Cash Cow's. Gold Rushes. Easy mode for the new? Bitterness for the old? Or a pointless argument?

[Marklar_]

Personally, I don't really care much if others are making hundreds of millions of credits an hour farming the latest "exploit" or whatever you want to call it. I don't do it myself, but that's a choice.

It does, however, bother me that these "exploits" keep cropping up in every patch. I remember the good old days, when mission rewards were pathetic and you had to grind rare trades to get into a medium ship. People complained, and were right to complain, because missions were just pointless then. But ever since FD decided to buff mission rewards these gold mines keep popping up to the point where there's no real career path anymore, just run a few missions and buy an Annie.

So if FD really wants to do something about credit exploits, how about figuring out how to not put them in the game in the first place? This has been going on for years.

 

[CMDR Redcrest]

I've had 2billion for ages. I now have just under 5billion total assets. 23 ships (three of which are iCouriers).
I didn't do the VolyBoom thing. Poop hauling from Pratchett's Disc, Ceos/Sothis, bulk pax missions yes.
Do I still play the game? Hell yes. It's my most played game of all time.
I'll be playing as long as the game's going.
I've done the new Guardian stuff (awesome despite the bug). Got the new Guardian modules. Very enjoyable experience unlocking that stuff.
I do what I feel like doing.
I have a trade Cutter and a PVE/Multicrew Corvette. I have a Conda that can defend itself and jump far enough to jump around and explore Thargoid/Guardian sites. I love flying the Dolphin for a few pax missions. I like the Viper IV, the Keelback. My favourite ships are the iCourier and Chieftain.
The iCourier with the Guardian weapons and power plant is a BEAST.
Just because I have loads of CR does not make me bored with the game.
There's my tuppence worth.

 

[Leo Sagan]

Move them from being bugs in the BGS or mission system to being actual game mechanics.

Smart. FD will probably never do it then

 

[[VR] scipio_77]

Alright, here is a reason why players don't like other players making insane amounts of credits: the economy and price balancing in game.

With new ships and even the fleet carrier set to come out soon. And the average wallet of players going up and up because of get rich quick exploits (which is what they are, not intended, not taken into account when designing the game) the prices of those new assets will align with the average of all players, not just the ones playing the game as intended. So multi billion price tags may pop up for stuff like motherships. Making it unattainable by anyone but thee hardcorest of players and the crazy rich people who broke the economy and caused those prices to begin with.

So yeah it might be hypothetical but it's not based on unreasonable asumptions.

Making money in the game has never been easier (not counting exploits obviously) and it gets easier with every patch, yet people keep complaining that they can't upgrade ships every two mission. What would be the point ? The pace of progression has already been strongly undermined. Back when the game came out, your first million was a great achievement. Now it's just a small stepping stone towards the Anaconda bought in less than a week of regular play.

If I were a designer I would make squadrons have their own accounts which you would have to play up, and make the carrier come out of that.

Not that I am one, but I have worked with game design in a multiplayer environment (albeit on smaller projects). You tend to avoid making large content that can be cleared on day one, you save that for smaller stuff.

 

[Hellakitty]

I just spent 1.1 billion of my Volyboom money buying and outfitting a Corvette.

 

[nanite2000]

If cash is so irrelevant to the game, then why do people get so upset when FDev remove cash exploits?

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

no argument on the forums is pointless (except hotel california). its something to do on those long 250000 plus SC journeys to the Xth star in the system.

 

[RizenDoctor]

.. Back when the game came out, your first million was a great achievement. Now it's just a small stepping stone towards the Anaconda bought in less than a week of regular play.

I wish I could get an Anaconda that fast. I've been playing on ED on console since 3302 and have went from ship to ship. lol. Haven't been able to get pretty high on credit balances, waiting for community goal to change in the coming days to hopefully have a bounty hunting one. I'm always bounty hunting, which explains my lack in credits. lmao.

 

[Red Martian]

I've noticed in my time playing elite, I'm still new, not even hit 1000 hours yet. That there are some "passionate" ambassadors of what they deem unfair play. They lobby faster than any politician, have more weight than an entire political party and cry "unfair Miss!" faster than Jimmy from my first year at school.

So I'll keep asking the question. Why do credits matter to gameplay & FD? The type of player that wants instant cash will just leave. Thanks for your purchase. The player that understands there is more will remain, regardless of the cash injection. Cash will not unlock engineers, cash will not get you a Corvette or a Cutter, cash wont get you Exploration/Combat rank. So why, PLEASE why do the players that fight so hard for the removal of it by lobbying the forums at Frontier get listened to?

