No answers in latest live stream

[Tactical Tree]

Yes there are forum posts. We know what is going on and having a few missions types pulled is not the end of the world. It is a minor issue at worst.

Because not everybody agrees about gravity of situation?

And what kind of answer you are exactly looking for. In both cases FD posted good explanation why they take mission types out of rotation.

If you are asking rhetorical questions just to make devs rethink something or make completely different than it is - it's not gonna happen. So creating fake urgency won't cut it.

Majority of issues are player growing pains from having too lax crime and punishment, and having too easy to exploit game. Both things aren't gonna fly more in future.

It's under the news section of the forum.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/411857-Skimmer-Massacre-Mission-Temporary-Removal

What we know is : Missions are getting pulled and nerfed left and right because they offer too much Cr/h.
The questions regarding missions that are left unanswered are: How much Cr/h is acceptable? Why does it take so long to tweak the numbers on payouts? Why do missions STILL pay like biowaste so people flock to each and every "get rich quick" flavour of the month mission type? When are missions going to be more than fetch quests busywork that people despise in all MMO's?

These questions come up every time yet another mission type gets nerfed because it paid too much. AFAIK they were never answered.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

What we know is : Missions are getting pulled and nerfed left and right because they offer too much Cr/h.
The questions regarding missions that are left unanswered are: How much Cr/h is acceptable? Why does it take so long to tweak the numbers on payouts? Why do missions STILL pay like biowaste so people flock to each and every "get rich quick" flavour of the month mission type? When are missions going to be more than fetch quests busywork that people despise in all MMO's?

These questions come up every time yet another mission type gets nerfed because it paid too much. AFAIK they were never answered.

Missions are getting pulled because they are not working as intended by fdev. That is not a nerf.

 

[babelfisch]

What we know is : Missions are getting pulled and nerfed left and right because they offer too much Cr/h.
The questions regarding missions that are left unanswered are: How much Cr/h is acceptable? Why does it take so long to tweak the numbers on payouts? Why do missions STILL pay like biowaste so people flock to each and every "get rich quick" flavour of the month mission type? When are missions going to be more than fetch quests busywork that people despise in all MMO's?

These questions come up every time yet another mission type gets nerfed because it paid too much. AFAIK they were never answered.

You do realise that mining missions weren't removed because they pay too much credits per hour but because they provide their own requirements as reward?

 

[Komemiute]

You do realise that mining missions weren't removed because they pay too much credits per hour but because they provide their own requirements as reward?

Shhhh, he's upset, let him rant. It's pointless...

 

[CMDR Carbo]

This was obviously not the right stream to ask questions about the current state of the missions, as it was a themed stream and people have to prepare in advance for it.

Thus said, I'm not really a fan of these streams with Ed as a 'guardian', it reminds me of 80s kids shows where you craft a paper hat together.
I prefer the streams other developers do bi-weekly or monthly where a couple of devs sit on a couch together, discuss the state of the game, reveal future plans and suggest solutions and fixes.


And there is a need to discuss missions. They are responsible for most of the exploits or gold-rushes in the past three years, and it looks like Fdev can't get it right, because missions either earn you nothing or too much.

Mode switching is an integral part of the game and is here to stay.
That said, the fact that you can take on 20+ of the same mission to the very same target is just exploitable in itself.
It's clear if one missions pays too much compared to others, the fact that you can stack 20 of them breaks the balance completely.
And in some cases you can easily stack 20 missions without mode switching at all.

 

[Powderpanic]

Hi there!

First of all, sorry that you didn't enjoy last night's livestream. It was never intended to be, or advertised as, a livestream that was about any news announcements. We flag our news-based livestreams much further in advance, and we share details of them on social media, and on the forums. When there's news to be talked about on a stream, you'll know about it...

Last night's stream was about showcasing an interesting set of discoveries in the galaxy, highlighting something that we feel people may want to learn about or get involved in.
We like to showcase what our community is up to, and we enjoy bringing on developers to talk all about their work, and engage with the community... even if the main purpose, or mission, of the livestream isn't to specifically talk about bug fixing.

If you watch our announcement videos about new features, such as our FX announcements, or pre-beta previews, we make extra effort to let the developers fully explore ideas and answer questions. In these more casual livestreams (which last night's was absolutely intended to be), we are able to have a little bit more fun, and be more talkative and keep the conversation flowing. Again, to each their own, if you don't wish to watch our livestreams, that's fine... but please make sure you check the information that's supplied when we're promoting the streams, as this was never promoted as a fact-giving stream.

