The Star Citizen Thread v8

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MTBFritz

MTBFritz
Gregstrom said:
After looking at the patch notes, it’s hard to tell if they’ve added anything beyond some ships and missions (and one of those seems to break the game rather unpleasantly if I’m reading correctly).

Or have I misunderstood?
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Steph said:
I'm not a backer but I'm pleased for those who are - the Great Endeavour might be moving along slowly, but its another step along the way for the backers.
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I m with Gregstrom. While the fact that they are pushing 3.1 itself is a good sign and might lift backer spirits and confidence looking at what 3.1 actually entails is a crushing reality-check and makes me wonder if CiG is running on fumes only at the moment. The whole company seems to become more fragile the more time passes where less and less is expected and tiny mundane things are celebrated as milestones and "break-throughs". Current ATVs and media articles seem to focus on lowering community expectations so that CiGs subpar performance can be continued to be seen in a positive light.

Remember how 3.0 was anticipated as the "big one".
Remember how after a long delay and a crushing realization all hopes were shifted to 3.1
Remember the original roadmap for 3.1 which is actually hard to find these days as there seems to be a MYRIAD of news and announcements for the current downgraded version pushing the original 3.1 roadmap to page 20 of the google search
[video=youtube;bZzXZtCmOpo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZzXZtCmOpo[/video]

Now take a look at what 3.1 actually is today

Calling "keep up with development, thats old news" is a really weak defense when development seem to ever shift to a lesser, downgraded version instead of picking up steam and going full-bore anytime soon. I think its worth it to take a jog down memory lane from time to time to actually be able to evaluate the project properly and determine how far (or short) it has come in all these years.

Maybe new backers dont care as they wouldnt remember past promises but anybody who actually follows SC development and has been there for years going through all the iterations of the project....how can they NOT be crushed by its transformation into a shadow of its former self?

@Steph I admire your positive outlook to its current development. I m unable to share your opinion myself anymore but its good to see people who can state their thoughts like you do /cheers
 

Theodrid

Theodrid
MTBFritz said:
I m with Gregstrom. While the fact that they are pushing 3.1 itself is a good sign and might lift backer spirits and confidence looking at what 3.1 actually entails is a crushing reality-check and makes me wonder if CiG is running on fumes only at the moment. The whole company seems to become more fragile the more time passes where less and less is expected and tiny mundane things are celebrated as milestones and "break-throughs". Current ATVs and media articles seem to focus on lowering community expectations so that CiGs subpar performance can be continued to be seen in a positive light.

Remember how 3.0 was anticipated as the "big one".
Remember how after a long delay and a crushing realization all hopes were shifted to 3.1
Remember the original roadmap for 3.1 which is actually hard to find these days as there seems to be a MYRIAD of news and announcements for the current downgraded version pushing the original 3.1 roadmap to page 20 of the google search
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZzXZtCmOpo

Now take a look at what 3.1 actually is today

Calling "keep up with development, thats old news" is a really weak defense when development seem to ever shift to a lesser, downgraded version instead of picking up steam and going full-bore anytime soon. I think its worth it to take a jog down memory lane from time to time to actually be able to evaluate the project properly and determine how far (or short) it has come in all these years.

Maybe new backers dont care as they wouldnt remember past promises but anybody who actually follows SC development and has been there for years going through all the iterations of the project....how can they NOT be crushed by its transformation into a shadow of its former self?

@Steph I admire your positive outlook to its current development. I m unable to share your opinion myself anymore but its good to see people who can state their thoughts like you do /cheers
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'Helmet Polish' is so apt for a CR game :D
 

Steph

Steph
MTBFritz said:
@Steph I admire your positive outlook to its current development. I m unable to share your opinion myself anymore but its good to see people who can state their thoughts like you do /cheers
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I think that I have said before that my sympathies are with the developers and the backers - if this gives the backers some new toys then that's good to hear. Is it what was initially proposed though? Clearly not even close.

Is it perhaps an attempt to lower expectations? Quite possibly - and probably something that should have been done long ago it seems.

If it was ED then there would be howls of annoyance and probably a great deal of what I believe people currently call "salt".

The long-suffering SC backers will probably have to wait a little longer for a "meaningful patch" but something is better than the nothing that they received pretty much all of last year I suppose.
 

frostypaw

frostypaw
Steph said:
If it was ED then there would be howls of annoyance and probably a great deal of what I believe people currently call "salt".
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Looking at how the ED community has responded to some recent bug fixes and balancing issues it's staggering that the SC community put up with what they do.

I can only imagine near nuclear meltdown occurring once that kind of population moves to SC - and I'm almost 100% sure they will. It's part of why I'm really hopeful SC do get going soon so they can absorb some of the heat and show that many of the issues that current ED players are so dismissive about, claiming that it's easy and FD just incompetent, will also be issues there so the disgruntled can see that other companies don't find it any easier.
 

MTBFritz

MTBFritz
frostypaw said:
Looking at how the ED community has responded to some recent bug fixes and balancing issues it's staggering that the SC community put up with what they do.

