Merge Solo/Open, allow toggle PvP with time limit

[HairyMonkey]

This has probably been discussed already, but if it's raised again, it may be reviewed again (especially with the recent C&P changes/edge cases from Beyond chapter 1.)

Current Problems
I think that the following things, and the current approach to these things, conflict with other:
1) Gankers (whether engineered or not) play in Open, forcing many CMDRs into Solo/Private group as they don't want to waste time/credits on rebuys. This is not a criticism of PvP/ganking. If you enjoy it, go for it, it's what PvP is for!
2) Too many people in Solo / not enough people in Open.
3) High complexity of the C&P changes, and their impact on scanner missions etc

The notoriety/ATR/rebuy cost changes to C&P were mostly (I think) designed/implemented to protect those players getting ganked by overpowered ships by having harsher consequences for the 'criminal'. But seems like there are so many complexities/edge cases that I'm sure are unintentional (at least that's the impression I get from the webcasts, forums, Lave Radio etc), one stray bullet = bounty etc.

World of Warcraft's model:
1) You can still join a pure PvP realm and so gank/get ganked whenever, wherever - your choice. PvP cannot be disabled here.
2) You can join a PvE realm but you can toggle PvP on or off at will. It turns on instantly, but when you click disable, it takes 5 minutes to turn off and cannot be turned off while in combat.
3) You can join a Battleground from any realm type for pure PvP mayhem (roughly equivalent to CQC)

Why not do similar for ED?
Replace Open/Solo universes with a single Universe that allows CMDRs to enable/disable PvP, following the same restrictions as above.
For those that really really love PvP, retain a pure PvP universe where it's not possible to disable PvP. It would be interesting to see what the population split would be.

Benefits:
1) Instant higher population of CMDRs in the same Universe.
2) Protection for those CMDRs not wishing to do PvP but still wanting the immersion of a better population. If they fancy some PvP, turn the flag on, knowing that they're vulnerable for at least 5 minutes.
3) Enables simplification of the complex Crime and Punishment system as those that disable PvP are both safe from gankers and from stray shots (on other CMDRs at least).

Problems:
1) it breaks immersion a little, as you effectively have a 'magic' shield against CMDRs. But that said, so does logging off.
2) It would probably be real PITA for FDev to implement...
3) There would certainly be unintended consequences

TL;DR

Single Universe and make PvP toggle-able with time limits

 

[HairyMonkey]

Plus are you personally gonna refund all the XBOX (and PS4 too?) Players who paid for the game and now cannot play it because they don't have a XBOX live subscription (required for multiplayer).(

No, don't be daft. However, I see your point - I don't understand the console licensing/live subscription model, surely some net connection is required even for Solo - BGS/Galnet updates etc?

That aside, you could still implement the toggleable PvP and retain the Solo mode. It would diminish it's impact somewhat but there'd still be a gain in terms of population/gank protection for the majority (probably?) population, as well as the potential for reduction of C&P complexity.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

PvP, ganking, or whatever isn't the reason I avoid open, it's the stability.

Solo runs smoothest for me, forcing the god awful P2P networking on all CMDRs would be catastrophic for the portion of the player base with sub par internet or equipment.

 

[Eidolon]

No.
Thanks for your time.

 

[KillaALF]

No, thanks. In general, I have absolutely no desire to meet other people in my free time, off- or online. BTW, there is only one universe anyway, and we all influence it regardless of the mode or platform we play in/on.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

That aside, you could still implement the toggleable PvP and retain the Solo mode.

This isn't WoW, though - there's no clear mechanical separation between a PvP action and a PvE action.

Not able to shoot someone to do damage? Ram them.
Not able to ram them to do damage? Ram them into something else.
Not able to do that because collisions don't transfer momentum either? Sit a couple of Sidewinders in the docking slot of a CG station (on rotation to avoid the loitering timer) and lock everyone else in or out because they can no longer slowly shove you aside.

And some actions could be either dependent on context. You're in a T-6 mining an asteroid. I fly up in my Conda and launch a swarm of collector limpets ... am I doing some "pre-emptive piracy" (PvP), or are we both working on the same mining CG (PvE) and have agreed on Discord that it doesn't matter which of us picks up the fragments so long as they get handed in?

In a PvE private group like Mobius or Fleetcomm, none of this matters too much - the group is managed by a real person, so if someone tries to get away with banned forms of PvP on a technicality, they get kicked anyway. For an automated mode, that's not possible, and the game (computing in general!) is not good enough at context to get it right every time.

(Another less-noticed thing: you can only take high-res screenshots in Solo and Private Group, because the lag they induce can be a major problem in a shared instance. If you get rid of those modes, you get rid of high-res screenshots ... if you only keep Solo, then you can't take high-res screenshots with other players in.)

The notoriety/ATR/rebuy cost changes to C&P were mostly (I think) designed/implemented to protect those players getting ganked by overpowered ships by having harsher consequences for the 'criminal'.

