PvP Heat sinks/chaff in T9 vs Wing of three...uh...enemy ships.

[DukeIronHand]

Was traveling in my T9 enjoying life when I was interdicted by a wing of three other Cmdr’s - an FdL, FAS, and a Vulture obviously all Engineered up based on the fireworks show. Had a high wake destination already to go but I was at the rebuy screen before the timer even counted down...obviously!

Just a question. I threw out a heat sink and chaff hoping to buy myself a few seconds but nope.
All other issues aside am I wasting my time using a heatsink and chaff vs Cmdr’s?

 

[ALGOMATIC]

Was traveling in my T9 enjoying life when I was interdicted by a wing of three other Cmdr’s - an FdL, FAS, and a Vulture obviously all Engineered up based on the fireworks show. Had a high wake destination already to go but I was at the rebuy screen before the timer even counted down...obviously!

Just a question. I threw out a heat sink and chaff hoping to buy myself a few seconds but nope.
All other issues aside am I wasting my time using a heatsink and chaff vs Cmdr’s?

Yes, chaff and heat sinks are useless on a big ship.
It would be better if you had a proper shield and a few boosters. Prismatic even better.
Engineer the shield for thermal or reinforced (if prism), boosters for resistance.

 

[DukeIronHand]

Do have boosters but not boosted enough apparently!
Thanks!

 

[jasonbarron]

Well, almost any competent player killer is going to be running fixed weapons that don't care about chaff, and as Algomatic said the t9 is so big it's not like it really disappears when you pop the sink like a small ship does for a few seconds. I assume you submitted to the interdiction, right? If not, you should have. Now I'm going to tell you something that's going to sound crazy and un-intuitive but always turn into your attackers and boost over or under them as your fsd is spooling up; the very worst thing you can do is turn your back and try to out run them. That will never work unless you have the clear cut speed advantage, which you were not even close to having.

Also, I see people noting "I'm pretty sure they were fully engineered judging by the fireworks show" a lot, as if its some shocking revelation that the assailants are modded to the Nth degree, when the simple reality is this: they are all modded. Always. Without exception. Like, no one who PvP's is doing it without a fully modded in every way imaginable.

 

[DukeIronHand]

Okay. Learning points. Thank you.
I did submit to the interdiction after a couple of seconds of hoping to avoid it.
PvP’ers use fixed weapons: So even without a target lock (heat sink) on a big fat close range target like the T9 they hardly needed one. Makes sense and I didn’t think about it till now. Seems obvious in hindsight.
Turning toward the enemy: I did consider this but -
1) Serious damage and escape pod occurred real fast.
2) I really thought I would last the 8 seconds till HW.
3) Mass Lock. This thought flashed in my mind. Does ML only consider the largest ML ship or all three combined? Of course HW disregards ML. Funny the thought still flashed in my head.
4) I will admit a little “panic” as the 4 or 5 seconds of combat did not go as I had envisioned.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

PvPers use fixed weapons: So even without a target lock (heat sink) on a big fat close range target like the T9 they hardly needed one.

Other things to note:
- the T-9 is easily big enough to hit easily with gimballed weapons even when it's chaffing. Best the chaff will do is stop them picking which subsystem to shoot.
- the Emissive special effect makes heat sinks basically useless for stealth once they've landed a single hit with it

So for pure defence, you can replace both with shield boosters very safely.

3) Mass Lock. This thought flashed in my mind. Does ML only consider the largest ML ship or all three combined? Of course HW disregards ML. Funny the thought still flashed in my head.

Largest ship only.

 

[DukeIronHand]

Thanks. Hopefully I will be more successful next time.

 

[Rob_the_Sparky]

Probably not in a T9 versus a engineered wing of PvP players, not unless you seriously compromise your cargo carrying capacity. Maybe choose to fly something more defendable in an area likely to attract players.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

Probably not in a T9 versus a engineered wing of PvP players, not unless you seriously compromise your cargo carrying capacity. Maybe choose to fly something more defendable in an area likely to attract players.