I can only imagine near nuclear meltdown occurring once that kind of population moves to SC - and I'm almost 100% sure they will. It's part of why I'm really hopeful SC do get going soon so they can absorb some of the heat and show that many of the issues that current ED players are so dismissive about, claiming that it's easy and FD just incompetent, will also be issues there so the disgruntled can see that other companies don't find it any easier.
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Comparing both communities at large makes quite clear that Star Citizen backers....well the remaining ones at least.....absolutely NEED a different kind of mettle/mindset then typical gamers do. Take any released game and the surrounding fall-out about the smallest things. Those people would blow a casket if they had to put up with what CiG does. Thats the reason why some people have started to evaluate the mentality of SC backers (or better....loyalists) compared to other communities. After a long period of waiting and giving the benefit of the doubt a lot of people see Star Citizen as a scam or at best a failure so if there is a group of people who not only keep defending it but more importingly keep it afloat with monthly payments despite all the disappointments and delays/walk-backs on promises THEY must be the reason.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
frostypaw said:
Looking at how the ED community has responded to some recent bug fixes and balancing issues it's staggering that the SC community put up with what they do.

I can only imagine near nuclear meltdown occurring once that kind of population moves to SC - and I'm almost 100% sure they will. It's part of why I'm really hopeful SC do get going soon so they can absorb some of the heat and show that many of the issues that current ED players are so dismissive about, claiming that it's easy and FD just incompetent, will also be issues there so the disgruntled can see that other companies don't find it any easier.
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I'm looking forward to seeing how easily it is to gain ships in SC.

Either way, there will be rage from one quarter or another. Either the game will be a "grind" or players who bought ships will be annoyed that within weeks or months the game is full of people flying Idrises.
 

Zetta

Zetta
You quite often see people on the subreddit saying it should take months, if not years, for non-paying backers to earn what they have spent hundreds of dollars on (while simultaneoulsy arguing that you get no advantage from buying ships :rolleyes:)
 
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frostypaw

frostypaw
Zetta said:
You quite often see people on the subreddit saying it should take months, if not years, for non-paying backers to earn what they have spent hundreds of dollars on (while simultaneoulsy arguing that you get no advantage from buying ships :rolleyes:)
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You see that's just not going to cut it! Don't they have any appreciation for the fact that people have jobs and families! Disgraceful!

Should be able to grind to top end ships in a week or two and experience all the content in a couple of months apparently.

That attitude meeting the entitlement of people who spent thousands will be like matter-antimatter
 

MTBFritz

MTBFritz
Zetta said:
You quite often see people on the subreddit saying it should take months, if not years, for non-paying backers to earn what they have spent hundreds of dollars on (while simultaneoulsy arguing that you get no advantage from buying ships :rolleyes:)
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Quite understandable too but isnt this just another bomb-shell waiting to blow up once the time comes?

On the one hand you have the ultras who are invested with hundreds if not thousands of dollars in order to get their hands on all those shiny ships early (most of which wont be available upon release, CiG already admitted to that). They will either applaud long grinding times because they already have access to everything/most or they ll get angry if they get matched or even surpassed by absolute newbs picking Star Citizen up on release leaving them in the dust.
On the other hand you have a large pool of potential new blood sitting on their cash thinking about picking this up on release. They wont agree with long grinding times or pay-walls to have equal footing/chances against all the heavy spenders. I mean we are not talking about a measly subscription fee or micro-transaktions here. Star Citizens cash amounts are on a whole different level.

But realistically every company's primary concern should be to make as much money as possible. There are 2 ways to achieve this. Quantity or quality.

Quantity means designing and releasing the game in a state that makes it appealing to the biggest possible demographic segment. Other companies have gone through this in the past (take Blizzard for example) and it always lead to a clash between the "old-timers" who went through the original hardship and effort and the "carebears" or "plebs" who want everything without the hard work. Blizzard has time and time again proven that they ll side with the money which is the majority of people. And so WoW has been dumped down in difficulty and challenge to a degree that it has gone through completely different game iterations. Nowadays the game is known to be beginner-friendly and the ingame community is highly divided. Despite all the threats and outcries Blizzard has always gone through with its "dumping down" and thus secured its position and success at large. If Blizzard would ve stayed with their "elite" and what they want its highly doubtful the game would have its current status among MMOs. This course of action of attitude is mostly the reason that you have newcomers even today a decade and more after release because people have equal chances to enjoy the content of the game. CCP also has followed this route making the game much easier for newcomers which also raised anger among its old-timers.

Regarding pure income values this approach would be preferable but even if you cater to the majority you HAVE TO produce at least average quality or people will fall out again quickly. As Star Citizen is planned to be a subscription-based game after launch (is this still valid?) it needs to capture players long-term. I dont see that happening with a large% of content missing and the quality it currently shows.

Or you go quality which means you offer your service or product to a select small group of people at highly inflated prices which dont reflect the products real/material value countered by an adjusted level of service or entitlement. In terms of gameplay this could mean that the star citizen whales decide over the course of the game at large determining the playing field for everybody. No doubt this will lead to envy and outright hate directed against the elite and CiG itself but if those select few are willing to dig deep many companies out there show that they are prepared to endure the ire of many tho this mostly holds true for F2P mobile games these days (think korean style).