Not particularly - other than a higher bounty for murdering commanders rather than NPCs, it's otherwise just as effective at stopping players going on murder-sprees versus clean NPCs.

There are also some nice changes on the "criminal missions" side to make them more worthwhile and interesting to do.

It took out some loopholes that were being exploited by PvP and PvE criminals alike, and it makes certain sorts of PvP criminal activity (the stereotypical blowing up Sidewinders in a Cutter) rather more expensive, but it's not that important.

1) Instant higher population of CMDRs in the same Universe.

Probably not by enough to make a noticeable difference. In most systems, there's no-one else about in any of the three modes. In busy systems, there's already enough people about in Open that they don't fit into a single instance already. So you'd only notice it in the marginal systems between the two ... which might just lead to more complaints about landing pads being blocked at outposts

 

[drakhyr]

As others have alluded to, there is more to solo than just avoiding other players. I think the most significant is the network traffic - solo uses only a very small amount of network bandwidth, thus is available to players who have limited connections that would get a very poor experience in open. I believe this also links to why you can take high-resolution screenshots (using Alt+F10) in solo and private groups, but not in open.

(For the record, personally I'm a strong believer in Open Play, and fly almost entirely in Open despite having no interest/ability in PvP combat. While I would always encourage others to do the same, I recognise and respect that there are multiple reasons why players might prefer to fly in Solo or private groups.)

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

No thanks.

 

[Shadowdancer]

Let me make this perfectly clear: I play solo and PG because I hate most other people.

 

[HairyMonkey]

@Ian Doncaster : Thanks for a thought-out response.

This isn't WoW, though - there's no clear mechanical separation between a PvP action and a PvE action.

Not able to shoot someone to do damage? Ram them.
Not able to ram them to do damage? Ram them into something else.
Not able to do that because collisions don't transfer momentum either? Sit a couple of Sidewinders in the docking slot of a CG station (on rotation to avoid the loitering timer) and lock everyone else in or out because they can no longer slowly shove you aside.

Good point, in WoW there is no player clipping, that would be disconcerting in ED to say the least.

Another less-noticed thing: you can only take high-res screenshots in Solo and Private Group, because the lag they induce can be a major problem in a shared instance. If you get rid of those modes, you get rid of high-res screenshots ... if you only keep Solo, then you can't take high-res screenshots with other players in.

I wasn't aware of this limitation. Seems a bit odd though, since it's all rendered client side?

 

[HairyMonkey]

No thanks.

Care to ellaborate? Is it the removal of solo that irks you, or the PvP toggle? other?

 

[HairyMonkey]

For the record, personally I'm a strong believer in Open Play, and fly almost entirely in Open despite having no interest/ability in PvP combat. While I would always encourage others to do the same, I recognise and respect that there are multiple reasons why players might prefer to fly in Solo or private groups.

I agree. I currently play in Mobius to avoid gankers, but I'd much rather play in Open and at least know that there are thousands of other CMDRs nearby that would/could be visible. The P2P method could also be another limiting factor, I've read many posts about people struggling to get a handful of people in the same instance.

I think what bugs me the most, is that you can invest a lot of time (days/weeks/months of real time) in building something up, ship/modules/exploration data, and then have that taken away in seconds by some murder hobo just for lolz.

Maybe what I'm after is a way to reduce the penalty for being killed and thought the PvP flag would be a good way to avoid that from other CMDRs at least. Referring to WoW again, there's no real penalty for dying, 10% durability loss on equipment, but all your stuff is still with you.

If you can rebuy your engineered modules without visiting engineer, why isn't your data re-buyable?
If you can recieve Galnet News while 5000LY from the bubble, why can't you send your exploration data back so it's safe?

 

[Old Duck]

Solo mode is required for consoles, because console owners have to pay a yearly fee for the "privilege" to play multiplayer games. I'm a console owner who loves his PS4, but I really despise this (thanks Microsoft). If Frontier were to remove Solo, it would break the game for countless players.

FWIW, had Frontier removed Solo before releasing the game on the console and sold it as multiplayer-only, then this wouldn't be a problem (assuming Frontier made it very clear that console owners would need a gold / PS+ subscription to play the game). However, the horse is out of the barn...

 

[dunno]

I play solo because of internet lag issues, and the unreliability of the internet, not everyone lives in sweden where the internet is as reliable as the Mains Power.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

I wasn't aware of this limitation. Seems a bit odd though, since it's all rendered client side?

It is - but taking a high-res screenshot pauses your client for at least a noticeable fraction of a second, sometimes for a few seconds, while it renders the scene and writes everything to disk. In a multiplayer battle the network lag this causes could be used to your advantage - they follow where they think you are, but actually you took a screenshot and are somewhere else.

 

[Sebastian Rooks]

No.
Thanks for your time.

No thanks.

I just checked the yard. The "No Soliciting" sign is missing.

Rooks o7