When I first started I made 600mil from a "cash cow". It didn't end my game, it started it. A game that I felt alone I could not play. 99% of you will never have seen or heard of me. That's because I have about 10 commanders on my in game friends list. So fair to say I'm not a community player. I spend countless hours just wombling around getting nowhere. But once I got my first "BIG" ship, that's when I was in. That's when the cost of modules seemed even possible to afford! Then there's the rest of the game to play!

Just let the ones that want cash have it, even pop in a cheeky gold rush in once in a while. How can it possibly hurt?

o7

Because some people clearly see Elite: Dangerous not as a game, but as a job. It's work. It's like if you start with an employer making $10 an hour, and after two years are making $15 an hour, you're going to get snippy with the guy who starts at $13 and is making $15 inside of six months. It doesn't matter how it happened, only that it happened without that person having to go through the same grueling process. For them, you have to earn your status as a "real" player by grinding in mind numbing ways until you finally earn the "right" to have a better ship. Until then, you're just a newb who got lucky.

In short, those who engage in the established pecking order do not like people who jump the line.

For me, the day Elite: Dangerous becomes like work is the day I toss it in the bin, because there are already too many games that feel more like work than recreation.

 

[bitstorm]

Wow 2 pages in and already lots of attempts to demonize people with a different view.

How about, if the upcoming Crime and Punishment's balance system ultimately relies on dissuading people via hitting their credit balance.

Then having a boat load of "bored" billionaires or ultra-easy perma-gold rushes in the game clearly does affect me. And quite a lot of folk actually.

 

[signal11th]

Alright, here is a reason why players don't like other players making insane amounts of credits: the economy and price balancing in game.

With new ships and even the fleet carrier set to come out soon. And the average wallet of players going up and up because of get rich quick exploits (which is what they are, not intended, not taken into account when designing the game) the prices of those new assets will align with the average of all players, not just the ones playing the game as intended. So multi billion price tags may pop up for stuff like motherships. Making it unattainable by anyone but thee hardcorest of players and the crazy rich people who broke the economy and caused those prices to begin with.

So yeah it might be hypothetical but it's not based on unreasonable asumptions.

Making money in the game has never been easier (not counting exploits obviously) and it gets easier with every patch, yet people keep complaining that they can't upgrade ships every two mission. What would be the point ? The pace of progression has already been strongly undermined. Back when the game came out, your first million was a great achievement. Now it's just a small stepping stone towards the Anaconda bought in less than a week of regular play.

Can I ask "what economy"?

 

[John Xenir]

I think the outcry for any excessive credit-per-hour incomes is caused by credit earning being in too much focus.
And I don't mean that in a sense that people obsess about what others do with their credits etc.

I mean it in a sense that the game fails to engage players in other activities sufficiently enough to focus player's attention on doing things, making credit income secondary.
Instead, credit chase is the purpose of many people's endeavors, which in turn creates this need to regulate the income to some extent.

I can't see this problem go away unless the game turns around and stops walling off content through credit barriers, and turning that around is quite a hefty challenge considering what is actually causing the issue.

 

[Chrystoph]

Alright, here is a reason why players don't like other players making insane amounts of credits: the economy and price balancing in game.

With new ships and even the fleet carrier set to come out soon. And the average wallet of players going up and up because of get rich quick exploits (which is what they are, not intended, not taken into account when designing the game) the prices of those new assets will align with the average of all players, not just the ones playing the game as intended. So multi billion price tags may pop up for stuff like motherships. Making it unattainable by anyone but thee hardcorest of players and the crazy rich people who broke the economy and caused those prices to begin with.

So yeah it might be hypothetical but it's not based on unreasonable asumptions.

Making money in the game has never been easier (not counting exploits obviously) and it gets easier with every patch, yet people keep complaining that they can't upgrade ships every two mission. What would be the point ? The pace of progression has already been strongly undermined. Back when the game came out, your first million was a great achievement. Now it's just a small stepping stone towards the Anaconda bought in less than a week of regular play.

First off, it is not an exploit because it uses game mechanics that are commonly available, even if the outcome is unintended. An exploit produces an unfair advantage, and this was available to everyone.

In regard to it breaking the game, the economy has been broken from initial release. Your argument is founded in leveling logic, but the game doesn't use leveling to manage the content. As a result, you have Mostly Harmless AI running around in Anacondas. A player just coming into the game takes one look at that and thinks, I should be able to do that. When they figure out that the AI doesn't follow "the rules" in ship generation, the player goes looking to balance the situation.

