Wing missions reward nonsense

[Kyokushin]

I tried a wing missions with friends.

What a socialistic nonsense. Thats all what i can say.

I am taking mission for example 2 mln cr. I need to for examle transport 1000 tonnes of crap.

And now two folks are joining us, and we both need to transport 1000 tonnes. Me 500 and folks 500.
1000 tonnes are transported.

So why the hell our income is multiplied not divided? Each of us should earn at least 1/3 of reward NOT ENTIRE REWARD.

Mission profit should be divided, If someone will transprot 1000 tones alone then he should earn all, IF someone will get a friends, he should earn half, because he will spend a half of time on it.

If someone will kill strong enemy alone, then he should get entire reward. If he not got gut and is unable, then he should wing-up then split reward.

Dear FDev. Please imagine something. You are hiring a developer. His salary is 7000 EUR for write simple application.
He did application but told you a two friends helped him and YOU need to pay 21000 EUR instead of 7000, because he did a winged project

have fun.

 

[coca_fr]

They did that in order to push wing mission.

But they are doing it the wrong way as wing mission pays so low compared to what you can stack solo (with wing or not).

Too bad coz if they were paying high it would have given a great incensitive to use new Type-9 cargo capacity in wings and have a great experience.

It would have provided great gameplay : You hire protection and you are attacked by pirates.

But for that payment should have been very high and divided among players with a lot of NPC attack.

 

[evanevery]

I tried a wing missions with friends.

What a socialistic nonsense. Thats all what i can say.

I am taking mission for example 2 mln cr. I need to for examle transport 1000 tonnes of crap.

And now two folks are joining us, and we both need to transport 1000 tonnes. Me 500 and folks 500.
1000 tonnes are transported.

So why the hell our income is multiplied not divided? Each of us should earn at least 1/3 of reward NOT ENTIRE REWARD.

Mission profit should be divided, If someone will transprot 1000 tones alone then he should earn all, IF someone will get a friends, he should earn half, because he will spend a half of time on it.

If someone will kill strong enemy alone, then he should get entire reward. If he not got gut and is unable, then he should wing-up then split reward.

Dear FDev. Please imagine something. You are hiring a developer. His salary is 7000 EUR for write simple application.
He did application but told you a two friends helped him and YOU need to pay 21000 EUR instead of 7000, because he did a winged project

have fun.

EACH pilot gets the full reward? I kinda wondered about this but thought "surely not"... I guess I was wrong (again).

So whats the max number of folks in a Wing? That seems to be the question...

EDIT: Just checked. Max Wing = 4. So four folks with 250T capacity each can get the full payout in 1 run for 1000T.

Also sounds like a great way to bootstrap new players by having them join an experienced wing, minimally participate, yet get the full payout...

 

[ShimEnki]

I probably mis-read your gripe cmdr...it seems that you are sore that everyone is getting the entire reward in this era of CR nerfing?

If so...really?

 

[evanevery]

I probably mis-read your gripe cmdr...it seems that you are sore that everyone is getting the entire reward in this era of CR nerfing?

If so...really?

Yeah - Really! I completely agree with the OP. I have no problem making lots of credits (trust me) but this is just beyond stupid...

Moving a particular cargo from Point A to Point B should pay X credits/per ton. It shouldn't matter how many runs you have to make or how many people are involved. You want to move widgets from A to B the going rate is X/Ton. Thats the way it works in real life. No one gives a crap if your using 1 truck or 20, they just want to move X Tons and will give you Y credits to do it. (Now we shall wait for someone to pupup with the inevitable corner case where time is a factor, etc).

As far as that goes, ANY cargo mission should be doable as a Wing Mission (or not). Why not?

We can discuss various methods to SHARE the payout between multiple commanders (...based on percentage of goal completed? ...or just let the commanders split it up at their own discretion), but no way everyone should get the full payout.

1000T by 1 cmdr in 4 runs = 14 Mil each (for that cmdr)
500T by 2 cmdrs in 2 runs = 14 Mil each (28 Mil cost to the shipper)
250T by 4 cmdrs in 1 run = 14 Mil each (56 Mil cost to the shipper)

...or 333T by 3 cmdrs and - 1T by 1 noob cmdr in a sidewinder - all in 1 run = 14 Mil each!

