The internal contradiction of Elite Dangerous.

[Marcinguy]

The game was a completely different experience back when it released, that's for sure. I recently started from scratch on my PS4 and couldn't believe how quick I was in a DBX and a Vulture. With A rated modules to boot. Didn't even consider the Cobra at all and jumped straight to the DBX from the Sidewinder. I played a lot on PC before Horizons dropped and essentially quit right before that. Getting into a Cobra was a monumental feeling. A serious upgrade despite the fact that I couldn't even afford any good modules. I was flying with E rated garbage for a while, lol! It took a while to get that Cobra A rated doing the Ol' Rare Trades loop. These days I buy a ship and go straight to the A rated stuff.

After the Cobra I eventually I bought an Asp X and I just had my Cobra for bounty hunting and missions and the Asp X for exploration and trading. Just two ships. Not trying to say that the old way was better or anything, just that the experience has really changed, and the universe really feels a lot less dangerous than before.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

The game was a completely different experience back when it released, that's for sure. I recently started from scratch on my PS4 and couldn't believe how quick I was in a DBX and a Vulture. With A rated modules to boot. Didn't even consider the Cobra at all and jumped straight to the DBX from the Sidewinder. I played a lot on PC before Horizons dropped and essentially quit right before that. Getting into a Cobra was a monumental feeling. A serious upgrade despite the fact that I couldn't even afford any good modules. I was flying with E rated garbage for a while, lol! It took a while to get that Cobra A rated doing the Ol' Rare Trades loop. These days I buy a ship and go straight to the A rated stuff. Eventually I bought an Asp X and I just had my Cobra for bounty hunting and missions and the Asp X for exploration and trading. Just two ships. Not trying to say that the old way was better or anything, just that the experience has really changed, and the universe really feels a lot less dangerous than before.

I remember saving up to upgrade my sidewinder and eagle (had an eagle for free with the package). Took ages to upgrade those to a reasonable level.

 

[CMNDRMK]

I can understand that the game has had to adapt and re-balance to having much more players with the big bux than the small bux, but it seems to have done that with little regard to the experience of new/small bux players.

 

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

The issue is a very broken courve in progression in this game. lower ranked pilots should get less and higher ranked much more, to keeo the "grind" a bit even. But the old payouts were horrible if you ever wanna get a proper ship. Sadly better ships don't offer much of a better progression unless they are about a HUGE cargo space addition to the previous one.

 

[Marcinguy]

I remember saving up to upgrade my sidewinder and eagle (had an eagle for free with the package). Took ages to upgrade those to a reasonable level.

Yup, the good old days. I would run rares in the Cobra, sell my stuff, run a few missions or bounty hunt, and then head back onto the return leg of the rares loop. I remember flying into to Lave and the station came up green on my radar. Was so stoked that they considered me an ally, LOL.

 

[Muetdhiver]

Yup, the good old days. I would run rares in the Cobra, sell my stuff, run a few missions or bounty hunt, and then head back onto the return leg of the rares loop. I remember flying into to Lave and the station came up green on my radar. Was so stoked that they considered me an ally, LOL.

Good times ^^. Did pretty much the same with ASP back in the days. A specing the cobra was done 100% with mining.

But then there was the python and the vertical grind wall.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Good times ^^. Did pretty much the same with ASP back in the days. A specing the cobra was done 100% with mining.

But then there was the python and the vertical grind wall.

Taken me three years to get a python. But I never did grind for it. Now I have it I hardly ever fly it.

 

[Malbek]

Well I remember when the game was a few months old, I could compete in CZ with a basic Eagle or Cobra, nowadays trying to survive in one without a decently engineered ship and major awareness gets you to the rebuy screen before you know it. I feel bad for new players just wanting to have some solid combat experiences in the current version, I can't see how a legit noob could possibly survive in one for long. It's so easy to attract aggro from 4-5 ships at once, pummeling you with engineered plasma and popping SCB like popcorn.

I think there needs to be more grades of CZ, with commensurate rewards to their difficulty so new players don't miss out on the CZ fights which can be really fun especially in a wing.

 

[frostypaw]

Also if the best content is locked behind millions of credits that is just bad game design. There needs to be fun things to do in starter ships.

I picked this up on Xbox because it was on an offer. I have seen several commanders in noobie ships in my stellar neighbourhood. I wonder how long they will stick around if the start game is mostly a repetitive unchallenging grind to a multi million credit ship. The challenge of a grind, should not be the grind itself.

