Modes Will 3.0 Increase, decrease or have no effect on Open population?

[jasonbarron]

I am widely known as Cmdr Mohrgan. It would be hilarious to be remembered on your impotent effort to police against cheats. Well, other people's cheats that is. Yours are obviously excused.

This statement, along with several others you've made, would make sense if you would explain to us how it was cheating.

All I saw when I was there was the perfect confluence of events and circumstances combine to make an unusually lucrative situation that I certainly didn't have to "game" or "cheat" to profit from for a couple days.

I had to game the system a HELL of a lot more a year and a half ago trying to find cargo materials like Modular Terminals to unlock engineers.

The truth of the matter is that the entire game revolves around mode scrumming and relogging to refresh the mission board, and if 100 people claim they don't or haven't I'm to point out 99 liars. I'm not sure why you guys are ticked, but I'm absolutely confident that it's not REALLY because you think anyone"cheated"

 

[jasonbarron]

It's comments like this that kept me completely (though proverbially) speechless for several hours. How can anyone think that making enough to buy an Anaconda every 15 minutes was working as intended? How can anyone defend what was obviously exploiting a broken game mechanic as anything but cheating?

Did they think Frontier suddenly decided to channel Oprah Winfrey? "You get an Anaconda! You get an Anaconda! Everybody gets an Anaconda!"

And of course, just like Sothis and all the other credit exploits, Frontier has decided to do nothing about this, beyond fixing the broken mechanic.

Who gets an Anaconda is the least meaningful form of ED progression that I can think of. Why are so many of you stuck on the idea that this is what the money in any given fortune is being used for?

 

[Jockey79]

Well AFAIK I dont see any reason for you to be on the list but if you want, what's your cmdr name?

Jockey

Not sure why I didn't have the 79, I normally have the 79 in games, but I didn't add it here.

And yay, I'll be on the list
Do you get to add reasons? Can mine include "The Wall of Information" as part fo the reason lol
Feel free to include "Smug", "Know it all" anything along those lines - go nuts, have fun.

Who gets an Anaconda is the least meaningful form of ED progression that I can think of. Why are so many of you stuck on the idea that this is what the money in any given fortune is being used for?

I'm more annoyed at those who now have these things, their first reaction is to go blow up people who missed out and are still stuck in Sidewinders, Adders etc....
(If the posts on Reddit and FB are to be believed, and chances are, they are)

Weird how when these things happen, we never hear of the Fuel Rats getting loads of new members etc....

 

[Mouse]

Mission max limit is 20 not 6.



Again, what cheats are you accusing me with?

I'm not talking about the max # of missions you can have... but I have NEVER seen the same type blatantly listed over and over. Even if I had a full combat ship I would see maybe 4 or 5 and another 3 or so that I wasn't able to do because I didn't have the right rank or relations, etc.

To have a plethora of the same mission available would make me suspect. It is like a bank ATM spitting out extra money when you make a withdraw. Some people would justify that they did nothing wrong by taking the cash, they did what they would normally do, it was the machine that malfunctioned and gave them extra funds.



I also think it is funny that you feel I am "accusing you" of cheating.. please show me where I did.. or as the old adage goes. "If you throw a rock into a pack of wild dogs, the one you hit will always holler. If you aren't guilty why scream? Or in this case accuse someone of accusing you of something.

It's comments like this that kept me completely (though proverbially) speechless for several hours. How can anyone think that making enough to buy an Anaconda every 15 minutes was working as intended? How can anyone defend what was obviously exploiting a broken game mechanic as anything but cheating?

Did they think Frontier suddenly decided to channel Oprah Winfrey? "You get an Anaconda! You get an Anaconda! Everybody gets an Anaconda!"

And of course, just like Sothis and all the other credit exploits, Frontier has decided to do nothing about this, beyond fixing the broken mechanic.

This....




plus extra Rep for "You get an Anaconda!"

 

[Darkfyre99]

Who gets an Anaconda is the least meaningful form of ED progression that I can think of. Why are so many of you stuck on the idea that this is what the money in any given fortune is being used for?

The Anaconda per quarter hour was just another way of saying 600 million credits per hour. Would you prefer I had measured it in plasma accelerators per minute instead? Palladium per second?

The point is that one particular game mechanic was so obviously broken, it boggles the imagination how anyone could possibly not see it as cheating.