The fact of the matter is that Elite: Dangerous uses a hash of gaming techniques in an attempt to control "progress" without following the development strategies those control methods are made for. Risk/reward doesn't exist in the game because the pay is dependent on your rank with the faction. Cash gates are in place, but the AI doesn't "level" with you, meaning that the gate doesn't offer a sense of achievement, only a sense of restriction. The "rank" locked ships are effectively cosmetic because they are not superior to normally available ships and the pirate AI gets them regularly. I could go on, but the I believe point is well established.

Added to all of that is the fact that many players don't engage in continuous money flow mechanics, explorers being the primary example. Once you get the ship you need to do what you want, you stop playing the money making game because you have literally left the economy for extended periods of time. To those players, the money needed to do what they enjoy is nothing more than a large gate.

One of the great stories from Distant Worlds 3302 was the Sidewinder that made it to Beagle Point before Engineering. That was done through the massive efforts of the community, otherwise it would not have been possible. Now, stop and think about that not as an incredible story in cooperation and determination, but in terms of technical capability. A starting player couldn't have done it, even with Jump Boosters, because the drive isn't capable. To that theoretical player, DW 3302 was an unavailable option.

Money is more than just a score.

 

[babelfisch]

Did it ever occur to you that Frontier isn't listening to some comitee but that these people just happen to agree with Frontier about the game they are trying to create? If you need free money to enjoy the game I suggest you get lost. If not I don't understand why you are lobbying against the people who point out clear exploits and bugs.

 

[Stealthie]

So I'll keep asking the question. Why do credits matter to gameplay & FD? The type of player that wants instant cash will just leave. Thanks for your purchase. The player that understands there is more will remain, regardless of the cash injection. Cash will not unlock engineers, cash will not get you a Corvette or a Cutter, cash wont get you Exploration/Combat rank. So why, PLEASE why do the players that fight so hard for the removal of it by lobbying the forums at Frontier get listened to?

The biggest obstacle in the way of an honest discussion is that people refuse to be honest about their positions.

You get people falling back on nonsense such as "It makes no difference to anybody else how many credits I have".
It's a multi-player game, ferchrisakes.
Of course it makes a bloody difference to other people how many credits you have.
It makes a difference in terms of everything from combat, trading and exploration to CGs and the BGS.

By all means, let's have the conversation about what's reasonable but don't try and avoid the conversation by saying "it doesn't matter" cos that's patently cobblers.

 

[signal11th]

The biggest obstacle in the way of an honest discussion is that people refuse to be honest about their positions.

You get people falling back on nonsense such as "It makes no difference to anybody else how many credits I have".
It's a multi-player game, ferchrisakes.
Of course it makes a bloody difference to other people how many credits you have.
It makes a difference in terms of everything from combat, trading and exploration to CGs and the BGS.

By all means, let's have the conversation about what's reasonable but don't try and avoid the conversation by saying "it doesn't matter" cos that's patently cobblers.

Whilst the economy is basically a place holder for "something" tm no it doesn't, then factor in people who play on private group and people of play in solo.

 

[Hellakitty]

You get people falling back on nonsense such as "It makes no difference to anybody else how many credits I have".
It's a multi-player game, ferchrisakes.
Of course it makes a bloody difference to other people how many credits you have.
It makes a difference in terms of everything from combat, trading and exploration to CGs and the BGS.

You're almost making me feel bad for being a serial goldrush chaser. :x

Although if credits could be transferred easily between players I'd be the perfect model of the bored billionaire altruist.

 

[zombieapocalypse]

I still think if FD actually incorporated these gold rushes into the game properly, it'll both make the galaxy feel more vibrant AND give people a short boost to earnings.

Move them from being bugs in the BGS or mission system to being actual game mechanics.

Or even incorporate them into CGs.

 

[sollisb]

You're almost making me feel bad for being a serial goldrush chaser. :x

Although if credits could be transferred easily between players I'd be the perfect model of the bored billionaire altruist.

It can be done... It's just not on youtube

 

[Stealthie]

Whilst the economy is basically a place holder for "something" tm no it doesn't, then factor in people who play on private group and people of play in solo.

Again, that doesn't really matter.

Regardless of what mode you play in, the advantages that come with credits will leave their mark on the galaxy that everybody shares.

Beyond that, suggesting credits should be restructured to suit people who aren't involved in a multiplayer mode, at the greater expense of those who are, is kind of narrow-minded and a bit selfish.