Putting a shield generator is not sacrificing cargo space. I can fly my T7 with 250t csrgo and never be killed because of proper outfitting.

 

[jasonbarron]

Okay. Learning points. Thank you.
I did submit to the interdiction after a couple of seconds of hoping to avoid it.
PvP’ers use fixed weapons: So even without a target lock (heat sink) on a big fat close range target like the T9 they hardly needed one. Makes sense and I didn’t think about it till now. Seems obvious in hindsight.
Turning toward the enemy: I did consider this but -
1) Serious damage and escape pod occurred real fast.
2) I really thought I would last the 8 seconds till HW.
3) Mass Lock. This thought flashed in my mind. Does ML only consider the largest ML ship or all three combined? Of course HW disregards ML. Funny the thought still flashed in my head.
4) I will admit a little “panic” as the 4 or 5 seconds of combat did not go as I had envisioned.

There is no shame in freezing up, Duke. In fact, I have a lot of respect for you putting this out here for discussion and candidly asking for advice. It's the most natural thing in the world to try and run from an aggressor. When you get pulled, the fireworks start and your getting all of this crazy, noisy input both aurally and visually, an overwhelming array of sensory input that basically short circuits your brain and triggers the fight or flight instinct. It takes a while to get used to that, so don't feel incompetent or anything. PvPers are used to it because they spend almost every play session "under fire" from engineered weapons & special effects and they're accustomed to all the sounds and sights that accompany combat; some of these guys/gals have pvp engagements that number in the tens of thousands so it's just reflex for them.

 

[StiTch]

There is no shame in freezing up, Duke. In fact, I have a lot of respect for you putting this out here for discussion and candidly asking for advice. It's the most natural thing in the world to try and run from an aggressor. When you get pulled, the fireworks start and your getting all of this crazy, noisy input both aurally and visually, an overwhelming array of sensory input that basically short circuits your brain and triggers the fight or flight instinct. It takes a while to get used to that, so don't feel incompetent or anything. PvPers are used to it because they spend almost every play session "under fire" from engineered weapons & special effects and they're accustomed to all the sounds and sights that accompany combat; some of these guys/gals have pvp engagements that number in the tens of thousands so it's just reflex for them.

I know of pirates that specifically use "poor" weapon setups just because it allows them to put every effect on conceivable, meaning if they fire on a mark that tries to run, said target will be bombarded with every panic message under the sun from their COVAS. True fear tactics for a pirate if ya ask me

Yeah, it happens OP - and I'll hold my hands up and say it still happens to me on occasion. Not out of fear per se but because in a good fight my brain will think up 3 or 4 potential paths to take, and instead of choosing one, I sit there for a moment like a turd re-processing all the info in front of me. Usually happens in something like my FGS which is relatively fragile, is likely to take hull/module damage, and has things like fighters to take care of. I don't think I've ever had said freeze in my cutter.

The best thing you can do, and I know it sounds a tad corny, is to get a little experience. Find a couple of folk you like and have a few sparring games, or better join up with the GCI, and lose that initial fear of engagement with another CMDR. Follow JB's advice above, get versed in correct escape technique, and soon you'll be laughing that an interdiction ever concerned you.

The other thing is to remember that almost any ship can be made semi-bulky. Feel free to upload your loadout and I'll offer any advice I can.

 

[John J. Aubrey]

I think only reason to have heat sinks on a T-9 is for fuel scooping, when you absolutely need to fill 'er up.

 

[Martind Forlon]

Hi OP, you may want also think about put three medium rapid mine launchers with some nice specials (like radian canister, Ion disruptor and Reverberating Cascade) on your ship. All you want, when encounter group of attackers, is get few more seconds to allows you escape (H-wake).

Note: small HPoints are on T9 front, there is not good put mines.

