XX Reasons Engineering 3.0 Is Horrible & Needs To Be Fixed.

[Valorin]

For the record, I disagree with all your points.

Me too.
I like the new engineering much better than the old system.
If you are not a top notch PvP player who wants to be competitive at all cost, or an explorer who needs a specific jump range to get somewhere, it's also absolutely optional. Which also makes material gathering completely optional, and also, in any way, not time critical.

 

[Zenith]

For the record, I disagree with all your points.

For the record, I disagree with your statement.
I agree with all the points of the OP.

Do I want to use the new engineering system? No.
Do I have to use the new engineering system? Yes, even if it is just to get around more quickly.
Do I have to change gameplay behaviour to gather materials? Yes

I'm in endgame after more than 3 years, and I can see the day (and relatively soon) I will put this game down and not come back to it. I spent all my time in ED this past week simply gathering materials, using material traders and working on modifying my exploration Cutter for DWE2 (yes, I know it's months away). I emphasised working because it felt like a chore, it wasn't fun. That is my litmus test for a game. Is it fun?
The new engineering sucks the fun out of playing to create a new waste of my time, and I'm not the only one who thinks it.

 

[Redomus]

For the record, I disagree with your statement.
I agree with all the points of the OP.

Do I want to use the new engineering system? No.
Do I have to use the new engineering system? Yes, even if it is just to get around more quickly.
Do I have to change gameplay behaviour to gather materials? Yes

I'm in endgame after more than 3 years, and I can see the day (and relatively soon) I will put this game down and not come back to it. I spent all my time in ED this past week simply gathering materials, using material traders and working on modifying my exploration Cutter for DWE2 (yes, I know it's months away). I emphasised working because it felt like a chore, it wasn't fun. That is my litmus test for a game. Is it fun?
The new engineering sucks the fun out of playing to create a new waste of my time, and I'm not the only one who thinks it.

Thats too bad, the new engineering has brought life back into the game for me. Theres only so much HGSS i could scour to gather my rolls and come back with nothing - then got shot up for not being competitive and the irony is I couldnt get competitive because of RNG failure. While I understand your sentiment, the mat gathering is significantly improved so I have to disagree with you there.

Pinning blueprints is also a godsend because it means that you dont have to fly to the engineer for your G5 fsd roll. The 1-4 mats come easy, and the G5 can be traded when needed as I have found. I still do a bit of searching for some stuff, but its much less - raw materials no seem to be a lot less of a problem than previous (or at least that has been my experience so far). Manufactured mats are the tricky ones, but its been a significant improvement over the old system by a long shot imo. Cut my engineering time down from months -> never completing to around 2-3 days to optimise drives/shield/weapons/distributor.

Grandfathered modules can be converted and start at top end G4/low G5. Had no issue there, it was like my modules only needed the G5 roll as per the old system. Even making new parts has been painless. Give it a try, I was pleasntly surprised.

In more or less every module I've had so far the new system has been an improvement on pretty much all of my old G5 rolls (which I thought were good until i saw the god rolls thread and then I gave up after months of work). Its nice to not have the constant neuroticism over material gathering to keep hammering at that shield generator or thrusters. I can now focus more on having fun than grinding.

Also after seeing what the new G5 dd thrusters can do and topped out shields I can now see why some are complaining because they cant lord it over the unlucky ones. Mindblowing difference in performance and there are still some modules out there which are better than the topped out G5 new engineer rolls.

 

[CMDR CPT. Boris]

XX Reasons Engineering 3.0 Is Horrible & Needs To Be Fixed.

seriously tho'
I can't disagree more

Engineers have never been that easy, I've done more roll than ever before thanks to this update :

-mats trader
-remote workshop
-mats rewards for mission
-more than one pinned blueprint

I mean come on, you now have alternative to collect data/mats and it is much easier than before

 

[PauloG01]

The new engineering system is much better them the old one, why? just because, as far as i know, engineering is not supposed to rely on luck.

 

[Crank Larson]

Given the responses in this thread (and others on the same subject), it does seem that most people prefer the new system. FD will never please everyone.

I haven't re-engineered any of the ships I got before 3.0, as I am perfectly happy with their performance (I think I may have one god roll in there somewhere, among my 12 or so ships). I did buy the Chieftain as soon as 3.0 dropped, and engineered that straight away. I had to collect some materials, but it basically took one evening to (nearly) fully engineer the ship. That is a huge improvement on the old system - it took me weeks to do the same prior to 3.0.

Everyone having access to exactly the same engineering is fair, in my view. God rolls that give players an advantage but that are very difficult for other players to achieve (unless the RNG god smiles on them) seriously diminished the old system.

 

[Sylow]

Just like many others already have said: the new system is a huge step in the right direction.
.
Is it perfect? Definitely not. But it's much better than what we had formerly, and while i also still see some issues and flaws in the new engineering (mostly the too strong power scaling), i dare to say that i disagree with all the points mentioned in the OP.
.

 

[Krieger]

If you take a step back and look at engineering from a distance there is really only one thing wrong with it: exaggeration.

The basic idea of engineers is good and was intended to:
- improve ship/weapon/module performance,
- add some randomness (in an attempt to avoid meta builds).
- increase the effort commanders had to put in to get it (aka grind).

They somehow ended up exaggerating each of those three points in a big way and many players were not happy with the result.

So in 3.0 Beyond, after many complaints, they removed the exaggeration of randomness. Unfortunately they were forced to increase the exaggeration of performance even more to get the grandfathered modules into the new system (still a problem IMHO).

You might expect they would remove (some of) the unpopular grind too, but they increased the grind even more with the mandatory grade 1-5 progression and the material collection process.

