New wing missions encourage more co-op! Thank you!

[Red Fox Four]

Went ahead and teamed up with a friend yesterday to test the new coop missions.

We grabbed a relatively small one to find and bring 1800 units of Reactive Armor to the current station.

Since there were 2 of us we needed to bring 900 tonnes each. That means we had to pay for 900 units of reactive armor each. The actual profit then is the reward payout minus the credits spent on purchasing the 900 units.

Now this might be obvious to some; however, since the reward was the same for us both (about 6 million) this means if we had 4 people in the wing we would only need to bring 450 units each.

In other words:

The more players you have in your wing the less money each individual needs to spend on buying the required items to fill the quota for the mission. Yet the reward and payment is the same.

So the more players you have doing this the more profit you get from it.

What a great way to encourage more teamplay By working together everyone will have better profits

At this point I am actually considering buying a T9 and getting it cargo fitted to do more of these missions instead of relying on my Anaconda (which only carries 320T in current configuration) while a T9 could carry 500T-800T (depending on how much defense you want on it). With a group of T9's these missions could be done lickety-split and the profits would be pretty nice.

Anyone else tried these "Transport X amount of Y item to the Station" missions in a Wing yet?

 

[MikeMart]

Hey, I've done a lot of those missions with my wingmates and indeed it's a good way of making credits and having fun together...the cool part is that actually, anyone can deliver at his own pace. You can start the mission while someone is getting back from another system, or do your share and let the others end, etc... or you can do it right away in a wing of 4 and have a nice talk while making easy money. we haven't had to defend ourselves against pirate attacks yet.


Then I really like wing assassination missions too ! Two guys on the target, and two others slaying the escort....that's quite nice. The thing is it's always the same repetitive layout. One bad guy in a big ship and the 5 escort ships swarming around. It'd be nice to add some variety.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

There really is something for everyone in 3.0

 

[B1rdy]

Then I really like wing assassination missions too ! Two guys on the target, and two others slaying the escort....that's quite nice. The thing is it's always the same repetitive layout. One bad guy in a big ship and the 5 escort ships swarming around. It'd be nice to add some variety.

Yes, there is only about three scenarios, maybe the one with the Cutter as main target being the hardest, but overall the missions (including) cargo missions are too easy (for a wing). There should be more variety in terms of difficulty level.

 

[Red Fox Four]

Then I really like wing assassination missions too ! Two guys on the target, and two others slaying the escort....that's quite nice. The thing is it's always the same repetitive layout. One bad guy in a big ship and the 5 escort ships swarming around. It'd be nice to add some variety.

Doesn't the ship types vary though based on the mission payout? E.g. those with lower payout has smaller (easier) ships?

I have yet to try the wing assassination missions, but would be fun to try for sure.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Went ahead and teamed up with a friend yesterday to test the new coop missions.

We grabbed a relatively small one to find and bring 1800 units of Reactive Armor to the current station.

Since there were 2 of us we needed to bring 900 tonnes each. That means we had to pay for 900 units of reactive armor each. The actual profit then is the reward payout minus the credits spent on purchasing the 900 units.

Now this might be obvious to some; however, since the reward was the same for us both (about 6 million) this means if we had 4 people in the wing we would only need to bring 450 units each.

In other words:

The more players you have in your wing the less money each individual needs to spend on buying the required items to fill the quota for the mission. Yet the reward and payment is the same.

So the more players you have doing this the more profit you get from it.

What a great way to encourage more teamplay By working together everyone will have better profits

At this point I am actually considering buying a T9 and getting it cargo fitted to do more of these missions instead of relying on my Anaconda (which only carries 320T in current configuration) while a T9 could carry 500T-800T (depending on how much defense you want on it). With a group of T9's these missions could be done lickety-split and the profits would be pretty nice.

Anyone else tried these "Transport X amount of Y item to the Station" missions in a Wing yet?

i have no problems at all with wing missions but unlike you i DONT like the magic pay boosts just "because" you are in a wing. wing bonuses should be due to the fact you get through more missions in a shorter time so do more of them, with possible bonuses for time completion not, oh there are 4 of you so i will pay 4x the price. (i dont like it in bounty vouchers in a wing or magic pipps to our power distributor either) It saddens me that FD cant / wont think of ways to do these missions which are convincing rather than gamey.

glad you like them, and i have no issues with the principle of them, just the execution of them.

imo multiply payments by 4, add on time completion bonuses which start really tight and drop as you take longer to do it (but not binary, i would suggest 4 tiers of time bonus getting lower), and then split the mission payment between the number in your wing.


I have not done assassination missions yet in a wing, but again, imo it should be a set price divided among your wing.

 

[Adjuster666]

I too like the idea of Wing missions, but like Mad Mike don't like the, ooh there's 4 of you, here you go same full payment for each of you.

It's like working an 8 hour shift for $400 then finding out a collegue is job sharing with 3 other people but they get $400 each for doing just 2 hrs.

It just doesn't sit right with me as it not only over-rewards the wing but is a penalty if you do it alone.