With regards to providing the community with information about how we're working to fix bugs, we have answered every thread as they've come up and explained exactly how or why we're dealing with specific issues here on the forums. Thank you for your patience as we work to make this the best game it possibly can be. It's also worth mentioning that on the QA forums, the QA team are diligent with replying and following up with bug reports and threads.

With regards to sharing new information, we do the following:
- Share any news on all of our social media channels
- Share any news on the forums as a feature-based TLDR, both after the livestreams and after the launch of the update itself
- Do livestreams where we showcase the new features as and when they're ready to showcase
- We run the focused feedback forum where we share our future ideas for features, and do our best to action any feedback from the players
- We respond to people in the forums as much as possible when the information is complete and readily available

Types of livestream shows that we do (regular engagement ALL OF WHICH INVOLVE DEVS - just because devs are there does not mean there will be news. They just like to engage with the community):
- CQC events (not news)
- Let's Plays on both our Twitch channel and Elite Dangerous YouTube (not news)
- Q&As when updates are incoming/shortly after updates with key devs (could be seen as news, or moreover updates on previous news)
- Pre-release livestreams showcasing new content... come just before announcements (news - the most news you can get)
- Discovery Scanner - looks behind the scenes at how Elite Dangerous is made (not news, but very interesting) we're planning more of these for the near future.
- Community-based livestreams showcasing community content such as Educating Ed and the missions with Canonn (not news) we're bringing these back in the near future
- 24 hour charity stream (not news)
- More (not news)

I absolutely love doing these streams, it's been a passion of mine ever since we started the community team here at Frontier. I also love the fact the developers take time our of their own personal schedules to appear on the streams. The community that come to chat and get involved are always wonderful and engaged - and we encourage more of this positive kind of thing.

Basically, in short... last night was in no way about sharing any new information, nor was it ever intended to be seen or promoted that way. It was about engaging with our community which we do on a regular basis. Just because developers were there, that doesn't mean the livestreams are focused on news.

Let me know if you have any queries or questions. Just like with regards to game development, we're always happy to take constructive feedback on-board about how we can be even more communicative than we already are.

Thanks,

Ed

Thanks Ed!

You are amazing! Keep up the heroic work!

 

[babelfisch]

This was obviously not the right stream to ask questions about the current state of the missions, as it was a themed stream and people have to prepare in advance for it.

Thus said, I'm not really a fan of these streams with Ed as a 'guardian', it reminds me of 80s kids shows where you craft a paper hat together.
I prefer the streams other developers do bi-weekly or monthly where a couple of devs sit on a couch together, discuss the state of the game, reveal future plans and suggest solutions and fixes.


And there is a need to discuss missions. They are responsible for most of the exploits or gold-rushes in the past three years, and it looks like Fdev can't get it right, because missions either earn you nothing or too much.

Mode switching is an integral part of the game and is here to stay.
That said, the fact that you can take on 20+ of the same mission to the very same target is just exploitable in itself.
It's clear if one missions pays too much compared to others, the fact that you can stack 20 of them breaks the balance completely.
And in some cases you can easily stack 20 missions without mode switching at all.

Mostly agreed!

I have to ask though, how much should a mission pay? How do you balance effort, time, difficulty and requirements? Should all missions pay 20 million or should there be differences? Should a mission from Sol to Alpha Centauri pay the same like a mission from Sol to Colonia? Because that's where most of the problems come from and I can't think off an easy fix apart from balancing them again and again and again.

 

[CMDR Carbo]

Mostly agreed!

I have to ask though, how much should a mission pay? How do you balance effort, time, difficulty and requirements? Should all missions pay 20 million or should there be differences? Should a mission from Sol to Alpha Centauri pay the same like a mission from Sol to Colonia? Because that's where most of the problems come from and I can't think off an easy fix apart from balancing them again and again and again.

Well, that's more for Fdev to decide, missions will still have to be balanced. But rewards could be safely increased, and a lot previous nerfs could be undone, IMO.
Personally I would say 20 million for a mission is too much. Maybe for a very difficult mission that takes some time to complete or a Hutton run.