Don't ask me why. I don't get it. Apparently FDEV don't think they are exaggerating. "If it's worth doing it's worth overdoing" they seem to say.

 

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

i respect the view of those who just want access to everything at the start...... however I just cant see how that can fit into a progression based game which ED is, or, how both playstyles can possibly work together in the same space.

At some point FD have to commit to 1 type of game or the other, and imo the "grind" associated with engineers shows which path they want to travel.

the thing is the grind is in no relation to what you get. Why does a DD5 on a c3 costs a smuch as a DD5 on a c8? hows that even "equal" or those 10% lesser power draw on some shield booster, if you are unlucky the mats for just one roll need an hour or more to get. ONE ROLL, thats maybe 1% of what? 1,2mW?
the relations within this progression are seriously off.

@krieger

randomness never prevents meta builds, all it does is making metabuilds exclusive to the no lifers who addict the game. Sure it reduces the amount of existing meta builds, but it just puts the average pilot at disadvantage by not being able to "no life" as much as another pilot. this ind of method was just introduces by games like WoW ond asia gridners, where people pay for playrime or opay for extra loot boni in the shop. But ED has none of both. So you cnanot monetize this feature at all. and alos monetizing this is a horrible idea.

 

[Redomus]

If you take a step back and look at engineering from a distance there is really only one thing wrong with it: exaggeration.

The basic idea of engineers is good and was intended to:
- improve ship/weapon/module performance,
- add some randomness (in an attempt to avoid meta builds).
- increase the effort commanders had to put in to get it (aka grind).

They somehow ended up exaggerating each of those three points in a big way and many players were not happy with the result.

So in 3.0 Beyond, after many complaints, they removed the exaggeration of randomness. Unfortunately they were forced to increase the exaggeration of performance even more to get the grandfathered modules into the new system.

You might expect they would remove (some of) the unpopular grind too, but they increased the grind even more with the mandatory grade 1-5 progression and the material collection process.

Don't ask me why. I don't get it. Apparently FDEV don't think they are exaggerating. "If it's worth doing it's worth overdoing" they seem to say.

The 1-5 is really not a huge thing. I will give you an example of my typical 1-5 roll scenario on a fresh module.

G1 - 1 roll
G2 - 1 roll
G3 - 2 rolls
G4 - 2-3 rolls
G5 - 5-10 rolls

you will literally fly through 1-4 in less than a minute.

Protip: Collector limpet everything in a haz res.

 

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

The 1-5 is really not a huge thing. I will give you an example of my typical 1-5 roll scenario on a fresh module.

G1 - 1 roll
G2 - 1 roll
G3 - 2 rolls
G4 - 2-3 rolls
G5 - 5-10 rolls

you will literally fly through 1-4 in less than a minute.

Protip: Collector limpet everything in a haz res.

yeah if you ignore having to aquire the materials, thats true.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

The 1-5 is really not a huge thing. I will give you an example of my typical 1-5 roll scenario on a fresh module.

G1 - 1 roll
G2 - 1 roll
G3 - 2 rolls
G4 - 2-3 rolls
G5 - 5-10 rolls

you will literally fly through 1-4 in less than a minute.

Protip: Collector limpet everything in a haz res.

And that the material collection "grind" is pretty much the same as before or even less with material brokers and the increased storage.

 

[Komemiute]

But I agree with your statement

I'm in the same team as you two.

 

[Redomus]

yeah if you ignore having to aquire the materials, thats true.

Collecting materials is part of engineering - it was worse before, now we can choose them from missions and trade them in (ANNND G5's can now drop from npc's in res sites etc). Honestly I've been back on ED in the evenings since last sunday, 2-3 hours at a time and Im down to HRP's on my corvette left to convert. I've not put a huge timesink into it, and thats including flying the corvette to each engineer/collecting. 18ly jump range.

 

[Lucifera Danzig]

yeah if you ignore having to aquire the materials, thats true.

The stuff you need for those lower rolls are the super-common kind of things you need for lots of more common uses, like SRV refueling (Phosphorus and Sulfur), SRV repair and limpet synthesis (Iron and Nickle) etc. It's not adding that much time, when you would be collecting these things anyway.

 

[Taimaru]

For the record, I disagree with all of the OP's points and I agree with everyone that disagreed with the OP.

I am really liking the new engineering in 3.0 and it's encouraging me to do more of it. It's less time consuming than before and has a more positive outcome, therefore it is much more enjoyable.

 

[Crank Larson]

I'm in the same team as you two.

This sounds like the start of The Cranky Crew. All should cower and be afraid... Or... Well... Ok, as you were.

 

[Krieger]

The 1-5 is really not a huge thing. I will give you an example of my typical 1-5 roll scenario on a fresh module.

G1 - 1 roll
G2 - 1 roll
G3 - 2 rolls
G4 - 2-3 rolls
G5 - 5-10 rolls

you will literally fly through 1-4 in less than a minute.

Protip: Collector limpet everything in a haz res.

I was trying to point away from the details to the overall exaggeration of the engineers feature.

 

[Vorxian]

Engineering is just enchanting when you look at the grand scheme of things.
Atleast in WOW, you know that if you obtain xyz, you'll get abc.

BUT at least crafting in ED is way better than that RNG stuff in Path of Exile.... (the last time I was on PoE that is)

 

[rp198419]

Engineers are better than before but the G4-5 are horrible mat/time sinks.

I agree that there is still too much RNG on mat drops, particularly in USSs.

The material traders need a far more realistic exchange rate matrix. The current 6/1 (or even 36/1) ratios are crazy.

Just my opinion.