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Then you have missed the point of the thread...
The question was raised "Why is PvP not popular in ED?" and some answers have been given but the fundamental reason is that ED is not specifically designed for PvPers that are specifically looking for PvP engagements on a regular basis. As FD put it, PvP is intended to be rare and meaningful, this is probably just another way of saying ED is not targeted at frag-fest-PvPers - e.g. if you are looking for CoD in space then you have come to the wrong place.
PvP in ED is just a facilitator for piracy and bounty hunting primarily; However, at least some seem to be expecting ED to support free-for-all PvP behaviours. While the mechanics themselves do not expressly inhibit certain classes of behaviour there are some that are considered undesirable (handled by C&P consequences primarily) and others that can be considered reportable in accordance with the EULA/TOS. The fundamental issue here is that at least some disagree with the implications of EULA/TOS that mean at least some patterns of behaviour are subject to a subjective assessment (resulting in a shadowban sanction) by FD if reported by a given targeted player (or potentially group of players). Avoiding genuine and justified reports is just a matter of using common sense.
How the above relates to PvP popularity? It is simple, at least some PvPers behave in a way that put others off wanting to expose themselves to PvP that is obviously out of alignment with FD's apparent vision for PvP in ED. This has the knock on effect of damaging the apparent popularity of PvP in ED as a whole.
There are other side issues relating to game balance as a whole, but fundamentally those issues are the direct result of certain choices and related behaviours across multiple groups rather than the game balance itself. FD have tried directly tackling (at least some of) the issues in play relating to balance but the wider community for whatever reasons provided enough resistance for them to change their tack. Currently, FD appear to be on a path to addressing the issues in play by introducing diversity and forcing balance and compromise by flanking and side-stepping the issues.
I personally know people who play only in Open and also people who play only in Private Group or Solo - the reasons for their choices vary but neither group is PvP focused. Personally, I would not mind playing with both groups simultaneously but the main stumbling block as I see it is the behaviours of at least some PvPers. I have seen similar mentalities in GTA Online but in that case I suspect the situation is worse due in part to modders which is a problem FD does not seem to have (in any comparable form) - in both cases the relevant behaviours are reportable and sanction-able by the developers but that does not stop at least some people trying to push their luck. For ED, that means I stay out of Open as much as possible as that allows me to both avoid having to deal with the behaviours and still engage with at least one of the groups.
That being said, this thread is not directly about my personal experience nor views but rather why PvP is not popular - TL;DR while ED has PvP enabled, it is not intended to be a primary goal (PvP is designed as a facilitator for other activities - nothing more). Those that try to treat PvP as a primary goal are probably at least part of the reason why others that are not PvP focused (but not necessarily opposed to PvP in general) may try to avoid PvP completely - ergo the view by some PvPers that there is an apparent lack of PvP popularity in ED.
Sounds like you want EvE with space piloting, ED is not and (hopefully) will never be that.
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PVP'ers don't really care, PK'ers feelings are hurt because no one wants to play with them.
Well PvP is pointless in the sense that it isn't a meaningful tactic in the game, and changing that would likely require some pretty fundamental changes.
But it can be a lot of fun, and it can add tension and drama to otherwise fairly mundane activities like a Cargo CG
Well PvP is pointless in the sense that it isn't a meaningful tactic in the game, and changing that would likely require some pretty fundamental changes.
But it can be a lot of fun, and it can add tension and drama to otherwise fairly mundane activities like a Cargo CG
^^^
This
I fly primarily fly in Open for the little bit of adrenaline that flying in Open brings. Most of the time, I rarely even see anyone, even in busy systems like CGs. When I do see people, they rarely move to interdict me.
The problems begin when someone does move to interdict me.
The largest problem is that they want me to provide content for them, but are unwilling to provide content in return. I don't ask for much, but I do expect them to be more interesting than the NPCs in this game. I've been playing since Alpha, and I can count on one hand the number of would-be "pirates" who have actually communicated with me. I have fingers left over if I remove Powerplay encounters.
The next largest problem is the lack of interesting choices to make during a PvP encounter. Since I'm inevitably in a ship not designed for PvP combat, and they're inevitably in a ship designed to kill other ships, my decision matrix is reduced from "Fight or Flight" to just "Flight." Unless they communicate, of course, which adds "Negotiate" and "Catch me if you can!" to the matrix. Much more fun, IMO.
The last problem is the gap in skill. I am by no means an Ace PvP pilot. During those rare moments I participate in PvP tournaments, I rank towards the bottom. The people who try to attack me are usually worse than I am. Most of the time, I can keep them off my six in Supercruise, leading them on a merry chase through the system, never giving them a chance at interdiction. When I am interdicted, I'm usually able to get into their six, and stay there until I can low wake out. I can only conclude that these players only attack ships that don't have a chance of fighting back, and they have no idea what to do if the other player goes off script.
These are good points. Non of them are my reasons, but they underline the fact that PvP is never the best tool for the job in ED.