Observing Star Citizens development I m not sure they have the freedom of choice here. I cannot see CiG being able to deliver promised quality at all. If game development in general has one message its that its development cycle promises more then the actual game can deliver upon release. The more you hype your community the bigger disappointment is when the time comes. Star Citizen is surrounded by truly impossible expectations already and its not even in beta....probably nowhere near release anytime soon (haha at the people who think a 2018 release is probable).

I cannot imagine CiG being so stupid to make a statement in this matter. It can only lose by siding with one faction now. Its probably better to leave everybody with his/her own expectations and trying to cash in as much as possible before the time comes for a "hard decision".
 

Dooguk

D
Your puny machines are not ready for the fidelity that is Star Citizen.....

Posted by Beet Wagon on the SA forum.....

ODqbCqF.png


One more patch to this monstrosity will kill it completely, they're almost there... just... one... more... patch...
 
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TenakaFurey

T
Cmdr Eagleboy said:
I think one or two major features got delayed already so...it might be it and to be frank they need base going before they can add new exciting stuff.

I will +1 anyone going trough some interesting bits and pieces, have no time even for ED atm.
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3.1 has already seen some major and needed content/features delayed.

Which is fine....3.0 was shambolic. Above all else, 3.1 needs to deliver a strong performance upgrade. Yes...more content is needed but better, more consistent performance for more players is more important right now. Content doesn't matter so much if the game is unplayable
 

Asp Explorer

Asp Explorer
You just don't understand RAM utilization.

A 970 is a little on the low side though - it doesn't have enough pipelines to really ramp up Fidels Per Seconds, and it's not compatible with the latest Punch Above Weight API.
 

frostypaw

frostypaw
Dooguk said:
Your puny machines are not ready for the fidelity that is Star Citizen.....

Posted by Beet Wagon on the SA forum.....

https://i.imgur.com/ODqbCqF.png

One more patch to this monstrosity will kill it completely, they're almost there... just... one... more... patch...
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I actually wonder if this is why we don't see more of Stanton.

Slightly over half of me believes they've finished more than we see but haven't worked out how to make anything function without loading everything into memory straight away rendering it utterly unplayable.

Watching that ATV guy I'm not sure they've got a grip on what they need to do to fix that at all and the way they're talking about it seems so about-face I think they're screwed.
 

ianw

I
So reading about this from various sources it seems like everything that CR wants - maximum fiedelity - everything has to be broken down into separate things the game has to track - etc. etc. is the exact opposite of what needs to be done in order to make the thing run properly and acheive the networking capabilities required to make all that stuff work for 1000s of players interacting in real time.

It's really not going to happen is it? I mean they can fart around at the edges tarting up cosmetic stuff and introducing new broken features - but they really are cattle trucked at this point aren't they?

Unless CR suddenly stops being CR and listens to his people who know the stuff he doesn't...
 

Barking_Mad

Barking_Mad
ianw said:
So reading about this from various sources it seems like everything that CR wants - maximum fiedelity - everything has to be broken down into separate things the game has to track - etc. etc. is the exact opposite of what needs to be done in order to make the thing run properly and acheive the networking capabilities required to make all that stuff work for 1000s of players interacting in real time.

It's really not going to happen is it? I mean they can fart around at the edges tarting up cosmetic stuff and introducing new broken features - but they really are cattle trucked at this point aren't they?

Unless CR suddenly stops being CR and listens to his people who know the stuff he doesn't...
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I suspect it's potentially worse than that. I don't think they have or can attract the experience to work out exactly how to do what needs to be done. This ties in three-fold. One, its been said that they have plenty of greenhorns working on low entry level pay. Two they had a large exodus of experience which they've never replaced. Three, well look at the jobs on offer. https://cloudimperiumgames.com/jobs
 
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Zetta

Zetta

Asp Explorer

Asp Explorer
Many of the listed positions have been there over a year. Even junior openings in elementary systems support - those usually go like hotcakes to young firstimers desperate to get an actual paying IT gig on their CV.

In this case though - they want 2+ years past experience for a skivvy to drive CIG kit around in their own car. Absolute lulzbucketry!
 

Jonny Shiloh

Jonny Shiloh
Barking_Mad said:
https://cloudimperiumgames.com/jobs
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From one of the "I love working at CIG because..." encomia/encomiums on that page...

I love telling people that we’re working on something kinda big. Chris approached me to work on CIG’s PR in the summer of 2012. Having worked before with the king of space sims back during the Wing Commander days, how could I say “no?” This is an incredibly ambitious project and there’s one guy who knows how to assemble a world class team to make it all happen. Chris Roberts. Star Citizen is not just a game, but a game changer. It’s fun, it’s ground breaking, it’s exhilarating. Who wouldn’t want to step into that every day at the office?
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Here's a bit of fun - guess what job function the quoted person holds at CIG?

Yep that's right - Head of PR. Who'd have thought?
 

McGlashan

McGlashan
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