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I can't help but feel that the past few pages have demonstrated a difference in approach that goes some way towards answering the OP's question.
There is a straightforward belligerence to some encounters that bludgeons any opportunity for any more subtle interplay to shine through. In general, I have no real interest in engaging with this type, they are playing in a different way and any overlap of interest is small. I can imagine a player like this would feel much the same way about a player like me.
What you are suggesting sounds very much like some sort of battle areana mode, which we already have, its called CQC
For me, PvP in Elite involves too much organisation, planning, research, time and even cash-invested before you can really compete.
You need a fully engineered ship, which takes a lot of time and effort and planning;
You need to learn what "fully engineered" means for PvP (lots of loadouts are useless for killing players), which involves experimentation and research using out-of-game resources, which takes time and effort;
You need lots of in-game money saved up to absorb the inevitable cost of losing;
You need to sit around analysing 30 minute videos of other people playing (yawn);
You need lots of practice before you have a realistic chance of winning (which might not happen fast given the unpredictability of finding other players in-game, so realistically you might have to use out-of-game resources to arrange fights);
It seems most PvPers fly FA-off with joysticks and stuff instead of keyboard and mouse, so there's potentially a real-world cost too.
From where I'm standing, that's a serious amount of work. If I had that sort of drive and commitment, I'd be putting it into some kind of meaningful career rather than a videogame.
Not that I'm complaining: I get that people find it rewarding, and I enjoy trying to dodge death/die gloriously at the hands of a space murderer, but that's why it's not for me.
I just want to veg out and fly a spaceship/scan things/make things explode.
You need a fully engineered ship, which takes a lot of time and effort and planning;
You need to learn what "fully engineered" means for PvP (lots of loadouts are useless for killing players), which involves experimentation and research using out-of-game resources, which takes time and effort;
You need lots of in-game money saved up to absorb the inevitable cost of losing;
You need to sit around analysing 30 minute videos of other people playing (yawn);
You need lots of practice before you have a realistic chance of winning (which might not happen fast given the unpredictability of finding other players in-game, so realistically you might have to use out-of-game resources to arrange fights);
It seems most PvPers fly FA-off with joysticks and stuff instead of keyboard and mouse, so there's potentially a real-world cost too.
From where I'm standing, that's a serious amount of work. If I had that sort of drive and commitment, I'd be putting it into some kind of meaningful career rather than a videogame.
Not that I'm complaining: I get that people find it rewarding, and I enjoy trying to dodge death/die gloriously at the hands of a space murderer, but that's why it's not for me.
I just want to veg out and fly a spaceship/scan things/make things explode.
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FA-Off is an essential skill for some ships (PvE context) and is worth trying to master regardless of your choice of control mechanism.
I have done my time with keyboard and mouse in ED and would recommend either a HOTAS Joystick or at a push Gamepad for ED. It need not cost a lot of money though - the Thrustmaster HOTAS X T-Flight is a good economic choice and is probably the most cost effective option.
Where Engineering is concerned, the playing field has been somewhat levelled with 3.0 but there may still be issues with "god builds" of some ships. There have been some weapons introduced in 3.0 that mitigate this to some degree but no doubt there will still be some issues since those weapons can not be modded and normal weapons can be.
Personally, I would not watch other people playing - it may be enjoyable for some but it does not teach you much you can not better learn by practice. WRT how much practice you might need, that is very individual specific. IMO The training mode part of ED is ideal for practicing various things without risking your in-game assets.
Where money is concerned, ED is not a frag-fest game - PvP should be considered a means to an end rather than an end in itself. CQC is really aimed at frag-fest type gameplay but is currently restricted to SLFs, if you want to specifically engage in PvP that is probably the best mode to do so.
you are so right
i just want to add regarding the video of other cmdrs
rlsg "Personally, I would not watch other people playing - it may be enjoyable for some but it does not teach you much you can not better learn by practice"
yes just watching wont make you a better player you need to practice what you see from the masters and add your flavor unless you want to reinvent the wheel again
Hardly, and IMO you have just invalidated ANY opinions you may have or have ever had about ED with your entire response.
Having actually used a T-Flight myself, it is probably the best stick for the price - which was a relevant point given their concerns about real money expenditure. In the UK, no other stick matches up to it for <40UKP.
I still have it as a backup for my Warthog which is part of my main setup.
Not really, nothing in the vids is particularly revealing about "tactics" per se. There is so much more to learning to fly then watching people fly circles or straff past each other - none of that is particularly new nor innovative, essentially reduxes of what has been shown in sci-fi movies for years.
I credit twitch or you tube streams with less interest than a B movie - and yes, I have seen at least some of these so-called pro streams.
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Hardly, and IMO you have just invalidated ANY opinions you may have or have ever had about ED with your entire response.
Having actually used a T-Flight myself, it is probably the best stick for the price - which was a relevant point given their concerns about real money expenditure. In the UK, no other stick matches up to it for <40UKP.
I still have it as a backup for my Warthog which is part of my main setup.
It is an excellent controller. Not the best, but probably the best value. I have my old one as a spare too, I bought a T16000FCS for the extra analogue inputs and more buttons on the throttle. The T-flight has a centre detent on the throttle & lockable joystick yaw (I don't use the twist axis) that I wish the T16000 had.
