The White-knight Paradox: The fear of consequences.
- Thread starter Cmdr Lucca1985
- Start date
Not sure why you would think anybody could fear losing any credits, the game is going on for a long time now and has seen many credit exploits and nobody using credit exploits has ever had credits taken away from them. Any player whos around longer knows theres nothing to fear there as FD has a pretty clear track record in that regard.
Credit income is a progression system, as such it needs a balance otherwise theres no point in having credits in the first place. Theres a discussion to be had where that balance should be but thinking it shouldn't be 100-300 mil an hour is a valid viewpoint to have if some people want to accept that or not. Doesn't mean people are some horrible whiteknights or whatever fancy word we use to discredit people.
But most of all its a communication problem, either because people don't want or can't properly communicate (and yes, that exist on both sides). Way too much hyperbole going on where you just can't have a discussion.
Credit income is a progression system, as such it needs a balance otherwise theres no point in having credits in the first place. Theres a discussion to be had where that balance should be but thinking it shouldn't be 100-300 mil an hour is a valid viewpoint to have if some people want to accept that or not. Doesn't mean people are some horrible whiteknights or whatever fancy word we use to discredit people.
But most of all its a communication problem, either because people don't want or can't properly communicate (and yes, that exist on both sides). Way too much hyperbole going on where you just can't have a discussion.
I'm in the middle
I'll praise what I love about the game, but I'm also happy to point out where things need to be improved.
Some people are good at pointing these things out in a way where you think "yeah that guys right, that is a problem, well spotted that guy", whereas other people are not so good at pointing these things out and just rant and go way over the top, taking one minor issue and blowing it up out of all proportion, in those instances people will react by defending the game.
Usually, people have pretty good arguments to make, positive or negative, but we're not all experts at communication. The whole white knights/haters thing is just reactions to someone else going off the rails in one direction or the other.
One good thing though, no matter how salty things get on here, I've never seen actual vindictive bullying or nastiness (though criticism of the devs can get a bit close to the bone at times), we might all scream and fight but compared to a lot of other forums I'm on, this one isn't as bad as we might think.
The other thing is, ED has this weird age range of playersa lot more middle aged people than other games, and that sometimes causes a conflict between older players that have a certain way of speaking or approaching things, and younger players that are sometimes more used to forum chatter, the two sometimes clash in humorously failed ways, but can be funny to read if nothing else
Pretty much the same. I love the stuff that I love, & love it even more post-3.0, but there is still a fair amount I think can be improved.....but have hope they will do so during the Beyond Season. I have seen mention that Chapters 2 & 3 will feature Mission improvements, & so I'm hoping for overhauls on par with what we got to missions in 2.1. Something that will make the whole mission system gel a lot better, from beginning to end.
Not necessarily, I often "white knight" as some people put it, because some posters
- state their opinion as fact
- unfairly criticise / slag off FD
- offer no alternatives/suggestions with their concerns
- want to morph the game into something totally different
- state things like "surely it's not that hard, it's just a few lines of code!"
- endlessly complain that they want it NOW or they only have X hours / week to play, so why should they wait
- have their facts wrong
- etc
IMO
- Is Elite perfect? No
- Does it miss a lot of the features that makes MMOs great (BGs, Raids, Player alliances, "proper" group missions etc)? - Yes
- Is the game significantly better than what it was on release? - YES
- Is the game going to get better over the next few months/years? - Yes, Yes, YES
It never crossed my mind that FD would even consider doing a hard reset. The "grind" isn't half bad as people make out.
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Bugs are cool and they'll still be here long after the human race has gone the way of the dodo; you just leave those little fellas alone.
verminstar
Banned
The white knight paradox is why I stopped being a forum regular and became an occasional, casual forumite...or something. Im just fed up reading it on thread after thread...telling us all how hard it was back in the day when they were nippers and we dont know how easy we have it...really Im sick and tired of seeing that.
Fear of consequences? Thats why if one found a cash exploit, one would not tell anyone least of all this forum as the consequences would be nerf demands...thats not fear, its defiance.
Do I care about their judgement of me? Does my tone indicate Im someone who cares?
Fear of consequences? Thats why if one found a cash exploit, one would not tell anyone least of all this forum as the consequences would be nerf demands...thats not fear, its defiance.
Do I care about their judgement of me? Does my tone indicate Im someone who cares?
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In truth - it does.
verminstar
Banned
So yer saying I do care what others like you think about how I play? Ye flatter yerself...I really dont ^
Personally, I just can't expect a game developer to be perfect, when I'm not. I'm old. I've had a number of jobs in my life. Some more important than others. I have never managed, even when I worked in a hospital's lab, to be perfect. No one is, nor can be. This is evidenced by the language of quality control, and systems that are put in place to protect against imperfection. I was a QA manager for a manufacturing company for some time as well.
I carry this understanding into everything in life. Especially entertainment. I have my causes within E|D, but I try never to forget that it's real people putting this game together, and they want to bring us as good an experience as possible. If for one moment you start to believe otherwise, you have lost the script.