Let's say we reduce the stacking of identical missions to 5.
You can now easily offer bulk passenger missions to Smeaton for 7-10 million, because the maximum people can get is 50 million per run, and they can board flip as much as they want, it won't ever change.

My point is, even if the balancing is off and the award is a bit to much (e.g. 15 million), since you can only stack 5 missions of the same kind, you will never be able to earn 200-300 million/h.

Edit: This system is also much more flexible.
Let's say, Fdev optimizes their mission server in the future, and can now offer twice as many missions on the mission board. With the above system, since identical missions are still limited, nothing will change.
If they just prevent board flipping, and double the amount of missions in the future, you're basically back to square one, because now people are able to stack 20 missions and the whole system is exploited again.

 

[GG7]

I watched the stream on the archive last night. I frankly don't see what all the screaming was about!

The content of the stream was precisely what was listed on the tin. If people in the chat want to ask irrelevant questions that have no relevance to the topic of the stream, then they should not be surprised if those questions are not answered.

The entitlement around here these days is so thick, you can cut it with a knife. I can only assume the bulk of it is coming from Noobs and other rookie players. I hope to god this cluelessness isn't coming from the ED veteran contingent.

That would really be embarrassing!

 

[DrNoesis]

This was obviously not the right stream to ask questions about the current state of the missions

Cant help but agree with this.

Last nights stream was a bunch of enthusiastic staffers who really wanted to show off a new thing for the benefit of those folks who hadnt gotten there yet themselves for whatever reason. They weren't there to perform a standard Dev Q&A and its unfair to criticise them for failing to perform a duty they never advertised or intended anyway.

Am kind of bothered by the fact that there are members of the community who feel it's ok to act and communicate with a community team in a way thats actually been legislated against for pretty much every other profession out there.

I really don't want to see the teams enthusiasm burn out because the sheer weight of negativity ground them down tbh. Put the questions to them in the right channels, and let them be excited to show us stuff in those places that they've clearly set up purely for being excited and showing us stuff - they need a place to do that to keep the momentum going and their interest and energy up for everything else.

 

[Red Anders]

Tell that to all those who logged in to the chat to ask questions.

One of the things I love about this game, apart from the game itself, is the way that any criticism of FDev brings out the white knights.

Get back on your horse and understand that people want explanations for the havoc that FDev have caused since 3.0 dropped.

Alas, another white knight.

But the point is that it wasn't an AMA stream, it was a stream about Thargoids. I'm no white knight but as a complaint, yours is a bit like someone going to see The Shape of Water and coming out of the cinema complaining that it was a bit short of epic space battles.

 

[Taimaru]

To Ed,

Thank you for your reply and the stream last night. I just want to say that I really enjoyed last night's stream and I am grateful that you and the developers do these kind of streams. The content you showed meant I postponed my original plans for ED last night and I instead went chasing this new mystery and had a lot of fun doing so. [smile] Please keep doing these streams as they are a lot of fun and they are also interesting.

To the OP,

I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the stream but as many have pointed out already the stream wasn't about news and it wasn't a QA session. This was clearly outlined in the forum post. If you feel that Frontier aren't giving out any news that's because there is no news, different from what we all know already, to give out. I'm also sure that if there was any new information to give out, Frontier would let us know as soon as possible. That's not me "white-knighting", but that is from observing past events.

 

[RagingxPenguin]

They don't generally answer most of us.. Unless you really stir the pot and they need do some fire fighting, or unless you happen to be in the favorites.

In fact. I should test piracy again and see if I find disappearing magic cargo. Never got a response to that.

 

[rp198419]

Hi there!

First of all, sorry that you didn't enjoy last night's livestream. It was never intended to be, or advertised as, a livestream that was about any news announcements. We flag our news-based livestreams much further in advance, and we share details of them on social media, and on the forums. When there's news to be talked about on a stream, you'll know about it...

Last night's stream was about showcasing an interesting set of discoveries in the galaxy, highlighting something that we feel people may want to learn about or get involved in.
We like to showcase what our community is up to, and we enjoy bringing on developers to talk all about their work, and engage with the community... even if the main purpose, or mission, of the livestream isn't to specifically talk about bug fixing.

If you watch our announcement videos about new features, such as our FX announcements, or pre-beta previews, we make extra effort to let the developers fully explore ideas and answer questions. In these more casual livestreams (which last night's was absolutely intended to be), we are able to have a little bit more fun, and be more talkative and keep the conversation flowing. Again, to each their own, if you don't wish to watch our livestreams, that's fine... but please make sure you check the information that's supplied when we're promoting the streams, as this was never promoted as a fact-giving stream.