Same reason it's not popular in Dark Souls, (except it is!), well it isn't for many Souls players, and ultimately it's the same with Elite.
Essentially the experience for most players is, you're doing your own thing 98% of the time, then suddenly out of the blue someone appears, kitted out specifically to take you down, while you're kitted for PvE and not at all prepared (why would you be). They know all the tricks and specialise in killing players, and you don't, and well you get rekt and that's it.
You then pay a load of rebuy money, you lose your crew you spent 2 months training up, you lose your carefully sourced Neofabric Isolators you spent all night getting, and the attacker gets off scot-free.
And that's most folks experience of PvP, I mean what do you expect.
Obviously people who seek out PvP are the exception to this, so the question could actually be "why don't more seek out PvP". I guess the answer to that is the game doesn't lead people there in any way whatsoever, all most people get is the negative experience described above, or maybe it's being ganked repeatedly in Eravate or whatever.
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+Rep... And again we go round the loop... PvP is unpopular because of the behaviours of some PvPers... it seems some will never get it.
The T-flight is the vw golf of flight controllers, not the yugo. It's a safe bet if you don't know what you want (but you want a hotas). There are way worse sticks. Of course there are better ones too
Well to be honest I think it's the game that's the issue, not the players. I don't think I have any answers though.
On the Souls games, I will say it would not surprise me if From's next game removes invasions altogether.
In that they can see that rare PvP is not very compatible with a good PvE experience, and so if their focus is on polishing PvE I would not be surprised if PvP will probably still exist, but in its own dedicated mode only.
I am not sure this is the answer for ED though, my feeling is Frontier must provide players with the tools or the environment such that PvP never comes as a surprise.
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The experience of myself and a few others proves to the contrary.
HOTAS solutions in general are by far superior to Keyboard+Mouse, the latter just does not offer anything close to the same level of refinement of control. Even VoiceAttack can not adequately compensate for the limited availability of analogue controls in a KB/M setup.
As for decent weapon accuracy, it is achievable with a HOTAS solution. It is worth considering the point that ED appears to have been optimised for HOTAS (and to a degree VR), neither are required to play ED but they do make a positive difference in control terms. The in-game cockpit controls even look a lot like the Saitek X52 setup (the X52 is a terrible controller for Windows 8/8.1/10 due to driver concerns by the way - and yes I have tried it).
As a side note, I would not personally recommend gamepads of any sort for ED.
As I have pointed out before, blaming ED is a bit like blaming guns directly for people going on killing sprees with them.
I know we will probably never agree on that point, but I believe people should actually use common sense and restraint where appropriate - a shame that in the on-line environment a few choose to behave in a toxic manner instead.
Or the availability of guns, which is definitely a debate.
I'm not saying PvPers or gun owners are bad. But there will always be toxic folk out there, unfortunately you have to build the system taking that into account.
I would rather have the toxic folk hit with a proverbial hammer and told not to behave that way.
If anyone can't behave reasonably in an on-line game like ED regardless of game balance then IMO they should not be playing the game at all. Not all PvPers are part of the toxic crowd which is the sad part of it all.
Luckily, FD seem to have considered the point that some will not pay due consideration to their vision for PvP in ED and allowed us to play with (or against) others using Private Groups.
That toxic behaviour comes from the staunchly PvE player is no better than the hardcore PvP one. Fundamentally ED caters for (or aims to) such a broad cross-section that there is never going to be much common ground between the extremes. Provided the leave each other alone there is no problem, and I'm not sure it's up to the game to keep them apart. If a player who really should be in solo or a group (ie they get upset at being attacked) wants to choose Open, I don't think it's the game's place to stop them (it could warn them). Similarly if a PvP player wants to infiltrate a PvE group the game doesn't prevent it (but it could remind them of the rules of the group).
I don't use fixed weapons personally except in rare circumstances.
I have also used KB/M prior to using ANY HOTAS solution and it is by far superior IMO. HOTAS does lead to better control of flight, especially if you can control yaw/pitch/roll simultaneously - the primary thing I miss on the T-Flight relative to the Warthog.
KB/M is just too constraining in motion, sure you can point and shoot off-bore sight easier but the downsides of the KB/M system relative to the HOTAS do not make up for this. KB/M in the main has the net effect of having worse accuracy all things considered IMO/IME. In some other games it is the other way round - i.e. KB/M is better - but overall it depends on how the flight mechanics and control systems are written.
As for VoiceAttack, I have it but do not rely on it - the main issue being the Voice Recognition engine it relies on being pants, there are much better voice recognition engines than Microsoft's. I do know people who swear by it though and do not find it a liability - I guess their voice pattern falls into Microsoft's ideal range of speech patterns.
Well by building the system around it I don't mean game modes.
I'm not really seriously suggesting this but for example....
One way might be to try to increase the divide between PvP/PvE so there's minimal overlap, maybe the C+P system might do this, disincentive-ise attacking "lawful" PvE players.
Also perhaps swap the CQC rank for a PvP rank (criminal?), but have it as a true dynamic ranking system. Not a grind system where the earliest players have the best rank.
So you try to separate PvE / PvP but you also make moving PvE players into PvP an option. So you try to legitimise PvP, but also (to a degree) make it optional.
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