No, sorry, if that's the way it truly is, then its surely broken... Really?

 

[coca_fr]

As far as that goes, ANY cargo mission should be doable as a Wing Mission (or not).

That ! yes !

 

[Eldragon]

Dear OP: The Mission reward is based on the assumption you have 4 people working to complete it.

Don't believe me? Look at any solo mission, and calculate the pay/ton.

Then look at the Wing mission going to the same place. Calculate the pay/ton.

You will notice the wing mission pays about 1/3 to 1/4 as much.

Should the game just make the base pay the full reward and divide it based on number of players who completed it? Yes.

 

[bigity]

I tried a wing missions with friends.

What a socialistic nonsense. Thats all what i can say.

I am taking mission for example 2 mln cr. I need to for examle transport 1000 tonnes of crap.

And now two folks are joining us, and we both need to transport 1000 tonnes. Me 500 and folks 500.
1000 tonnes are transported.

So why the hell our income is multiplied not divided? Each of us should earn at least 1/3 of reward NOT ENTIRE REWARD.

Mission profit should be divided, If someone will transprot 1000 tones alone then he should earn all, IF someone will get a friends, he should earn half, because he will spend a half of time on it.

If someone will kill strong enemy alone, then he should get entire reward. If he not got gut and is unable, then he should wing-up then split reward.

Dear FDev. Please imagine something. You are hiring a developer. His salary is 7000 EUR for write simple application.
He did application but told you a two friends helped him and YOU need to pay 21000 EUR instead of 7000, because he did a winged project

have fun.

This was brought up during the beta feedback. My recommendation was to simply make ALL missions work for a solo player or a wing. A set amount of a task (kill, haul, scan, whatever), and a set payment (split among all participants, either by participation or by wing choice, whatever).

Then, ANY mission becomes wing mission or solo mission for folks who don't mind hauling biowaste to the same station 6 times in their new T-9.

There was balking about 'balance' issues, as if NPCs presented a challenge to begin with.

 

[Gun Star]

I'm doing 4 Wing Cargo missions solo 1 system apart with close entry ports. I'm using my Type 9 setup for 720 tons. I split 2 going one way then 2 on the way back with some data runs on top of that. I'm going to make about 40-50 mil doing it for about 2 hours of work. I like them as a break from the other stuff I've been doing.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

This is a legacy of the initial Wings implementation, and everyone b*tching that it was unrewarding.
FD caved and gave multiplied bounties.

This is also what happens when you treat every update as a set of new features instead of making things that are already there just work together.

FD Intern: "Hey, we have missions and we have wings, they should work together."
Sockpuppet: "Nope, that's going to be an entirely separate feature."

 

[evanevery]

Dear OP: The Mission reward is based on the assumption you have 4 people working to complete it.

Don't believe me? Look at any solo mission, and calculate the pay/ton.

Then look at the Wing mission going to the same place. Calculate the pay/ton.

You will notice the wing mission pays about 1/3 to 1/4 as much.

Should the game just make the base pay the full reward and divide it based on number of players who completed it? Yes.

I've been working a relatively lucrative extraction economy since before 3.0 and the Wing missions pay SUBSTANTIALLY less per ton then the solo missions. They just aren't worth running at all.

Just to put it in perspective: Most "heavy metal" cargo missions from my "favorite" station go to one of 2 other stations. These delivery stations systems are both about 13LY from my extraction system. One station is has a 2000LS arrival, the other station has a 500LS arrival. (My extraction station has a crazy close arrival like 10 LS or something...) I can take SOLO missions at about 7 Mil for 120-180T. I can take 14 Mil Wing Missions for 2000+T.

So, in 1 jump in my Cutter I can easily make 25-30 Mil. Or I can take a Wing Mission, do THREE ROUND TRIPS and make 14 Mil. In three trips solo, I might be able to make 90 Mil!

The Wing and Solo missions are going to the exact same stations. The payout/ton is not even close. Wing mission payouts suck by comparison. Why run them at all?