It's not though - the early game is great fun, there's very little content locked behind a grind.

However the big fans who do the videos and post here all the time are substantially people who've earned a bucketload, got the big ships etc and so new players see all that and assume they've got to rush to the same point to take part creating a sense of pressure that isn't really here.

Instead of taking their time and enjoying it they go into hardcore grind mode, aided by more experienced players encouraging them and providing ways to reduce the whole game down to it's mechanics and the fastest way to grind to the late game ships and status.

Just look at how people talk. Canyon racing HAS ALWAYS BEEN FUN - just because it's more fun in a top spec ultra-engineered racing iCourier doesn't mean it's not fun at the lower levels and doesn't mean it wasn't fun before engineering - but when players start the "Engineer it!" advice starts often before anyone even mentions the E-A grades. When I started to see people upset because their G5 engineered FSD didn't get great range and it turned out they'd G5'd an E-rated module it was time to take a step back and look at what had happened

The majority of us love this game and want new players to have a good experience - we should all be united in wanting the early game experience to be good and for new players to be able to survive and have fun right away with no grind barrier. Instead currently it feels like a large portion want to turn it into a grind-fest to the late game and FDev to spend their time working on things for people to do in big ships. It becomes a feedback-loop that will become destructive and ruin the early game experience that we all loved when we started before engineers, guardians, thargoids or the rest even existed.

 

[Muetdhiver]

Taken me three years to get a python. But I never did grind for it. Now I have it I hardly ever fly it.

Seems we like different things. The python is my favourite mining and piracy ship.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Seems we like different things. The python is my favourite mining and piracy ship.

I'm sure I will use it at some point. I can't play much at the moment due to having a course to do in the evenings after work, so when I get more time, I am sure I will be using it for CG's and station repair missions and if mining becomes interesting after 3.3 then I may look at some mining too.

 

[Catless Grin]

Yea getting the Cobra seemed like a real satisfying achievement. Not at all like that now.

LOL ya, one passenger mission that takes 5 minutes you can buy 15 cobras.

 

[the100thmonkey]

I don't get this idea that new players hop into an anaconda and somehow miss out the game.

It really depends on what's important to you -- what your content is.

Is the journey more important, or do you focus on the destination?

 

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

It's not though - the early game is great fun, there's very little content locked behind a grind.

However the big fans who do the videos and post here all the time are substantially people who've earned a bucketload, got the big ships etc and so new players see all that and assume they've got to rush to the same point to take part creating a sense of pressure that isn't really here.

Thats not the issue, what is the issue is that early there is some quick progression, and since the sidey is extremely limited new ships unlock new possibilities. Like proper battle outfits, minign and real trading. And then comes the moment where bigger ships do not add something new and the grind is huge. In fact bigger ships do the previous more efficient but still not change the entire gameplay. And I think it is that moment where we lose the most players. Because at that stage they have a HUGE grind in front of them that is nto fun, so a lot jump off the game with "I have seen enough and played enough for what was achievable in a proper time". Those people aren't unhappy at all with the game, but they just hit ther personal "effort" wall. And then there are people who go through hat big grind ending rather meaningless with: "well nothing reaally changed aside the size of my ship" Thos epeople also go and play different stuff because the game in it's core (Minign, Poperplay etc.) is too underdeveloped to offer true long term "enjoyment" that is not based on repetition. Yes some people are statisfied with doing the same thing over and over and this is fine and those are probably happy. But unfortuntely for FD this group of people is not big enough to sustain income for the game. And so they need to step up and grant better variety and dynamic challange to epople in the game. CS is the same basically all the time, bt never truly the same due to the way it works. But ED has only randomness as a true unifyign factor and yte what coems out of this randomness isn't entertaining I is still very repetitive. If I in my cutter get interdicted 4x in a row by a similar equipped FDL, I just wonder how many ships in this game just existed. Why is there no dynamic pricess makign sure I do nto get repetitive random events. Why arent there 3 Vipers, or 2 FGS or even 2 Sideys and an Anaconda and many many many other combinations? Exactly here in those events randomness adds dynamic, because I have to dynamically react to this entire different situation. But what we get is randomness of static events so they basically turn out the same by 99% of what happens. and this is the bad randomness. Where the other randomness descriped before would be a good randomness.

