Starting To Seriously Lose Faith

Would Mr. Braben do the same things 8 times to unlock a Guardian weapon? I doubt he would even do it twice, certainly not three times. FDev needs to design games they themselves would play.

I never imagined there were any housewives playing this game. It's great to see we have a little diversity in the community.

I think FDev want people to spend more time playing the game so they keep adding time sinks. But the time sinks turn off people who have limited time so they play less. I would play more if there were fewer time sinks. I think if they removed most of the time sinks, they could double or triple their player base.
 
Why have 'hope the game lives up to my potential'? I gave up that hope on all the games I play. Now I play games to see where devs are going to steer it, and to watch others realize the truth....your idea of 'potential' doesn't mean anything!

For the mug! Indeed.....

welcome-to-the-dark-side-we-lied-about-the-cookies-bottles-mugs-frosted-glass-beer-mug.webp
 
Playing any game too much is a bad idea, that's why I keep my ED hours under control. And other games hours. If you get more than 100 hours of play out of a game your doing very well.
 
I lost faith in FDev years ago. Their inability to resolve fundamental issues (like the wing displacement bug) was the seed of the realisation, but there are many parts to it.

FDev don't appear to play their own game as gamers; it seems they start the game up to test basic functionality and that's it. If you want an example of this systemic issue, I would point to the Power Play rebalance a while back. That came about because (for the first time since introducing Power Play) they actually talked to Power Players and found out how the game was actually played. When showed in-game how it was done they were shocked. How the hell can you be shocked at how your own game is played??? Do you not run analysis? Do you not place people in game to take part?

Further, you can see it in the live streams, especially in the latest one. Ed sets off on a long trip without a fuel scoop. Without an ADS to scan planets at the far end. Without having practiced using coordinates to land. How does a community manager do a live stream without having done a dry run before hand? What? How unprepared can you be? How can you not know how to target something in an SRV?

Elite has stopped being a 'choose your own path' game. It's not about choice, it's about an ever shrinking horizon of what FDev can be bothered to support. Where are all the old mission types? If the mission board still offered every type of mission we've seen since release, with a decent number offered on the board, board hopping would be a thing of the past. Instead, we get herded towards the latest content. Didn't play that content when it was in the game (or it was removed before you purchased) so sad for you. And, ok, so they haven't put your particular favoured type of gameplay in the "too hard" basket yet... the important word there is 'yet'.

FDev's 'personal narrative' regarding Elite is a series of missed opportunities, of half delivered promises, and a pursuit of what interests FDev, not what the community wants or needs. Of social tools that are needed but still only hinted at. Of half implemented gameplay that has been abandoned. Of the implementing of new features with new UIs when the old one would do (you have a perfectly useful filter UI, why can't we use that to set what limpets will/won't collect).

Where are the 'mini-CGs' created by player activity? Where is Freedom Fighters, the bridge between Power Play and the BGS, to finally rationalise the insane political scene?

FDev make changes so infrequently they feel they have to make big adjustments. The community says "there's a balance issue; you can do either A or B to solve it". FDev does A and B, and it swings too far. Or they do A and C and ruin it. Or they do C and D and it swings so far it created exploits. Because they do big, monolithic patches they are afraid of small adjustments.

Most MMOS run permanent live beta servers. Most MMOs do little adjustments as well as big patches. FDev say "it's not an MMO!" and then miss every opportunity to learn from the mistakes that MMOs have made in the past.

And then there is the insanity of the lack of in-game tools. We have FDev running hundreds of servers providing the game to the community. All the data is there. So... can we search prices (just like we can today, in 2018)? No, we have to collect the data from the game, transmit it to 3rd party servers (which all cost money, consume electricity and rare earths, and produce CO2) so that FDev can... what? Maintain lore consistency with the 80's, so that Braben can say "use a pencil and a notepad", as if that was part of the fun of Elite in the 80's? Insanity.

Rather than force third party developers to replicate the ENTIRE dataset MULTIPLE TIMES, they should have provided a query-able API just like the community asked for three years ago. There should have been a bi-directional interface to allow mods and tools to directly interface with the in-game UI, providing seamless, immersive functionality, while at the same time allowing the use of a common dataset. It drives player choice (you don't have to use the tool) while at the same time saving literally tonnes of CO2 and rare-earths being used up to duplicate a dataset over and over and over and over.

