Beyond did literally nothing to help the grind.

[Electric Kite]

RNG mat grind is crap.

Scanning wakes us crap.

Shooting rocks is laughably awful.

RNG upgrades is bad.

I'd say those constitute problems.

Outside of this precious little safe space echo chamber, this game and it's design are laughing stocks. There's a reason for that.

Wrong.

I would say those constitute OPINIONS.


Which you are absolutley entitled to.

What youre not entitled to is trying to pawn them off as facts.

Thats the only "laughably awful" thing here.

Theres only one "safe space echo chamber" and it resides in the space inside your head.

 

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

RNG mat grind is crap.

Scanning wakes us crap.

Shooting rocks is laughably awful.

RNG upgrades is bad.

I'd say those constitute problems.

Outside of this precious little safe space echo chamber, this game and it's design are laughing stocks. There's a reason for that.

And fighting is the only true fun thing, and why? it is dynamic, it is no purely random, it is not purely static. But all the other tasks fall into one of both.

 

[lovely lovely]

Yes, fleet owners should indeed expect to spend a fair amount of time if they want to fully upgrade their entire fleet in the new system.

Expecting otherwise would be, quite frankly, a ridiculous expectation.

Additionally, if you didn't have God-roll G5's (but had solid rolls) pre-3.0, then you will likely surpass what you had with the third G5 roll in the new system. Not the tenth.

If you did have those rolls, then you will likely surpass those on the fifth roll in a lot of cases. Again, not the tenth.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, it is quite likely that people who already had fleet-deep investments in Engineering are not the intended primary benefactors in the new system.

If I am right, then that distinction would belong to new Commanders, and tenured Commanders who previously did not Engineer much, if at all.

Riôt

Hear what you're saying however most people I bet have lots of ships and don't want to be left behind.
Also as they've grandfathered G5 once before who's to say it wont be done again? Wouldn't want to be stuck 6-7 rolls short of G5 max if/when that happens again - think of all the salt!

It's sold as a good thing, it is in some respects, however it's a lot worse for the most. The grind has increased a lot.

 

[Electric Kite]

Hear what you're saying however most people I bet have lots of ships and don't want to be left behind.
Also as they've grandfathered G5 once before who's to say it wont be done again? Wouldn't want to be stuck 6-7 rolls short of G5 max if/when that happens again - think of all the salt!

It's sold as a good thing, it is in some respects, however it's a lot worse for the most. The grind has increased a lot.

Im willing to bet that the most vocally "er meh gerd the grind" posts are coming from PVP players. And this is in turn a subset of a larger group of pvp players (lets call them the main group) who dont have a huge fleet of ships that they want to engineer to the MAX for pvp.In short- i beleive most people, the majority, are not hardcore pvp players with 5 ships that need G5s.


My point is..i believe this is NOT as big an issue as these froums suggests (of which represent less than 5% of the player base according to a mod post a while back, no source but im sure they can confirm again) so this is a very, very Niche issue.

The fact is..(and this is an actual fact, not my opinion) and this applies for everyone as we have ALL been there, before you could spend days, literall DAYS looking for that one material you needed for a roll of a dice that was not even sure to make things better. That was awfull. Now - you can trade the mat u have for the one you need..and it WILL make things better.

Anyone saying this is not a better system is, in my humble opinion, (tounge slightly in cheek so please people dont get too offended) an X god roll harvester who is butt hurt that not having a job is no longer a distinct advantage in this game and is forcing them to reconsider their own existence.

But hey...thats just my opinion. Carry on...

 

[Red Anders]

I had a pretty good run finding Proto Heat Radiators in Gliese 9029 yesterday (Boom State, pop 3.7 billion) – the HGE rate seemed to be as high as 1 in 4, with a 50% chance of Proto Heat Radiators or Imperial Sheilding. I ended up with around 27 within an hour or so. What are you looking for specifically?

Proto light alloys. I just didn't get a single HGE spawning in 105 minutes of gameplay, USSs were spawning just fine, just no HGEs at all. Never had anything even close to that long without even one. Cheers for the reply, as long as they aren't actually bugged out of the game it's obviously just an incredible run of bad luck with the RNG.

If you think being able to swap materials for the ones you actually need at material traders is "LITERALLY NOTHING" then im sorry, but you have an issue using your brain.

Yeah, you need to try reading the thread. In fact even fully reading the first two lines of the first post would be a start.