 

[jasonbarron]

The Anaconda per quarter hour was just another way of saying 600 million credits per hour. Would you prefer I had measured it in plasma accelerators per minute instead? Palladium per second?

The point is that one particular game mechanic was so obviously broken, it boggles the imagination how anyone could possibly not see it as cheating.

I would prefer, if anything, that you get down off your high horse. Also, 600 million an hour is a miracle of exaggeration. As to the last statement: why don't you ask Paige why she didn't see fit to remove participant rewards then?

 

[Jockey79]

I would prefer, if anything, that you get down off your high horse.

Why?

When someone didn't do anything wrong, they have a right to feel annoyed at those who did and got away with it.
And I'm quite fond of the expression "Call a spade, a spade" - so in relation to Elite, "Call a cheat, a cheat".

Don't want to be called a cheat, then don't cheat.

Also, 600 million an hour is a miracle of exaggeration. As to the last statement: why don't you ask Paige why she didn't see fit to remove participant rewards then?

anything over around 50 Million / hour is suspect and I'm being generous with that figure.
People were getting 100 - 350 Million per hour. Even Stevie Wonder could see that was not supposed to be happening.

As for why FDev didn't take the credits back, if 90s numbers are anywhere near the ball park of those took part.
Editing 30,000 accounts (I stress, if that number is right) isn't exactly an easy task. And if the money has already been spent, then its doing individual rollbacks of the accounts.

So not able or too lazy - take your pick.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

I'm not talking about the max # of missions you can have... but I have NEVER seen the same type blatantly listed over and over. Even if I had a full combat ship I would see maybe 4 or 5 and another 3 or so that I wasn't able to do because I didn't have the right rank or relations, etc.

To have a plethora of the same mission available would make me suspect. It is like a bank ATM spitting out extra money when you make a withdraw. Some people would justify that they did nothing wrong by taking the cash, they did what they would normally do, it was the machine that malfunctioned and gave them extra funds.



I also think it is funny that you feel I am "accusing you" of cheating.. please show me where I did.. or as the old adage goes. "If you throw a rock into a pack of wild dogs, the one you hit will always holler. If you aren't guilty why scream? Or in this case accuse someone of accusing you of something.




This....




plus extra Rep for "You get an Anaconda!"

There were countless other missions on the board, it wasnt full of skimmer missions only. The only thing made this easy is that all the missions were directing you to the same planetary base. And if you are aligned with the factions the payouts were around 5mil per 12 skimmers.
Which part in any if this is an exploit or a cheat?

 

[jasonbarron]

Why?

When someone didn't do anything wrong, they have a right to feel annoyed at those who did and got away with it.
And I'm quite fond of the expression "Call a spade, a spade" - so in relation to Elite, "Call a cheat, a cheat".

Don't want to be called a cheat, then don't cheat.



anything over around 50 Million / hour is suspect and I'm being generous with that figure.
People were getting 100 - 350 Million per hour. Even Stevie Wonder could see that was not supposed to be happening.

As for why FDev didn't take the credits back, if 90s numbers are anywhere near the ball park of those took part.
Editing 30,000 accounts (I stress, if that number is right) isn't exactly an easy task. And if the money has already been spent, then its doing individual rollbacks of the accounts.

So not able or too lazy - take your pick.

Wow, you sound pretty intense and upset. Willing to call me and thirty thousand other players (not to mention literally everyone who's ever run biowaste out of Sothis!) cheaters when Fdev won't even do that is pretty over the top.

For a guy who couldn't be levered into open with a crowbar you sure seem overly concerned about an issue that has no effect on you. Actually, I'm starting to wonder if your faux outrage stems from the fact that you weren't smart enough to get in on the action yourself

 

[jasonbarron]

There were countless other missions on the board, it wasnt full of skimmer missions only. The only thing made this easy is that all the missions were directing you to the same planetary base. And if you are aligned with the factions the payouts were around 5mil per 12 skimmers.
Which part in any if this is an exploit or a cheat?

Haven't you been keeping up with Jockey? "It just is!"

 

[Mouse]

There were countless other missions on the board, it wasnt full of skimmer missions only. The only thing made this easy is that all the missions were directing you to the same planetary base. And if you are aligned with the factions the payouts were around 5mil per 12 skimmers.
Which part in any if this is an exploit or a cheat?

read Jockey's reply above

Haven't you been keeping up with Jockey? "It just is!"