At this point, I wonder if FDev aren't so far down the rabbit hole they won't ever find their way back out. I hope they can. Elite is an amazing foundation to build on, but it seems that FDev may have lost their way, pursuing what interests them rather than balancing that with what the community wants and needs. It's starting to feel that Elite is less and less a glorious online community and more and more a vehicle for selling ship kits and paintjobs.
 
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Isn't the beyond season meant to be sorting out what is wrong with the game, and making improvements.

Instead of making silly ship colour paint kits, and more RNG, how about looking at what is rally needed.
Everything seems so Engineer based at this point in time, Fine if you really want to Engineer, but what if you don't!

A simple way of looking at this changing game play, not so much for the better, Is does anyone rem: the beta and first release of the game where by all USS were full of cargo. Sometime loads of it just like the original 1984 version, but hey now all you ever find is material, material, & more material.
Lets engineer, LETS NOT i'm pretty miffed at everything evolving around engineering, missions get material rewards to engineer, hey found a USS degraded site full of material, found a combat aftermath USS cool full of ..material, planet poi...material, now look what we have at stations material TRADERS OMG.

Everything is engineering based, even passenger missions give out wait for it material...Might as well call it "Elite dangerous..The Material Season" if you think about it, it's there way of pushing us to do engineering. But I seem to recall that they wanted to find out why players are not engaging in other galaxy type things..EASY because everything is MATERIALS.... I bet there is a player out who went to the other side of the galaxy and found...material I would of been super miffed to find that.

But I know what your saying but we have the Thargoids they will change everything for us, and we can attack them cool, however there is something we need to find to make AX weapons, YES don't make me say it..but now it's alien material?!!
A whole new grind in a whole new way. Don't forget coming soon Guardian material, after that well lets wait and see.

Yes a bit of rant of course, however when all said and done I like Elite, when it gets to much I don't play it for some months until something new is added, ok I admit it will probably be "material" related yet again but I'm sure I've mentioned that already.
At least the krait is coming, just hope we haven't got to find material to engineer it or something.
 
Isn't the beyond season meant to be sorting out what is wrong with the game, and making improvements.

Instead of making silly ship colour paint kits, and more RNG, how about looking at what is rally needed.
Everything seems so Engineer based at this point in time, Fine if you really want to Engineer, but what if you don't!

A simple way of looking at this changing game play, not so much for the better, Is does anyone rem: the beta and first release of the game where by all USS were full of cargo. Sometime loads of it just like the original 1984 version, but hey now all you ever find is material, material, & more material.
Lets engineer, LETS NOT i'm pretty miffed at everything evolving around engineering, missions get material rewards to engineer, hey found a USS degraded site full of material, found a combat aftermath USS cool full of ..material, planet poi...material, now look what we have at stations material TRADERS OMG.

Everything is engineering based, even passenger missions give out wait for it material...Might as well call it "Elite dangerous..The Material Season" if you think about it, it's there way of pushing us to do engineering. But I seem to recall that they wanted to find out why players are not engaging in other galaxy type things..EASY because everything is MATERIALS.... I bet there is a player out who went to the other side of the galaxy and found...material I would of been super miffed to find that.

But I know what your saying but we have the Thargoids they will change everything for us, and we can attack them cool, however there is something we need to find to make AX weapons, YES don't make me say it..but now it's alien material?!!
A whole new grind in a whole new way. Don't forget coming soon Guardian material, after that well lets wait and see.

Yes a bit of rant of course, however when all said and done I like Elite, when it gets to much I don't play it for some months until something new is added, ok I admit it will probably be "material" related yet again but I'm sure I've mentioned that already.
At least the krait is coming, just hope we haven't got to find material to engineer it or something.

It seems, at the moment, that FD's 'game' for ED is engineering ships...

Don't add anything more to do with it, just keep on improving the ship.

Feels like a shame really, when they created a whole galaxy.
 
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Everyone on this thread might be interested to hear that the Rep function cannot be seen by developers and isn't a factor whatsoever in gauging how much support a suggestion is getting:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...quot-Suggestion-threads-to-show-support/page2

Guess that's yet another thing I have to try and figure out how to squeeze into my sig. That seems like something important enough to be a pop-up that appears every time someone visits the forums.
 