And at this poitn I have not spoken about other core gamplay features liek economy, minign, pirating and Poerplay and how they should more deepyl interact with each other. I just spoke about some single random interdiction gameplay feature.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

It really depends on what's important to you -- what your content is.

Is the journey more important, or do you focus on the destination?

Virtually every other game it is the journey. What would be the point of Tomb Raider if you could skip all the bit in the middle and jump straight to the end. Game over in five minute. Not that ED has an end, but I am sure you understand what I mean.

 

[frostypaw]

Is the journey more important, or do you focus on the destination?

That has a corollary - if you're focused on the destination are you ever going to be happy in a game with no distinct endpoint and no big celebratory sequences once you reach any particular point you've decided is your destination. You'll reach that one, the game will shrug at you and you'll need to find another - you'll be grinding and unhappy all the way to that destination then again the game will shrug at you and you'll need to find another and feel the same about it.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Thats not the issue, what is the issue is that early there is some quick progression, and sicne the sidey is extremely limited new ships unlock new possibilities. Like proper battle outfits, minign and real trading. And then comes the moment where bigger ships do not add something new and the grind is huge. In fact bigger ships do the previous more efficient but still not change the entire gameplay. And I think it is that moment where we lose the most players. Because at that stage they have a HUGE grind in front of them that is nto fun, so a lot jump off the game with "I have seen enough and played enough for what was achievable in a proper time". Those people aren't unhappy at all with the game, but they just hit ther personal "effort" wall. And then there are people who go through hat big grind ending rather meaningless with: "well nothing reaally changed aside the size of my ship" Thos epeople also go and play different stuff because the game in it's core (Minign, Poperplay etc.) is too underdeveloped to offer true long term "enjoyment" that is not based on repetition. Yes some people are statisfied with doing the same thing over and over and this is fine and those are probably happy. But unfortuntely for FD this group of people is not big enough to sustain income for the game. And so they need to step up and grant better variety and dynamic challange to epople in the game. CS is the same basically all the time, bt never truly the same due to the way it works. But ED has only randomness as a true unifyign factor and yte what coems out of this randomness isn't entertaining I is still very repetitive. If I in my cutter get interdicted 4x in a row by a similar equipped FDL, I just wonder how many ships in this game just existed. Why is there no dynamic pricess makign sure I do nto get repetitive random events. Why arent there 3 Vipers, or 2 FGS or even 2 Sideys and an Anaconda and many many many other combinations? Exactly here in those events randomness adds dynamic, because I have to dynamically react to this entire different situation. But what we get is randomness of static events so they basically turn out the same by 99% of what happens. and this is the bad randomness. Where the other randomness descriped before would be a good randomness.

And at this poitn I have not spoken about other core gamplay features liek economy, minign, pirating and Poerplay and how they should more deepyl interact with each other. I just spoke about some single random interdiction gameplay feature.

The grind is artificial though. People think they need an anaconda to play the game so they grind the best and nearest money making scheme to get one, when in reality all you need is a Cobra that will do virtually everything in the game to a pretty good standard.

In my opinion progression comes to an end at the Cobra/Viper mk4 ships. Anything after that is just personal choice with what you want to do in the game. Some don't go any further than the Cobra.

 

[frostypaw]

And I think it is that moment where we lose the most players.

<citation needed>

Thos epeople also go and play different stuff because the game in it's core (Minign, Poperplay etc.) is too underdeveloped to offer true long term "enjoyment" that is not based on repetition.

<citation needed>

With so many long term players here and player numbers higher than ever this all sounds like supposition and guessing. You might be right, but I don't believe there's any data to back this up and it doesn't match what I see happening.

 

[sb413197]

It's a bit backwards now - you get big ships fast but then discover how fun the small ships are, and end up flying them despite being able to own the big boys!

That's fine with me though. I love my courier...! I've also been in deep space in an Asp-X despite owning a full fleet of 20 G5 ships with another 5 billion in the bank.

It's fine. Just more access to the variety of game content.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

It's a bit backwards now - you get big ships fast but then discover how fun the small ships are, and end up flying them despite being able to own the big boys!

That's fine with me though. I love my courier...! I've also been in deep space in an Asp-X despite owning a full fleet of 20 G5 ships with another 5 billion in the bank.

It's fine. Just more access to the variety of game content.

There is no more access to the game content. If I only flew a Cobra I would have the same access as you.