer. The planning involved! I can't carry it, don't have the cash, so I should mine it. To me that is already a Huge Thing. I don't play often and most of the time I am fighting control schemes because updates usually screw up something.

When it involves numbers I have issues. I am no good with them. Calculating profit and taking into account time involvement...pff. My biggest sense of accomplishment is when I manage to fly in a load of cargo without too much hassle.

I don't like to travel. For me 10 jumps is a wow. So I don't understand what kinda brain it takes to fly to the black hole, to explore so far away. I don't get excited by Thargoid storylines and don't know what to do with it or participate in things. And it is too much reading and learning to try to understand it all.

One of the problems for me is that nothing is ever made really clear. So you can have 100 of these gold rushes a week but I wouldn't know how to handle all that.
 

CMDR Promelheus

C
Herbrand said:
Then don't. But of course, if you choose not to, you must scaled down the expectations of things you can do in this game accordingly.
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It's an open ended game, as I said before I enjoy the PVP side, believe me this can get expensive fast, and with the new C&P system having multiple ships is nessecary for the life I've chosen. Please don't get caught up in the details of my play, it was simply an example that no matter how you choose to play the game, there will never be enough money. The grind will always be here. A passive income system would allow players to earn money at their leisure and go off to enjoy the game as they see fit.
 

MarkAusten

MarkAusten
zombieapocalypse said:
I think Obsidian Ant made the same suggestion in his recent video. It's a good idea, especially if they could make them varied, interesting and fit within the game's lore. They could even incorporate them into some of the CGs.
Click to expand...

He has indeed, but he may have got that from me! I've been saying and posting that for ages. So have other players so he may have got it from them rather than me. It would certainly shut up the gold rush whiners.....

Nah, never going to happen. :)

Fenris Wolf said:
You want a boat? Should've gone on Bullseye!

(one for the older players)
Click to expand...

Bernie? The bolt.

No, that's even older and wrong!
 
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