I have my issues with ED - and i will defend it to the hilt in other places.
but this quoted above is PC master race nonsense. Even the (weak sauce) xbox 1 is far above the minimum specs for ED. if you want to blame the console for curtailing of features you may as well also blame peasants who cant afford top of the range pcs (no i dont think they are peasants but that is the vibe given in the post above)

The issue isn't (as far as I'm aware) performance. I would say it comes down mostly to controllers. If you're developing for a PC, you can almost guarantee that the player is sitting in front of a keyboard with 100 or so mappable keys and they also have a mouse which allows extremely quick and convenient UI navigation. I have to remind myself sometimes that there are a ton of PC players who don't play with HOTAS or some sort of joystick!

When developing for consoles, you have to assume that the majority of players would have nothing more than the standard controller with a fairly limited (considering) array of buttons. I would also assume that many of them aren't sitting less that a metre away from their screens. So any UI (and accompanying gameplay) has to be designed in a way that is fairly readable at a distance and can be navigated using a joystick controller without going completely insane. That raises a few challenges.
 
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This thread has tuned into a behemoth that I'm not willing or able to devote the time to read every comment on, however I share the OP's opinion, and I also get increasingly cut up by the squandered potential. Commercially FD are right to seek new markets and broaden the appeal of this game to the general gaming community, which is IMHO an underlying reason for a lot of the choices made in this games development. On the otherhand we hardcore elite sim types as a community have only our selves to blame for that, if you look at the amount of non horizons players, and people who have played horizons for 27 months and not bought much of anything from the webstore in the interim, they must think the servers run on pixie dust and the developers are volunteers, neither of which is true, so to keep the company proffitable and the game going its been sold out. Or at least thats how I interpret it.

The power creap, and the instant gratificaiton of mission rewards being an order of magnitude out of kilter, and loot and craft and such like are all very gamer lolz... Case in point when I joined at the release of horizons, a ground strike cut the power or shoot the skimmer missions were insanely more rewarding than anything else on offer from the mission board, that 75k reward - wow.... By the time of 2.1 when I was working on my imperial rank, I was pulling in 300k+ for those same missions (fun times by the way pulling my eagle up to shoot at the underside of skimmers at hip 10716 with fixed pulse lasers). Nowadays, those missions are north of a million, sometimes two point something million.

I've got an altaccount in a battle conda, took a couple of weeks to build that, and that was before the latest and greatest gold rushes at quince / upsillon aquiri. The game I bought was never that shallow and simplistic, and the dream I bought into the development of would never have made any of the design decisions that would have put us on that path. Instead I anticipated it developing a realistic economy and more depth to what was there rather than just throwing the kiddies exploits to farm, and yes I'm convinced the exploits are put in there deliberately.

There has only been one exploit FDev undone players gain through, and that was the G1 mats for G5 rolls to spam roll god rolls at engineers, all the credit farming "iWin" instant gratification mentality continues to get fed with new places to go and ever greater rewards and no punishment. Were the insane rewards really mistakenly available the credits earned there ought to be confiscated, like the modules that alot of PvP guys lost. The fact they arent confiscating the credits makes me think they actually intend for players to exploit those opportunities. Furthermore, far too much development time is spent adjusting combat balance, for the love of randominous, there is a whole g galaxy with very little content in it, and from 2.1 until 3.0 nowt but beige planets.

AFIK the initial seed of the game we know as Elite Dangerous started as a back room project with David Braben very much in charge of it, he then passed it to "the team" sandro, michael brooks etc... and they continued to develop it. I often find myself wondering how the game would be if David Braben were to retake the reigns of it and personally oversee its development rather than delegate it to "his team"?
 
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I have my issues with ED - and i will defend it to the hilt in other places.
but this quoted above is PC master race nonsense. Even the (weak sauce) xbox 1 is far above the minimum specs for ED. if you want to blame the console for curtailing of features you may as well also blame peasants who cant afford top of the range pcs (no i dont think they are peasants but that is the vibe given in the post above)

And I am just giving the poster be benefit of the doubt and he does not mean something even more insulting like that the console playerbase dont have the skills or intelligence for an indepth space game... .because that would be even worse.

there are lots of good deep games on console and there are lots of shovelware dirge (arguably less than is on steam however). ED may go from strength to strength or it may die a slow death... either way it wont be because of xbox 1 or ps4 players

I was talking about complexity in gameplay, not about hardware and related.