FD go to great lengths to engage their players. We see this, and we want to have influence over the game's evolution. Especially in the face of differing opinions. This in turn breeds some strong, and sometimes emotional, responses. As if the more forceful the commentary, the more weight it will have with the Dev's.
Even just attempting to point this out will get you labeled, because placing a label on something, is the first step in trying to dismiss it. In the end I trust FD to filter this stuffs out. They are professionals, and certainly expect these kinds of reactions. The trust I place in FD has been well founded, and well rewarded over the course of E|D's development.
I still take some pleasure in pointing out some poster's foibles, but I don't really worry about a Rant's effect on the game. If I can so easily recognize one, I'n certain FD can as well.
I carry this understanding into everything in life. Especially entertainment. I have my causes within E|D, but I try never to forget that it's real people putting this game together, and they want to bring us as good an experience as possible. If for one moment you start to believe otherwise, you have lost the script.
FD go to great lengths to engage their players. We see this, and we want to have influence over the game's evolution. Especially in the face of differing opinions. This in turn breeds some strong, and sometimes emotional, responses. As if the more forceful the commentary, the more weight it will have with the Dev's.
Even just attempting to point this out will get you labeled, because placing a label on something, is the first step in trying to dismiss it. In the end I trust FD to filter this stuffs out. They are professionals, and certainly expect these kinds of reactions. The trust I place in FD has been well founded, and well rewarded over the course of E|D's development.
I still take some pleasure in pointing out some poster's foibles, but I don't really worry about a Rant's effect on the game. If I can so easily recognize one, I'n certain FD can as well.
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*looks around*
So this is the White Knight gathering? I see almost everybody is already there. Where are the drinks and the snacks?
*grabs a drink and some food and inconspicuously goes out of the door*
So this is the White Knight gathering? I see almost everybody is already there. Where are the drinks and the snacks?
*grabs a drink and some food and inconspicuously goes out of the door*
"Git Gud"
"Working as intended"
"Trigger Control"
"Situational awareness"
All used to shut down debate.
IMO not enough moderation.
"Working as intended"
"Trigger Control"
"Situational awareness"
All used to shut down debate.
IMO not enough moderation.
Will there be vol au vents?
You know, I hardly ever see that. What I do see a lot is people saying they are seeing that.
It seems when you disagree about the existence of exploits in the game, what you write is completely irrelevant. It seems it's easier to ignore what is written in favour of portraying those sentiments as we see in this thread.
2 things.
Again, when speaking one's mind about not wanting exploits in the game, that's not a demand for nerfing. It's voicing an opinion on a discussion board.
The only one you can hold responsible for nerfing features is Frontier. If you have an issue with that, you do not address those who happen to agree with the decision that Frontier takes, but the one that takes the decision.
Best way to moderate weak comments like that is to use the mute button.
I tend to use if for those who seem to have nothing to add to a discussion rather than using it on those I dont agree with.
There is a legit problem behind the botting thing, but as I said to the OP of that thread it's been presented very badly. As in more harm than good counterproductive probably increasing the amount of botting sort of badly. So that's probably the worst example of the lot.
Take the mode whinging as a more sweeping general example, everyone who bothered to read a little knows about the modes, knows they won't be changing and knows they are all tied into just one BGS and knew it before buying. Yet we've had constant meltdowns about it for four years straight with no let up. They haven't got a legit complaint, they are never going to get anywhere with their demands, it pops up constantly in unrelated threads and lacking arguments they resort to name calling. I'm so sick of hearing it the only reply to all that rubbish I can summon up any more is "I don't like 3rd person games, so I check before I buy. You should do the same for your gaming preferences" but what I'm thinking is "shut up thicko".
Legit issues get buried under a mountain of rubbish.
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Situational awareness and trigger control are important and really help to minimize problems while making things more interesting (to me at least).
I agree that "git gud" and very often "working as intended" are just used as ways to avoid discussions about a topic.
stormyuk
Volunteer Moderator
To be honest its not the moderation teams job to moderate opinion, we moderate things that break the rules.
Some of the bugs in this game drive me insane and I am happy to talk about them and happy to debate them as I can complain as good as the next man or woman. A good percentage of what is posted on these forums is opinion. If FDev get things wrong in my opinion, I will say so too.
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verminstar
Banned
Like I said last week and the week before, Im blaming players as much as frontier equally...that being why I just cant be bothered anymore and just browse through cos its the same tired old routines everytime...and the same tired old faces all telling us we having fun wrong.
As fer addressing frontier, well that would need some form of communication...not one of their strongest attributes is it?
Whatever...I still stand by every single word I wrote and if thats a problem...well then its not my problem ^
If you look at the front page of dangerous discussion, you'll see three little frontier "staff post" symbols, of those three only one is from a dev the others are the community manager telling people to use bug reports not whinging to get their information across to FDEV.
FDEV are not reading all this because there's almost nothing worth knowing here, and the things that are worth listening to are drowned out by constant background whining.
They should rename dangerous discussion the moan zone.