 

[CMDR CPT. Boris]

I did cargo missions this week end with my friends, two of them were fairly new to the game.
I made them bought a t-6 to help and we all got a very nice amount of credits at the end

Very nice indeed

 

[B1rdy]

I have not done assassination missions yet in a wing, but again, imo it should be a set price divided among your wing.

If you did such a mission alone, the payment would be insane.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

If you did such a mission alone, the payment would be insane.

I am pie in the sky waxing lyrical now about what i would like as opposed to what we will ever have... however in an ideal world imo these missions would be practically impossible to do on your own (from the sounds of it, with my ships built as they are with certain "rules" combined with my, "above average if i am lucky but not amazing" skills they probably ARE already impossible for me to solo.

but would be cool if we could hire npc wingmen to help us out - who would take a cut of the mission - like in the DDF. that way wing missions would be for everyone and not the few have mates on at the right time to play with.***

***before i am accused of trying to take the game in a direction it was never meant to go, and that this is a MP game and so npcs are not needed, i would ask you look at the DDF archives (google DDA wingmen and also npc crew whilst you are at it)
feel free to disagree but understand i am just asking for one of the main triggers which caused me to go in fairly generously in backing the game.

 

[Red Fox Four]

i have no problems at all with wing missions but unlike you i DONT like the magic pay boosts just "because" you are in a wing. wing bonuses should be due to the fact you get through more missions in a shorter time so do more of them, with possible bonuses for time completion not, oh there are 4 of you so i will pay 4x the price. (i dont like it in bounty vouchers in a wing or magic pipps to our power distributor either) It saddens me that FD cant / wont think of ways to do these missions which are convincing rather than gamey.

glad you like them, and i have no issues with the principle of them, just the execution of them.

imo multiply payments by 4, add on time completion bonuses which start really tight and drop as you take longer to do it (but not binary, i would suggest 4 tiers of time bonus getting lower), and then split the mission payment between the number in your wing.


I have not done assassination missions yet in a wing, but again, imo it should be a set price divided among your wing.

Why not?

This is how bounties work anyways.

A ship is worth 200,000Cr in bounties? I shoot it once. You shoot it once. We both get 200,000Cr. It doesn't get split.

Also, in the mission I was using as example in the OP it really does encourage more teamwork when the cost of obtaining the items get spread out between each member of the wing.

If you need 1000 items @1500Cr per item you have to pay 1,500,000Cr just to obtain the items. If the mission reward is 2,000,000 then your profit is only 500,000Cr (Reward minus cost of items).

But if you have a friend with you then you only need to buy 500 items, thus your cost is only 750,000 and your mission profit is then 1,250,000Cr.
If you have 3 friends with you then you only need to buy 250 items, thus making the cost 375,000 and your mission profits is 1,625,000Cr.

So this design encourages bringing more friends to the party and working together rather than flying around doing your own solo missions.

Using the above numbers, 2,000,000 payout, 1500cr per unit, 1000T quota I graphed out how the cost vs reward looks based on how many players in the wing.

It looks like this:

(You may notice that the biggest difference is by simply adding 1 more person to your Wing, then (in the example used here) you get diminishing returns the more Wing members you add but overall increase the profits for everyone involved, assuming everyone buys an equal amount of items required to deliver.)

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

i am not questioning your maths.... everything you said is true.... My point is it does not make sense... it is fine if that does not bother you, i am not saying you are wrong... I was just commenting on why i personally dislike it, and tried to suggest how it could be made so it would still encourage co-op but would also not seem gamey to folk like me who do dislike magic boosts.

and i already admitted i preferred bounty splits like they used to be... and again, the encouragement to wing up should be by the game taking us to places where the there are more foes so we earn more money in a wing that way. again just imo i am not saying you are wrong.

(for instance, - true story! i had a washing machine delivered on sat... 2 people delivered it... i however did not have to pay them double the amount to deliver it just because there were 2 of them.

 

[thormadragon]

Went ahead and teamed up with a friend yesterday to test the new coop missions.

We grabbed a relatively small one to find and bring 1800 units of Reactive Armor to the current station.

Since there were 2 of us we needed to bring 900 tonnes each. That means we had to pay for 900 units of reactive armor each. The actual profit then is the reward payout minus the credits spent on purchasing the 900 units.

Now this might be obvious to some; however, since the reward was the same for us both (about 6 million) this means if we had 4 people in the wing we would only need to bring 450 units each.

In other words:

The more players you have in your wing the less money each individual needs to spend on buying the required items to fill the quota for the mission. Yet the reward and payment is the same.

So the more players you have doing this the more profit you get from it.

What a great way to encourage more teamplay By working together everyone will have better profits

At this point I am actually considering buying a T9 and getting it cargo fitted to do more of these missions instead of relying on my Anaconda (which only carries 320T in current configuration) while a T9 could carry 500T-800T (depending on how much defense you want on it). With a group of T9's these missions could be done lickety-split and the profits would be pretty nice.