With regards to providing the community with information about how we're working to fix bugs, we have answered every thread as they've come up and explained exactly how or why we're dealing with specific issues here on the forums. Thank you for your patience as we work to make this the best game it possibly can be. It's also worth mentioning that on the QA forums, the QA team are diligent with replying and following up with bug reports and threads.

With regards to sharing new information, we do the following:
- Share any news on all of our social media channels
- Share any news on the forums as a feature-based TLDR, both after the livestreams and after the launch of the update itself
- Do livestreams where we showcase the new features as and when they're ready to showcase
- We run the focused feedback forum where we share our future ideas for features, and do our best to action any feedback from the players
- We respond to people in the forums as much as possible when the information is complete and readily available

Types of livestream shows that we do (regular engagement ALL OF WHICH INVOLVE DEVS - just because devs are there does not mean there will be news. They just like to engage with the community):
- CQC events (not news)
- Let's Plays on both our Twitch channel and Elite Dangerous YouTube (not news)
- Q&As when updates are incoming/shortly after updates with key devs (could be seen as news, or moreover updates on previous news)
- Pre-release livestreams showcasing new content... come just before announcements (news - the most news you can get)
- Discovery Scanner - looks behind the scenes at how Elite Dangerous is made (not news, but very interesting) we're planning more of these for the near future.
- Community-based livestreams showcasing community content such as Educating Ed and the missions with Canonn (not news) we're bringing these back in the near future
- 24 hour charity stream (not news)
- More (not news)

I absolutely love doing these streams, it's been a passion of mine ever since we started the community team here at Frontier. I also love the fact the developers take time our of their own personal schedules to appear on the streams. The community that come to chat and get involved are always wonderful and engaged - and we encourage more of this positive kind of thing.

Basically, in short... last night was in no way about sharing any new information, nor was it ever intended to be seen or promoted that way. It was about engaging with our community which we do on a regular basis. Just because developers were there, that doesn't mean the livestreams are focused on news.

Let me know if you have any queries or questions. Just like with regards to game development, we're always happy to take constructive feedback on-board about how we can be even more communicative than we already are.

Thanks,

Ed

Thank you Ed for that explanation. I rarely watch FD live streams and did so following someone's suggestion. I had no idea such streams had a particular focus; nor apparently did the many other players asking what turned out to be 'inappropriate' questions.

Now that I know how they work and what their various intentions are, in future I shall endeavor not to misjudge the content.

 

[rp198419]

Thanks for being so civilized.

I also kinda apologize for my "savage" comment directed at OP earlier... (though I still can't help thinking he/she deserved it).

Thanks for the apology but under the circumstances you were not entirely wrong. Please see my response to Ed's post on page 7 of this thread.

 

[Rob At Work]

Dav is putting a brave face on things as far as I can tell.

We know he is being held against his will, and that they make him work until some ludicrous hour in the morning.

If you watch the latest live stream carefully, you will notice that he is blinking, we currently think it is morse code. We need some one to decipher it for us though, any help appreciated.

#freeDAV

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Completely missed that there even was a live stream...

Not that I get to watch them live - they always take place when I am at work, and our web filters block them, so I have to catch "dead streams" after the fact.
I am curious as to what was said, but I can't seem to find this anywhere.

A Sticky Thread linking to previous streams would be great.

 

[babelfisch]

Dav is putting a brave face on things as far as I can tell.

We know he is being held against his will, and that they make him work until some ludicrous hour in the morning.

If you watch the latest live stream carefully, you will notice that he is blinking, we currently think it is morse code. We need some one to decipher it for us though, any help appreciated.

#freeDAV

Dav is the server hamster.

 

[S3B4ST13N]

Stuff

Just something to ponder .. what if you gave different live streams different names? For example like .. last night's could be ED: Showcase, or a live stream intended give feedback on something new ED: Low Down, or a stream about Q+A/News sharing could be ED: High Wake.

 

[VR jefranklin18]

Just something to ponder .. what if you gave different live streams different names? For example like .. last night's could be ED: Showcase, or a live stream intended give feedback on something new ED: Low Down, or a stream about Q+A/News sharing could be ED: High Wake.

And talking about future plans could be ED: Not Saying