 

[Zynniah]

I did check, yesterday. Wing mission was paying about 3/4 per ton of a solo mission to the same place from the same station and faction for me.

Although this doesn’t make sense in the real world, it is the only way to get people to consider wing missions for cargo runs. Grouping up and doing a bunch of wing missions will pay far more per hour than solo. We need that or wings will go the way of CQC.

Dear OP: The Mission reward is based on the assumption you have 4 people working to complete it.

Don't believe me? Look at any solo mission, and calculate the pay/ton.

Then look at the Wing mission going to the same place. Calculate the pay/ton.

You will notice the wing mission pays about 1/3 to 1/4 as much.

Should the game just make the base pay the full reward and divide it based on number of players who completed it? Yes.

 

[DeJoT]

As usual devs took the easiest path. Multiply instead of calculate.
I agree with Kyoukushin, it's simply stupid in terms of reward.

 

[ShimEnki]

Yeah - Really! I completely agree with the OP. I have no problem making lots of credits (trust me) but this is just beyond stupid...

Moving a particular cargo from Point A to Point B should pay X credits/per ton. It shouldn't matter how many runs you have to make or how many people are involved. You want to move widgets from A to B the going rate is X/Ton. Thats the way it works in real life. No one gives a crap if your using 1 truck or 20, they just want to move X Tons and will give you Y credits to do it. (Now we shall wait for someone to pupup with the inevitable corner case where time is a factor, etc).

As far as that goes, ANY cargo mission should be doable as a Wing Mission (or not). Why not?

We can discuss various methods to SHARE the payout between multiple commanders (...based on percentage of goal completed? ...or just let the commanders split it up at their own discretion), but no way everyone should get the full payout.

1000T by 1 cmdr in 4 runs = 14 Mil each (for that cmdr)
500T by 2 cmdrs in 2 runs = 14 Mil each (28 Mil cost to the shipper)
250T by 4 cmdrs in 1 run = 14 Mil each (56 Mil cost to the shipper)

...or 333T by 3 cmdrs and - 1T by 1 noob cmdr in a sidewinder - all in 1 run = 14 Mil each!

No, sorry, if that's the way it truly is, then its surely broken... Really?

Well, you are probably correct on paper, but, that these cmdrs are earning far far more that I do, hauling as Gun Star mentioned-solo and coordinating several missions with several systems means that my fellow cmdrs are what...
enjoying earning Crs. All the power to them and funky cold madina. Let this be the new way to earn what others are doing in killing skimmers....(RP) at least they are doing some good for the hungry and infected (waste) galactic population.

 

[evanevery]

1. It shouldn't matter how you run a Mission. Wing or Not.

2. The mission payout should be X credits to deliver Y Tons.

3. You should be able to do any mission in multiple runs (solo). If you don't have the cargo capacity, do it in multiple runs.

4. You should be able to do any Mission as a Wing (dividing up the cargo and payout). You can decide if you want to split the payout with buddies or not. (How it should be split would be an interesting discussion).

5. If you want to encourage folks to do a Wing mission, make it a large capacity mission with a very timely delivery schedule. Make the payout huge, but require the mission to be run in X minutes or get a heavy fine. Something which could ONLY be accomplished in a Wing and with a payout that ACTUALLY made it worthwhile.

EDIT:

5a. ...or make it such a dangerous mission that you REQUIRE an escort and will surely fail (with huge fine) without one. But payout, again, needs to be huge... Enough to make folks actually want to get together to do these...

 

[Eldragon]

1. It shouldn't matter how you run a Mission. Wing or Not.

2. The mission payout should be X credits to deliver Y Tons.

3. You should be able to do any mission in multiple runs (solo). If you don't have the cargo capacity, do it in multiple runs.

4. You should be able to do any Mission as a Wing (dividing up the cargo and payout). You can decide if you want to split the payout with buddies or not. (How it should be split would be an interesting discussion).

5. If you want to encourage folks to do a Wing mission, make it a large capacity mission with a very timely delivery schedule. Make the payout huge, but require the mission to be run in X minutes or get a heavy fine. Something which could ONLY be accomplished in a Wing and with a payout that ACTUALLY made it worthwhile.