Anyone else tried these "Transport X amount of Y item to the Station" missions in a Wing yet?

Indeed, friends and i relocated to HIP 21559 to fight thargoids, once we arrived we found the stations to offer awesome wing missions. So i sent for my T9 to do some transport missions, thus buffing the wallets of my friends who are quite fresh, enabling them to get Type 7s pretty soon. Coop gameplay is indeed encouraged by those missions, be it transport or assassinations, which are great fun too. It´s also a great way to teach newcomers the mechanics of wing interdictions etc... we had 1 guy in a combat ship training to stay close enough to drop with whoever gets interdicted. This stuff has been missing for too long tbh. In between missions we go kill some scouts, yesterday i introduced them to a cyclops, forgot how scary the EMP can be for new players... we survived and killed it, so yes... We are having a blast, thanks for this FD!

 

[uliando]

This is great for COOP play!

 

[Red Fox Four]

i am not questioning your maths.... everything you said is true.... My point is it does not make sense... it is fine if that does not bother you, i am not saying you are wrong... I was just commenting on why i personally dislike it, and tried to suggest how it could be made so it would still encourage co-op but would also not seem gamey to folk like me who do dislike magic boosts.

and i already admitted i preferred bounty splits like they used to be... and again, the encouragement to wing up should be by the game taking us to places where the there are more foes so we earn more money in a wing that way. again just imo i am not saying you are wrong.

I'm not 100% sure if this is the case* but you could possibly set up Wing missions like this (for the buy X amount of Y item and bring them to Z station).

(edit: the case being whether or not Wing missions are already designed so doing them solo would incur a loss for the player to prevent solo players doing wing based missions).

Reward: 19,000,000Cr
Items needed: 3,500
Cost per item: 6,500Cr

In this example it would cost a single player 3,500 * 6,500 = 22,750,000Cr to buy the items.
This means he would end up with a loss of 19,000,000 - 22,750,000 = -3,750,000Cr

However, adding in wing-members to help you change the profit (or loss rather) significantly.

 

[Speedcuffs]

I like the wing missions, good coop gameplay. I like doing them solo too.
Don't care about the money and payout 'realism', that stuff was broken a long time back.

 

[MikeMart]

I too like the idea of Wing missions, but like Mad Mike don't like the, ooh there's 4 of you, here you go same full payment for each of you.

It's like working an 8 hour shift for $400 then finding out a collegue is job sharing with 3 other people but they get $400 each for doing just 2 hrs.

It just doesn't sit right with me as it not only over-rewards the wing but is a penalty if you do it alone.

It's true but if you are flying with friends it's not an issue really... maybe it is in terms of balance cause it's easy money for beginners...

 

[Red Fox Four]

It's true but if you are flying with friends it's not an issue really... maybe it is in terms of balance cause it's easy money for beginners...

If each wing member didn't get the same payout then the payout would have to be combined into a common reward.

E.g. if the reward is 5,000,000Cr per wing member then it would have to be 20,000,000 total for the mission and it was then distributed out to each Wing member upon completion.

At the end of the day each wing member would still get 5,000,000Cr (if you have 4 people in a wing).

However, if you only have 2 people in a wing then suddenly the reward would be 10,000,000 per person instead of 5,000,000.

In other words, having the reward be a total which is then distributed to each player would DISCOURAGE team play and ENCOURAGE people doing those missions solo to get the max payout (20,000,000) and not sharing it with anyone.

In my opinion that would be detrimental to actual teamplay and simply encourage more lone-wolfing... and also make the regular solo-missions on the mission boards completely redundant since noone would do a boom-time delivery for 5,000,000Cr if they could instead do a Wing-based one for 20,000,000Cr.

With the current system you limit the max reward each player can get.

Furhtermore, with individual rewards you also allow for each player to choose if they want the cash, influence, materials or reputation as their primary reward from the mission.

 

[MikeMart]

If each wing member didn't get the same payout then the payout would have to be combined into a common reward.

E.g. if the reward is 5,000,000Cr per wing member then it would have to be 20,000,000 total for the mission and it was then distributed out to each Wing member upon completion.

At the end of the day each wing member would still get 5,000,000Cr (if you have 4 people in a wing).

However, if you only have 2 people in a wing then suddenly the reward would be 10,000,000 per person instead of 5,000,000.

In other words, having the reward be a total which is then distributed to each player would DISCOURAGE team play and ENCOURAGE people doing those missions solo to get the max payout (20,000,000) and not sharing it with anyone.
.

Very true...also I wonder why the reward couldn't be proportional to each member's rank? We could share the same mission for the same reward but each rank would add a multiplier for example... to be a little fairer.

 

[thormadragon]

From the 3.0.3. patch notes: "Balance pass on wing delivery missions"....
Oh noes! They won´t take the fun away from us, will they? I can already smell it, payout for delivering 2000t of whatever cut down form approx. 20 mill to 200k, if you´re flying a T9 well bad luck, you wont make profit, maybe even pay more than you get.
Oh don´t mind me, black day...