Anyone can agree the mechanics of this game are limited: USS, RES, Nav Beacon, Conflict Zones, Trading, Exploration, Bounty Hunting. The game is built around simplistic gameplay and mechanics.
You cant do "complex" managements on a ship with a gamepad. Thats why we have a simple PIP system and not a more robust and complex window with management of the systems of the ship.
Another example, thats why we got a boring 3rd person camera to shoot things for multicrew.

We dont have mechanics to find guardian and thargoids places, we follow stupid riddles because we dont have exploration mechanics.
The only interactions we have in this "sandbox" is shoot, scan and collect things. Everything in this game is limited to those 3 interactions. The game doesnt go further.
Do you want to explore the guardian ruin? shoot them to collect the ancient relics, do you want to collect planetary materials? use the same weapon to shoot the rocks. Its ridiculous.

Do you want to "Bounty Hunt" go to a RES with infinite pirates.
Do you want to smuggle, dock at maximum speed and no one will notice.
The game has no sense because it doesnt have enough complex gameplay since 2014.

They are not building a complex game with mechanics, they are building a very accessible game which anyone can play but not escalable to people who want to feel they are piloting a ship with "complex" mechanics.

The game was released in december 2014 and the way we play is exactly the same as we played in the beta 2014. They added more yes, but we play in the same simplistic and limited way.
 
I really wish someone would tell the devs that f2p games are literally design to be just boring enough to make the player feel the need to spend money to skip the grind in order to have fun. Maybe if they knew that they wouldn't be so surprised that exploits are so popular since they are just taking the place of currency and booster store that the devs have unwittingly designed the game around.

Seriously, secondary, hard to obtain currency that can't be traded for with the main currency(mats), progression determined by rng, and long grinds to unlock content are not designed to increase player enjoyment. They are specifically designed to impede it so that players will want to buy boosters, currency and grindwall bypasses.

Imagine if fdev sold a booster that doubled the amount of materials you collected for an hour, so that instead of getting 3 per drop you would get 6. Or a "Palin research bundle" that unlocked and autorepped pailin and gave the player 30 CIF, 30 pharmaceutical isolators, and 30 cadmium. Or a buy-able "premium rolls" booster that doubled the progress you made on your next 10 engineering rolls.

bang on man...

it hurts me to say it, but ya this is so true, I was thinking almost the exact same thoughts the last few weeks....

let's not tempt them with the whole 'pay for a lootbox, pay to win, pay just a liitlle bit more if you actually want to have fun!!' thing though... seriously.. let's just not.

this is the cancer of gaming these days.
 
Everyone on this thread might be interested to hear that the Rep function cannot be seen by developers and isn't a factor whatsoever in gauging how much support a suggestion is getting:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...quot-Suggestion-threads-to-show-support/page2

Guess that's yet another thing I have to try and figure out how to squeeze into my sig. That seems like something important enough to be a pop-up that appears every time someone visits the forums.

top be honest, unless FD implement negative rep (and even if they did i am not sure rep of a thread is a good indication of something a dev should take note of... but there would be a better chance). then rep is a bad guide for pointing out what suggestions FD should take note on.

IF person X posted all the modes have to go and the game be open only - it WOULD get huge rep off a section of the forum who have been demanding that for ages despite it being a total bait and switch from the design.........
then if person Y said we need some EXTRA modes with different rule sets like in the DDF/Dev diaries that would ALSO get a huge amount of rep.

both of the above are polar opposite views and yet both would get a lot of rep.

also past polls have shown that some folk are happy to make sock puppet accounts or go over to other forums and get their mates to come and make an account just to vote on something. We dont even have to have played the game to post rep..

I know i am probably sounding like a broken record but all the legwork has already been done... where possible FD should just use the ideas forum they already have, the one folk paid a lot of money to have input on, and the one which already has the features rubber stamped by the devs... the DDF.
imo only when the devs look at a DDF suggesion and think, "we can do better than that" or "really that is not technically possible I would not know where to start to make that" should FD be asking for thoughts.

and then imo it should be very targeted.... ie. Hello CMDRS, we have been having a look at npc ships crew. Frankly we do not like the DDF proposal, we feel that what we put in there is a bare minimum of what you should expect (their words in the DDF) however we want to do better....... what suggestions do you have to improve them over and above what is in the DDF.
 