Maybe its the type of PvP games I enjoy, but whenever I see skewed results like that, with huge outliers in their KDR, there's often something fishy going on. Some players get a reputation for intentionally throwing matches repeatedly, in order to bring their ELO rating down so that they can easily dominate players who have less skill than they do. On the flip side, there are players who are willing to create new accounts just so they can kill newbies.
Any system that tries to judge a player's relative skill can be manipulated by players who aren't looking for a fair fight.
Of course, sometimes it's simply a case of an organized group facing a pick-up group. Since my time to play games is both limited and variable, being part of an organized group is difficult, so I'm inevitably part of a pick-up group. The best games I've ever had are when I'm chosen in to fill in the gaps of an organized group's roster, and they make sure I know it and coordinate with me. Coordination is a huge force multiplier, and most PUGs lack it. Of course, the inevitable result is that my outstanding performance bumps up my ELO rating above what my actual rating is, so I inevitably get slaughtered for a game or two until I'm back to where I'm supposed to be. And, of course, being on the receiving end of a OG vs PUG sucks.
People need a sense of constant validation. Now more than ever. Its the way we have become now.
I blame the "Like" button on Facebook.
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What people? I think you are projecting.
He has a point - albeit in reverse.
Smashing noobs and PvEers probably does give people quite the sense of validation - there must be some mental reward process going on considering the game doesn't care.
[haha] [haha]
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i was just thinking that Frosty.
Isnt that the special snowflake mentality?
Just throw in over there, on the pile of other reasons PvP is not popular in ED!
Just to add to this also you made a very good point. If you dont want to PVP that is why the solo and private groups are there. What other reason is there for playing for in Open if you dont want to PVP? What activity is exclusive to open play that you feel youd miss out on? Is this not why the solo and private group options were put there int he first place? This crowd are already catered to and yet here we all are...
Also, seeing as we PVPers are in the minority how could this even be an issue? How are we such a problem and causing so much "grief" if we are supposedly vastly less plentifull than the other groups?
Ill tell you - Hyperbole.
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If there was an official PvE group then I'd agree, but since there's only fan-run Mobius who get very little help and no tools to support them then for the majority it's effectively Open and being able to socialise or Solo and all on your own for vast numbers of players until they happen to hear about Mobius.
This should be obvious and if PvPers aren't grasping that then they're missing a major factor. People want to play PwP
This should be obvious and if PvPers aren't grasping that then they're missing a major factor. People want to play PwP
I didn't actually say I wanted anything. The point I was trying to make and obviously failed to get across to you is that I don't see the question as to why pvp isnt popular as one worth asking. If you dont want to pvp in ED then you dont have to. I do no pvp at all in ED purely because there is no point to it. If it had a point yes I may well do then but I don't ever see fdev making pvp have a point in this universe and will therefore just potter round the galaxy instead
Must be masochism i guess and some kind of need to release their anger. They cant do it in-game, so they try to use their vocal skills on forum :'D Actually PvE are one of most toxic communities in games, especially when they contact other players who dont want to play with their rules(we even see here one man who everytime talk about EULA). Have you ever met PvP player who kill you and then throw some dirt at you? Doubt it, but possible. But for sure you've met people who die by your hands and then they throw tons of words at your face, for sure he will tell you how much he hate you, your family, your playstyle, that you're coward and 8y/o jerk, later he will make post on forum about your kind, where they can gather and make some psychological portrait of you [haha].
Some pages ago they've said that Elite is not about PvP, that it is not fit game's spirit, it even dont work well with EULA, and then thay decide to talk why PvP is not popular again. :S PvE players discuss why PvP is not popular. Wow!
The point is its fun.
At least to the people who enjoy it.
Thats why I play it, as for me, shooting braindead NPCs is no challenge whatsoever.
I get what youre saying though- in a round about way, its not fun for you, so theres no point.
We dont have to justify ourself to anyone man.
PVP is part of the game and no amount of salt from PVEers is gonna change that.
I just wish they all adopted your attitude and said "ok, this is not for me, but it doesnt bother me" And use the other available modes that were put in specifically for them.
Instead of trying to seek vallidation constantly by trying to undermine other peoples decision to play and enjoy it.
Weak.
As I said before: There will always be people who are excellent at this game...and there will always be people who are less than excellent and its impossible to keep the two seperate in Open. People will be exploded in this game featuring exploding space ships.
Go figure.
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As for whether the question is worth asking, you will have to ask the OP on that one for their rationale.
PvP is not completely pointless in ED, it is just PKing clean targets mostly is. There is ALOT of point for Bounty Hunters... they are perhaps the only group that truly benefits in-game from killing other players but that is on the presumption those players have a bounty. Not sure if PP PvP gains the killer anything.
Sure, random PvP killing is mostly pointless (from an in-game perspective) and if that is what some are after then perhaps they need to look elsewhere to get their kicks - I would not expect FD to make any direct concessions to that crowd (at least outside the bounds of CQC).
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