 

[Audaxxx]

I'm really not enjoying having to re-engineer my PVP ships with this system. I spent enough time sat in supercruise the first time around and now it seems I'm doing it all over again! Engineering the HRP's and Boosters is a serious drag and I'll definitely not be converting my whole fleet unless something changes with the trader rates or materials availability.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Yes, fleet owners should indeed expect to spend a fair amount of time if they want to fully upgrade their entire fleet in the new system.

Expecting otherwise would be, quite frankly, a ridiculous expectation.

Additionally, if you didn't have God-roll G5's (but had solid rolls) pre-3.0, then you will likely surpass what you had with the third G5 roll in the new system. Not the tenth.

If you did have those rolls, then you will likely surpass those on the fifth roll in a lot of cases. Again, not the tenth.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, it is quite likely that people who already had fleet-deep investments in Engineering are not the intended primary benefactors in the new system.

If I am right, then that distinction would belong to new Commanders, and tenured Commanders who previously did not Engineer much, if at all.

Riôt

I can't say that I feel encouraged to get into engineering even with the new system. I know it from the 2.1 release and it was awful. Insert all the complaints here. Apart from the mechanics I've always criticised the amount of buffs engineers provide. I've always criticised that people have to put up to engineered NPCs without a choice.
Not to mention the imbalance it brought to the MP environment.
Not to mention I'd have to grind mats in addition to credits in addition to what I genuinely PLAY the game for. The whole thing just deters from the activities I could do before engineers and that was role-playing my thing and achieving little goals with other players.
I just see a mountain of busywork, that - once climbed - won't really make the game better - on the contrary. And once they permeate more and more engineered NPCs into missions and spawns it'll feel like you really need to engineer to play the game with a reasonable setup. I just don't see the point - it's moving the goalposts to prolong some player retention, but that is, I guess, a two sided edge - I just feel deterred by the extra amount of busywork for no gain - it's just stats shifted and numbers inflated instead of variety.

 

[Electric Kite]

I'm really not enjoying having to re-engineer my PVP ships with this system. I spent enough time sat in supercruise the first time around and now it seems I'm doing it all over again! Engineering the HRP's and Boosters is a serious drag and I'll definitely not be converting my whole fleet unless something changes with the trader rates or materials availability.

I must agree that the boosters have been the hardest part as i have 7 of the things. But look, this is the nature of the beast. Things will change and not everyone is gonna like it. It is a pain having to do it all over again but you gotta admit that being able to trade the materials is handy.

Anyway, i have a tip, you might know this already. BUT say you have to get TIN for example, so you select tin and they say "ok what do you want to swap to get TIN?". So you have a look and lets say in this case, you have not enough of any current alternate mats to swap for TIN. OK. Deselect TIN. NOW select the material that you DONT have enough of that you want to swap for TIN. Lets call it MAT X. It asks now "what do you want to swap to get MAT X? " Chances are, you DO actually have some other materials that you can swap for MAT X. Call them MAT Y.

So, get Mat Y, use it to get MAT X, THEN swap for TIN.

AND if you dont have MAT Y either , do the same process so you get a "MAT Z" to swap in order to get "MAT Y" - you can keep doing this further and further down the chain all the way to grade ones to get what you need.

In this respect EVERY MATERIAL is usefull. There is zero waste. What ive started doing is any time i kill a big ship, if it drops loot, i limpet it all up and i feel good about it because i know it will be usefull at some point. And dare i say it..it even feels satisfying.

If you knew this already, perhaps someone else can benifit from reading it.

o7

 

[Winterwalker]

I STILL say, what some people call grind I call gameplay; Making my way in the ED galaxy, as a career. Armchair developing is not a substitute, for accepting the galaxy for what it is, a place where not everything is within every individual's control.

 

[[VR] scipio_77]

I kinda like the mat element.

Why? Because it's one of the few things in Elite you can combine with other activities. And I think that's something they should do more. From that perspective it's balanced quite fairly, you tend to get a good selection of mats for your "level".

My perspective is from a recently returned player, so Beyond engineering is my first meeting with engineering. I also don't have the top ships yet. I can see it be a bit more grating if you have all the top gear and only need the engineering.

 

[Muetdhiver]

I STILL say, what some people call grind I call gameplay; Making my way in the ED galaxy, as a career. Armchair developing is not a substitute, for accepting the galaxy for what it is, a place where not everything is within every individual's control.

So... RNJesus HGEs are good gameplay/design now?

Just wow.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

So... RNJesus HGEs are good gameplay/design now?