EDIT:

5a. ...or make it such a dangerous mission that you REQUIRE an escort and will surely fail (with huge fine) without one. But payout, again, needs to be huge... Enough to make folks actually want to get together to do these...

I agree on all points.

Same applies for wing Massacre missions. It shouldn't be 4 players killing 30 ships for 4 million credits each. It should be 4 players killing 300 ships for 40 million credits each.

 

[evanevery]

Well, you are probably correct on paper, but, that these cmdrs are earning far far more that I do, hauling as Gun Star mentioned-solo and coordinating several missions with several systems means that my fellow cmdrs are what...
enjoying earning Crs. All the power to them and funky cold madina. Let this be the new way to earn what others are doing in killing skimmers....(RP) at least they are doing some good for the hungry and infected (waste) galactic population.

Here's a tip. I've said this before. I'm not going to tell you where I'm working (I've found a couple of lucrative places) but I'll tell you how to find your own. You will earn way more than with these ridiculous wing missions but its going to take a bit of work to find your chosen system (part of the fun)....

- Look for relatively isolated systems at the edge of the bubble. A couple of systems with close neighbors but not much else. These systems will likely move a lot of missions between each other.
- These systems should have decent populations
- Extraction economy for cargo missions (unless you want to run pass missions - also good)

Data mine EDD or EDSM for your candidates. Now take a high jump range ship (not necessarily your "work" ship) and fly around and check out the missions boards in each. See what they offer. Be sure to check both Transport Missions and Passenger Missions. If you see a lot of either moving between a very few select nearby systems then you should run a few. If you find a lot of missions moving back and forth you might want to bring in your "work" ship so you can rep up with all the factions and see what the potential payouts are!

 

[ZeroAi]

I tried a wing missions with friends.

What a socialistic nonsense. Thats all what i can say.

I am taking mission for example 2 mln cr. I need to for examle transport 1000 tonnes of crap.

And now two folks are joining us, and we both need to transport 1000 tonnes. Me 500 and folks 500.
1000 tonnes are transported.

So why the hell our income is multiplied not divided? Each of us should earn at least 1/3 of reward NOT ENTIRE REWARD.

Mission profit should be divided, If someone will transprot 1000 tones alone then he should earn all, IF someone will get a friends, he should earn half, because he will spend a half of time on it.

If someone will kill strong enemy alone, then he should get entire reward. If he not got gut and is unable, then he should wing-up then split reward.

Dear FDev. Please imagine something. You are hiring a developer. His salary is 7000 EUR for write simple application.
He did application but told you a two friends helped him and YOU need to pay 21000 EUR instead of 7000, because he did a winged project

have fun.

First, let me say while I love the concept of Wing Missions, the payouts are too low so we stopped doing them and moved onto other things already

That said, you make a very good point. 1000 Tons of cargo is 1000 tons, and it should pay X number of credits when delivered no matter how many wing members fly the mission. if it's 10 mill for 1, then it should be 5 mill each for two who deliver equal amounts.

PS - I do very much appreciate FDev adding Transport wing missions, I just see doing them as a way to make less credits in the same time, which sadly is not a good thing.

 

[evanevery]

...Grouping up and doing a bunch of wing missions will pay far more per hour than solo...

No, not even close. Do the math. In the example I provided earlier, I can make 20-30 mil in the exact same solo run where 4 cmdrs would each get 14 mil (with full payout). That still favors solo missions 2:1 even with full payouts to everyone in a 4-person wing.

 

[galahad2069]

I can't say anything of cargo wing missions because I never did one (and most probably never will unless a gun is held against my head), but I did quite a few 'kill pirate lord' wing missions and I can assure you that those are still a complete bugfest if you do them as intended (i.e. as part of a wing, not in solo). Strange things are going on like you cannot jump into a wingmate's wing signal, one of the wingmates cannot hand in the completed mission, an already finished mission reactivates and you have to kill the baddie again, and so forth.

And you people are complaining about having been paid too much?
I really envy your problems.