 

[Mr_sukebe]

OP, a few thoughts/options:
- Using a T9 in open is just asking for trouble. Poor shields, slow and a massive target. Consider joining a private group if you insist on flying a T9
- Don't try fighting. Doesn't matter what you use if you're being jumped by 3 in-game sociopaths, chances are that you're in trouble. Anything that could genuinely fight all three is probably not capable of killing any of them, as any smart griefer will run once damaged whilst his wing mates take his position, so fighting against any vaguely smart ones is a losers game.
- If you're dedicated to Open (and there's nothing wrong with that), grab yourself a better transport ship. My personal view is that anything genuinely capable of being a decent transport is too compromised for most PvP as dedicated PvP players should have a massive advantage in their HRPs and similar taking up cargo space. So my personal view is to ditch the weapons such that you can use a smaller PP and up your jump range. Look for something with good shields to give you time to run. No idea of your funds, but if you can, a Python for smaller pads, Cutter and/or Conda otherwise. As an example, just redone my Conda for transport and it's hauling over 400 tons with 1800+ shields.

 

[StiTch]

OP, a few thoughts/options:
- Using a T9 in open is just asking for trouble. Poor shields, slow and a massive target. Consider joining a private group if you insist on flying a T9

This isn't necessarily true at all - it simply means making a concession for survivability. What is not appropriate in Open is the cliche maximums profitz T9 with all cargo (perhaps one lowest class possible shield), no HRPs/MRPs, D-rated everything and no utilities to save mass.

You gotta make that ship bulky, because against an attacker, it IS gonna get hit.

 

[DukeIronHand]

I think the 9 could survive in Open. It just has to last 8 seconds (10?) to HW.
Add huge shields, boosters, MRP’s and/or HRP’s and (not being familiar with Engineered weapons) I have to believe I would last that long. Otherwise Open is for PvP only.
Only question is the “cargo capacity vs survivability” equation which is decided in the heat of experience.

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

I regularly trade in open with my T9.

Military grade composites
Thermal resist 5A prismatic
~600mj/2200 hull integrity
Reinforced 7B drives. 300+ integrity.
4A SCB
2 boosters
Point defense
Heat sink
3D hull reinforcement.

If I'm really expecting trouble, I'll run with a secondary size 4 bank, and a module reinforcement package in one of the smaller slots.

Full pips to shields. Dump both 4A banks immediately, assuming multiple attackers, and get out.

Edit to add: Before the cargo buff, I was hauling a respectable 500+

Now I generally carry 732, maybe 700 if I expect things could get rough.

 

[John J. Aubrey]

I fly my T-9 in Open, specifically to haul stuff for my PP faction. I am rarely vulnerable to a coordinated attack except for those 200 odd LS in SC to get to HQ when returning. Otherwise it's just an occasional pirate or PP NPC, and I can easily escape them via a HW. We have pretty good situational awareness on who may or may not be prowling our system, so I know whether or not its relatively safe to back haul cargo. With that kind of cargo space it can obviously be quite valuable. If it seems even slightly sketchy, then I come back to HQ empty and risk a rather small rebuy (for an experienced player). I enjoy flying the T-9. It demands different piloting skills in all phases of flight than any other ship I've flown. More than anything else about ED, I just love flying my space ships.

 

[Powderpanic]

OP, you had the first bit right about highwaking. Seeing as how OP Highwake is, your only issue is your terrible ship build.

Replace the C6 Cargo with a Reinforced Prismatic Shield and 4 Heavy duty boosters. You will be running over 1000MJ of shield.
Put 4 pips to shields and leisurely wake out.

Only way a wing would get you in time, is if they have a grom and you are a little slow in the waking

Powderpanic
The Voice of Griefing

 

[DukeIronHand]

Thanks for the ship suggestions.
I knew my build wasn’t PvP’er proof as I normally don’t play in Open but this was kind of a test of my internet connection and Open in a system with a known player presence. Saw them coming in my scanner and was a bit late in pushing the jump button. FWIW, after rebuy. I flew at them again and was much quicker on the jump button when they turned toward me and got away.
My destruction is entirely my fault on multiple fronts but it was all very interesting nontheless.