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Further, you can see it in the live streams, especially in the latest one. Ed sets off on a long trip without a fuel scoop. Without an ADS to scan planets at the far end. Without having practiced using coordinates to land. How does a community manager do a live stream without having done a dry run before hand? What? How unprepared can you be? How can you not know how to target something in an SRV?

My personal favourite Livestream revelatory moment was when Ed and Sandro went mat gathering to demonstrate the new Materials Trader. They needed a g1 mat. After trying to gather it by playing the game, they gave up and Dev-magicked it into the ship so they could proceed with the demo.

This, in a game in which the principal activity is mat gathering.

To repeat: Ed and Sandro tried to gather a g1 mat yet couldn't, so had to Dev-create it instead.

I mean ... guys ... I love what y'all have done with 3.0 personally but ... the g1 episode made me think, "now I understand why it took them two years to fix this stuff"
 
Also don't forget they are making a game for consoles so the gameplay will stay very limited and simplistic.
Its sad, I know.

Which is odd as when you look at the specs for a PS4pro

Product namePlayStation®4 Pro
Product codeCUH-7000 series
Main processorSingle-chip custom processor
CPU: x86-64 AMD “Jaguar”, 8 cores
GPU: 4.20 TFLOPS, AMD Radeon™ based graphics engine
MemoryGDDR5 8GB
Storage size*1TB
External dimensionsApprox. 295×55×327 mm (width × height × length)
(excludes largest projection)
MassApprox. 3.3 kg
BD/ DVD drive
(read only
BD × 6 CAV
DVD × 8 CAV
Input/ OutputSuper-Speed USB (USB 3.1 Gen.1) port × 3
AUX port × 1
NetworkingEthernet (10BASE-T, 100BASE-TX, 1000BASE-T)×1
IEEE 802.11 a/b/g/n/ac
Bluetooth® 4.0 (LE)
PowerAC 100-240V, 50/60Hz
Power consumptionMax. 310W
Operating temperature5ºC – 35ºC
AV outputHDMI™ out port (supports 4K/HDR)
DIGITAL OUT (OPTICAL) port

That's a damn site better than my PC, I have a AMD FX 6300 six core, yeah it's getting on a bit, a two year old gtx750i , still running 16 meg of DDR3, I win on storage and I know I have the option to upgrade but yeah the game is suffering because they are making a game for consoles...do people even think about stuff before they post it.

Just to add not owned a console since the PS2, and never owned an Xbox.
 
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As you were kind and honest enough, you said you were suffering from depression. And my guess is that many people here or elsewhere also suffer from depression, anxiety, frustrations etc. but hidden behind the walls of text. That's why we read obsessively bad and furious comments about a game here, usually made by grownups and that makes things even worse.

Depressed individuals cannot see the world as it is, but bent and twisted through depression lenses. Fix that bug first then try to see ED from another angle. Not sure you will like it then, but it's no point having another +23 page thread about how some players are displeased about a game, when in reality, it's them that needs fixing asap.
 
As you were kind and honest enough, you said you were suffering from depression. And my guess is that many people here or elsewhere also suffer from depression, anxiety, frustrations etc. but hidden behind the walls of text. That's why we read obsessively bad and furious comments about a game here, usually made by grownups and that makes things even worse.

Depressed individuals cannot see the world as it is, but bent and twisted through depression lenses. Fix that bug first then try to see ED from another angle. Not sure you will like it then, but it's no point having another +23 page thread about how some players are displeased about a game, when in reality, it's them that needs fixing asap.

Erm, no. Just no.
 
It seems, at the moment, that FD's 'game' for ED is engineering ships...

Don't add anything more to do with it, just keep on improving the ship.

Feels like a shame really, when they created a whole galaxy.

Yes... You're playing rather a lot of thin gameplay. You then Engineer your ship typically by being forced to do certain types of that thin gameplay. And once you've Engineered your ship (upto an needless upper unbalancing tier of pewpew) you can then return back to than same thin gameplay you were doing...?

But when do we move on from the thin gameplay? Hopefully starting Q4 this year!
 
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