Funny as that isn't what Jockey said.. but hey... if you can't deal with the logic... make up him saying something.

 

[jasonbarron]

read Jockey's reply above




Funny as that isn't what Jockey said.. but hey... if you can't deal with the logic... make up him saying something.

No, not making up anything so much as interpreting what he's been trying to pass off

 

[Jockey79]

No, not making up anything so much as interpreting what he's been trying to pass off

You mean ignoring where I explained why it is cheating, so you don't have to face up to being a cheat.

What I don't get is, if you're so willing to ignore common decency to play the game properly and walk away from exploits / cheats / broken features.
Then why do you even care what I or anyone else thinks of you?

So a few forums folks have a low opinion of you now, whoopee do.
It's not as if you'll suddenly feel guilty and delete your character to earn you stuff honestly is it.

Or is it because you know I'll be referencing this thread every time you (or others) want to push your open only agenda as a reason some of us don't want to play open?
After all, you did get an "unfair advantage" in open of near limitless re-buys with your 350 Mill / Hr

 

[jasonbarron]

You mean ignoring where I explained why it is cheating, so you don't have to face up to being a cheat.

What I don't get is, if you're so willing to ignore common decency to play the game properly and walk away from exploits / cheats / broken features.
Then why do you even care what I or anyone else thinks of you?

So a few forums folks have a low opinion of you now, whoopee do.
It's not as if you'll suddenly feel guilty and delete your character to earn you stuff honestly is it.

Or is it because you know I'll be referencing this thread every time you (or others) want to push your open only agenda as a reason some of us don't want to play open?
After all, you did get an "unfair advantage" in open of near limitless re-buys with your 350 Mill / Hr

Wait, what? Have I somehow given you the false impression that your well established low opinion of me somehow bothers me? That's pretty funny given the fact that I look at receiving your hate (as uninformed/unimaginative as it is) as the forum equivalent to fuel scooping at a particularly tasty star. Knowing that I drive a certain subset of players up the wall with my wry observations, lightning wit, savage humor and devilish good looks is one of my favorite aspects of the forum

 

[Stigbob]

Cash exploits are just like clogging, people do one to make money and do the other to avoid losing money.

Equally lame, no real difference.

 

[Jockey79]

Wait, what? Have I somehow given you the false impression that your well established low opinion of me somehow bothers me? That's pretty funny given the fact that I look at receiving your hate (as uninformed/unimaginative as it is) as the forum equivalent to fuel scooping at a particularly tasty star. Knowing that I drive a certain subset of players up the wall with my wry observations, lightning wit, savage humor and devilish good looks is one of my favorite aspects of the forum

Oh I don't hate anyone.

I pity cheaters and griefers that refuse to see what they are.
I have a laugh with those who are honest over their actions.

You reaction like so many others has been great, seeing you tell Dark to get off their "high horse".
I found this just as funny when I was told it on the Firefall forums when their cheaters got caught out and the game patched.
They whined just as much as folks here have. I told them they were lucky they didn't get banned and blame, high horse comment from the salty.

Also found using the word "cheater" on Reddit gets you down voted into oblivion as well.

I now have plenty of ammo for next project, a new wall to build; Reasons to Remove Open.

1) Screen grabs of people openly admitting to cheating, videos of it, comments anout doing more of it and hiding it better.
2) Videos of prolific griefing / new player ganking - complete with comments of cheaters using the cash to grief.
3) Frontiers lack of action regarding exploits / cheats leaving open unbalanced and unfair towards players who are honest, forcing them out of open.

Yes the new project will be glorious.
So thanks to all who've provided everything I need for it

 

[jasonbarron]

Oh I don't hate anyone.

I pity cheaters and griefers that refuse to see what they are.
I have a laugh with those who are honest over their actions.

You reaction like so many others has been great, seeing you tell Dark to get off their "high horse".
I found this just as funny when I was told it on the Firefall forums when their cheaters got caught out and the game patched.
They whined just as much as folks here have. I told them they were lucky they didn't get banned and blame, high horse comment from the salty.

Also found using the word "cheater" on Reddit gets you down voted into oblivion as well.

I now have plenty of ammo for next project, a new wall to build; Reasons to Remove Open.