Just wow.

He never said it was good gameplay/design.

 

[Blackcompany]

I kinda like the mat element.

Why? Because it's one of the few things in Elite you can combine with other activities. And I think that's something they should do more. From that perspective it's balanced quite fairly, you tend to get a good selection of mats for your "level".

My perspective is from a recently returned player, so Beyond engineering is my first meeting with engineering. I also don't have the top ships yet. I can see it be a bit more grating if you have all the top gear and only need the engineering.

It would be much better if certain mats weren't locked behind one or two specific activities.

With some mats looked behind the rock.shooting tech demo that fdev call.prospecting, I will never ever see those mats. I find that activity so boring it turns me off to even playing at all no burns me out. In mere hours.

Likewise, I am not ever going to murder civilian ships to get mats. I honestly don't know how anyone thought that was a good idea. It's not.

Mats need to be available without compromising the "play your way" mantra underlying Elite. But they aren't, and that is a huge problem.

 

[Electric Kite]

He never said it was good gameplay/design.

Dude 1: Im a vegetarian
Dude 2: So what youre saying is all Meat eaters should die?

This is the world we live in man.
Depressing.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Dude 1: Im a vegetarian
Dude 2: So what youre saying is all Meat eaters should die?

This is the world we live in man.
Depressing.

Yep.

 

[Red Anders]

I must agree that the boosters have been the hardest part as i have 7 of the things. But look, this is the nature of the beast. Things will change and not everyone is gonna like it. It is a pain having to do it all over again but you gotta admit that being able to trade the materials is handy.

Anyway, i have a tip, you might know this already. BUT say you have to get TIN for example, so you select tin and they say "ok what do you want to swap it for?". So you have a look and lets say in this case, you have not enough of any current alternate mats to swap for TIN. OK. Deselect TIN. NOW select the material that you DONT have enough of that you want to swap for TIN. Lets call it MAT X. Chances are, you DO actually have some other materials that you can swap for MAT X. Call them MAT Y.

So, get Mat Y, use it to get MAT X, THEN swap for TIN.

You can also keep doing this further and further down the chain all the way to grade ones to get what you need.

Doesthis make sense? Its kind of hard to explain but let me know if you get it.

I think anybody with a functioning brain cell can work out how trading works. The problem is that the ratios are set so high that it's only really feasible to trade down.

Trading down is very effective. For trading up, no matter how you slice it you would need to trade 36 level 3 mats for a single unit of level 5. Doesn't matter if you trade six grade 3 mats for a single unit of G4 and then trade six of them for a grade 5, it's 36 units of grade 3 overall.

If you happen to have a load of one kind of level 4 mat and it's in the right 'queue' to trade directly up to the level 5 mat you need without crossing types, then it can work.

If you don't already have them then it's useless as a grind/RNG reducer because many grade 4 materials are as much of a pain to obtain as G5s, being dependent on multiple layers of RNG in that you first need to get the right USS type to spawn and then hope for the right material spawns because unlike G5 materials, the grade 4s don't tend to be exclusive to a specific system type and state - it's basically a bran tub. Sometimes you'll get lucky, other times you won't but you can''t influence it in any way.

As soon as you're into trading from grade three materials upwards, you're needing 12 full drops of that material in order to get a single unit of the material you need. Considering that maxing grade 5 mods is taking me an average of 10 rolls, that would be 360 units of grade 3 materials to obtain the necessary 10 units of grade 5. That's 120 full drops of the grade 3 material lol. Sorry but hitting 120 spawns of a different material is not reducing anything.

Go below grade 3 and the overall trade up numbers become so funny that I'm not even going to bother repeating them.

 

[Muetdhiver]

He never said it was good gameplay/design.

Right I over reacted. Still what he's essentially saying is that this is how it is and we should let it go.

Which I very much disagree with. Crap design should be called upon.

 

[BDelacroix]

Dude 1: Im a vegetarian
Dude 2: So what youre saying is all Meat eaters should die?

This is the world we live in man.
Depressing.

Someone has figured out the secret. Get him out of here before it spreads.

 

[Electric Kite]

Someone has figured out the secret. Get him out of here before it spreads.

So what youre saying is I have Herpes?

 

[Eymerich]

OP.
I think FD haven't acknowledged there is a problem with ENG, cos there isn't one. In fact as I said on another post, ENG has never been easier.

Bring 31 ships to any engeneer for every modules bestowed upon them just to remove the legacy and you ll see the problem. ...