News Cleaning Hot Module Price Reduction

Will Flanagan

W
Hello Commanders,

A quick notice to just let you know that we’ve reduced the cost of cleaning hot modules down from 25% to 5%, so that the cost of cleaning these modules better matches the re-buy cost for the module.

Thank you for your understanding.
 

Riverside

Riverside
I guess this is following feedback from the live game, but this seems to be a drastic step. Given that it's easier to reduce it than increase it (in terms of player satisfaction) it will be difficult to justify putting it back up at a later date if 5% turns out to be too small a dis-incentive.

The 25% was in line with the remote bounty factors' charges, will all factor commission charges be reduced in-line with this change too?
 

Ian Doncaster

Ian Doncaster
Riverside said:
I guess this is following feedback from the live game, but this seems to be a drastic step.
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It is - but then, if the cleaning cost was anything significantly more than 5%, you could clean them cheaper than that anyway by putting the module in the cheapest possible ship that would fit it, then dying.
 

Riverside

Riverside
Ian Doncaster said:
It is - but then, if the cleaning cost was anything significantly more than 5%, you could clean them cheaper than that anyway by putting the module in the cheapest possible ship that would fit it, then dying.
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That seems like a loophole that should be closed regardless, and one that would remove the reason for this change. This seems like fixing a symptom rather than the cause imo.
 
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Ian Doncaster

Ian Doncaster
Riverside said:
That seems like a loophole that should be closed regardless, and one that would remove the reason for this change. This seems like fixing a symptom rather than the cause imo.
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If you hadn't stored the module in the first place, and just died in the wanted ship containing it, you would have paid the rebuy on that ship (plus the bounty, which except for very cheap ships or extended PvP murder campaigns will be relatively trivial by comparison) to clean the entire ship - and therefore the rebuy on that module to clean that module. Similarly, if you hadn't stored the module, and just gone to an IF and had the bounty cleared, you'd have just paid the size of the bounty to clean the module ... which would in most cases again be far less than even 5% of module cost.

Same with back in 1.0ish where ship repair costs got massively cut because anytime anyone got ship repairs over 5% of value they'd just self-destruct to get a fully repaired ship cheaper than paying for repairs. The ultimate cause is that rebuy is a very small fraction of the price of the ship, so costs greater than that are easy to bypass ... be careful what you ask for trying to get that fixed!
 

Riverside

Riverside
Ian Doncaster said:
If you hadn't stored the module in the first place, and just died in the wanted ship containing it, you would have paid the rebuy on that ship (plus the bounty, which except for very cheap ships or extended PvP murder campaigns will be relatively trivial by comparison) to clean the entire ship - and therefore the rebuy on that module to clean that module. Similarly, if you hadn't stored the module, and just gone to an IF and had the bounty cleared, you'd have just paid the size of the bounty to clean the module ... which would in most cases again be far less than even 5% of module cost.

Same with back in 1.0ish where ship repair costs got massively cut because anytime anyone got ship repairs over 5% of value they'd just self-destruct to get a fully repaired ship cheaper than paying for repairs. The ultimate cause is that rebuy is a very small fraction of the price of the ship, so costs greater than that are easy to bypass ... be careful what you ask for trying to get that fixed!
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I understand your explanation and I appreciate your taking the time to write it but this is just an inelegant way to fix a symptom, it just legitimises the loophole.

Fundamentally if the ship & modules have a bounty on them that bounty remains unless it's claimed. It may be cheaper to pay it off by jumping through a bunch of hoops but they still have to jump through those hoops. This change just makes it hassle free instead of having some hassle (but not enough).

How do we go from 'some hassle but not enough' to 'not really any hassle at all' and call that a problem solved? The solution should be to get back to 'quite a lot of hassle'.
 
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shkwav

shkwav
Thanks for this change, it was horrible before.

Any chance of cmds who got hit with this getting the money back (via support?). I moved military armour, a 7A shield and a 7A power-dist, off a hot Anaconda then moved them back again (just fiddling with load-outs) and was hit with several multi-million CR fees to clean them (about 15M CR total!). Didn't make a lot of sense as I got charged multiple times for moving the same module on and off!

Thanks,

Kevin
 

Deleted member 115407

D
shkwav said:
Thanks for this change, it was horrible before.

Any chance of cmds who got hit with this getting the money back (via support?). I moved military armour, a 7A shield and a 7A power-dist, off a hot Anaconda then moved them back again (just fiddling with load-outs) and was hit with several multi-million CR fees to clean them (about 15M CR total!). Didn't make a lot of sense as I got charged multiple times for moving the same module on and off!

Thanks,

Kevin
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Yeah, FD, he didn't do nuthin'.
 

aRJay

aRJay
shkwav said:
Thanks for this change, it was horrible before.

Any chance of cmds who got hit with this getting the money back (via support?). I moved military armour, a 7A shield and a 7A power-dist, off a hot Anaconda then moved them back again (just fiddling with load-outs) and was hit with several multi-million CR fees to clean them (about 15M CR total!). Didn't make a lot of sense as I got charged multiple times for moving the same module on and off!

Thanks,

Kevin
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Would you really expect a garage to change the engine in your car multiple times at your request and then charge you for only the first time, especially the sort of garage that works on "hot" cars?
 

shkwav

shkwav
aRJay said:
Would you really expect a garage to change the engine in your car multiple times at your request and then charge you for only the first time, especially the sort of garage that works on "hot" cars?
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Reinserting a part should not magically make it "hot" again, it's not a virus lol
 

Cmdr Ultra

Cmdr Ultra
Ian Doncaster said:
It is - but then, if the cleaning cost was anything significantly more than 5%, you could clean them cheaper than that anyway by putting the module in the cheapest possible ship that would fit it, then dying.
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Yeah but you can't put 7A or 8A Thrusters in a cheap ship.

5% seems too low. With the amount of engineering work I have put into some of my modules I would pay alot more % to get them back.
 
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Ziljan

Ziljan
Oh good they're removing consequences from the game again. I guess a nice killing spree is in order now?

Seriously, Frontier. Stop making things too inconsequential. The 25% fee was barely a mosquito bite, and 5% is pretty much ignorable. If you want to create a deterrent system, you are failing miserably.
 

Guyperson

Guyperson
The problem with module cleaning fees is that any plans for those modules approaching the rebuy cost of the ship will only prompt them to go get themselves "busted" to clean everything off at a lower rate.
It's like back when repairing a ship that was both heavily damaged and at 0% integrity in maintenance ended up costing almost 10% combined. Lots of unfortunate "accidents" and insurance claims as a result. Doubly so when it came to backers and premium beta testers, since those accounts have permanent insurance discounts that made paying even 5% on repairs a poor financial decision. I don't think the new module swapping mechanic takes those discounts into account either, in which case even 5% of a ship's value in fees will probably see criminal kickstarter backers scuttling their ships.
 

Ziljan

Ziljan
Will Flanagan said:
Hello Commanders,

A quick notice to just let you know that we’ve reduced the cost of cleaning hot modules down from 25% to 5%, so that the cost of cleaning these modules better matches the re-buy cost for the module.

Thank you for your understanding.
Click to expand...

Unnecessary and damaging change. Now carrying a bounty will have almost no impact on outfitting choice. And even worse switching hot modules to a new ship will be a new Exploit.
 

GroG79

G
I still have to pay 25% on a dirty module to get it cleaned
7A thrusters (51m cred) need 12.8m credits to clean. This is because of a 800 credits bounty.

Shame ED is so inconsistent. I likely bought the module for my beluga before the 25% -> 5% change happened.
 
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