1) Screen grabs of people openly admitting to cheating, videos of it, comments anout doing more of it and hiding it better.
2) Videos of prolific griefing / new player ganking - complete with comments of cheaters using the cash to grief.
3) Frontiers lack of action regarding exploits / cheats leaving open unbalanced and unfair towards players who are honest, forcing them out of open.

Yes the new project will be glorious.
So thanks to all who've provided everything I need for it

That's all quite interesting. I'm still of the suspicion you're just twerked because you missed out. I wish you all the best with your wall.

 

[Darkfyre99]

You really don't get it, do you?

One of the reasons I play multi-player games, is because I like playing against other players. Its also why I play primarily in Open. I know I can never compete with some players when it comes to pure play time, so I try to compete in other ways. Unfortunately, when players cheat, as about 5% of the currently active player base did, if what I've read is accurate, it taints the whole Open experience, as well as the game in general.

This player in a FDL interdicts me, and I'm in a playful mood, despite being in an unarmed mission runner. Now, despite being in a ship that IMO indicates they should know what they're doing, I manage to completely dominate them at the "I'm in your Six" game. It seems obvious, at least to me, that if we had been in equal ships, I would've utterly destroyed him. Now, am I just that good a pilot, or did that player cheat their way into that ship, and are so bad at this game that even I can dominate them? (Hint: it's the latter)

On the flip side, I find myself trying to oust a Federation faction that another player has chosen to support, and based on system traffic reports, is roughly as about as active as I am. Despite my best efforts, I find that I'm losing ground when it comes to BGS manipulation. Now, is that player just better than me, or did they cheat their way into billions, and are just spamming donation missions by the score?

 

[Jockey79]

That's all quite interesting. I'm still of the suspicion you're just twerked because you missed out. I wish you all the best with your wall.

Missed out?

LOL.

You really are making things up as you go.
I avoid all these bugs, on purpose.

Found out about the skimmer bug on Saturday, so I played with my new Rift in Dead & Buried most of the weekend.
Seen Payday 2 has a VR Beta, so thought I'd try that until Elite was fixed, though got side tracked with Robo Recall.
(Dead & Buried plus Robo Recall are free with Oculus Touch as it turned out, so woot for me )

I know it's hard to understand, but some people like to play honestly in multiplayer games.
And we expect those we play with to also do the same. Otherwise there is no point in playing multiplayer is there.

Now if you want to whinge at Frontier to add decent payouts to the game or have those super high paying CGs a couple of times a month, then great. Count me in.

 

[[VR] scipio_77]

Wow, you sound pretty intense and upset. Willing to call me and thirty thousand other players (not to mention literally everyone who's ever run biowaste out of Sothis!) cheaters when Fdev won't even do that is pretty over the top.

For a guy who couldn't be levered into open with a crowbar you sure seem overly concerned about an issue that has no effect on you. Actually, I'm starting to wonder if your faux outrage stems from the fact that you weren't smart enough to get in on the action yourself

I was part of the team on a multiplayer-game back in the day and was part of the team handling players. We differentiated cheating into bug abuse and feature abuse. The skimmer exploit would have been a cheating of what we called feature abuse. "An obvious non-intended feature that rewards the player which he then proceeds to use repeatedly for benefit". And no, we didn't care if people claimed they were to stupid or ignorant to understand that it was non-intended unless they were fresh players.

The "has no effect on you" argument is really old and abused. It's not fun to see cheaters buy the top vessels after 3 hours of abusing a reward that was obviously way over the top. The goal of buying the top ships is tarnished, who cares about achievements or playing the game when you can just wait for the next feature to crop out. And I'm not playing to achieve something anymore, I'm just playing catchup to everyone who got it outside of the indended game mechanics.

These days though games don't wield the banhammer for these types of offenses, because they don't want to lose the business. Which is sad and is probably also why they get to proliferate and go unnoticed for so long. Cheaters know they get away with it, and probably they just run around thinking they're playing the game like everyone else... because essentially their behavior is condoned by designers. I was lucky enough to be a part of a game where we would punish. Didn't stop all the cheating, but we probably had a lot more feedback on active features. For an offense like this we would probably have nuked all gains plus a significant portion of other assets on the active account. And I can tell you right now it was good fun to catch the abusers too.

And rewards elsewhere in the game being too low is another debate entirely. A game design needing adjustments doesn't mean glitches designers never intended should be just left as is.