Elite has Grown Beyond its Capacity. Is it time for a new Elite game?
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I wonder if it's not so much about spaghetti, but more about quantum entanglement.
The way ED is interconnected, it ultimately changes a plethora of stuff that is directly, indirectly and tree connected in some fashion.
Take something simple... ok I say simple. but... you know what I mean... We take something like fixing the way an asteroid potato spins... Indirectly, you're changing the rate of which a pulse lazer fires, you're changing the yaw on a courier, you're quadrupling the size of the SOL sun, and you're turning Aisling Duval hair brown.
There's no easy way around it. People just don't understand that modifying the spin on a rocky potato can have so many side effects. Making the initial change is easy enough, it's correcting all the connecting code tree that is the monster task.
Just don't ask for engineer materials to get a reduction. The last time it happened, 200,000,000 more black holes appeared at the galactic core.
The way ED is interconnected, it ultimately changes a plethora of stuff that is directly, indirectly and tree connected in some fashion.
Take something simple... ok I say simple. but... you know what I mean... We take something like fixing the way an asteroid potato spins... Indirectly, you're changing the rate of which a pulse lazer fires, you're changing the yaw on a courier, you're quadrupling the size of the SOL sun, and you're turning Aisling Duval hair brown.
There's no easy way around it. People just don't understand that modifying the spin on a rocky potato can have so many side effects. Making the initial change is easy enough, it's correcting all the connecting code tree that is the monster task.
Just don't ask for engineer materials to get a reduction. The last time it happened, 200,000,000 more black holes appeared at the galactic core.
Yes, I love the game but I spend a fair amount of time imagining what I would do with the framework that they’ve created, thinking about the challenges that they face and how one might overcome them etc. ED has been one of the most thought-provoking and inspiring games I’ve ever played.
Being a software developer i have trouble with E:
They fix bugs. They make a minor update. The same bugs are reappearing...
This should not happen. And it can easily prevented by doing software development RIGHT.
Many irritating issues in the game lead me to the opinion that that basic software for the game mechanic is in a terrible state. Some problems that we see are nearly "impossible" when the base software is well made.
* Bounties appearing and disappearing "randomly" - making it impossible to pay them at IFC as they simple has been gone (i had this in 3.0.2).
* Galaxy map shows wrong system states (and security etc.) - noticed this in 2.xx.
* Updates of player status only appears after a hyperjump (e.g. CG participation).
* Mission target sometimes do not spawn.
* General BGS problems (see the BGS thread in this forum).
* Rank-Increase mission updates lost (seems to be fixed now - until the next patch?).
* AI-Player are cheating...
* Unbalanced mission payouts (Passengers, sothis/ceos etc.).
* Mission stacking - has been a design problem of the game (and possibly is back again in wing missions?).
And many more.
In fact: The part of FD that handles the graphics, physics and sound have made a really great job. But whoever did the actual game mechanics did not. I think this part of the game - not much more than a huge database with some really simple logic - should be rewritten completely. There are not only "technical" issues - but the concept is weak - if any concept exists. FD has to write down how things SHOULD work. How is the BGS expected to work? PowerPlay? Player ranking and reputation? Crime? Bounties? This has to be DESIGNED from scratch - and then implemented in software. The software part is not that hard to do. In fact it is quite simple.
I think things have been grown way above the first concept of the game - and trying to integrate new ideas in a code basis that is "old" sometimes is really hard. Throw it away and just start again FD. Should cost you less manpower than constantly fixing bugs that reappear after a couple of weeks...
Ciao, Udo
:They fix bugs. They make a minor update. The same bugs are reappearing...
This should not happen. And it can easily prevented by doing software development RIGHT.
Many irritating issues in the game lead me to the opinion that that basic software for the game mechanic is in a terrible state. Some problems that we see are nearly "impossible" when the base software is well made.
* Bounties appearing and disappearing "randomly" - making it impossible to pay them at IFC as they simple has been gone (i had this in 3.0.2).
* Galaxy map shows wrong system states (and security etc.) - noticed this in 2.xx.
* Updates of player status only appears after a hyperjump (e.g. CG participation).
* Mission target sometimes do not spawn.
* General BGS problems (see the BGS thread in this forum).
* Rank-Increase mission updates lost (seems to be fixed now - until the next patch?).
* AI-Player are cheating...
* Unbalanced mission payouts (Passengers, sothis/ceos etc.).
* Mission stacking - has been a design problem of the game (and possibly is back again in wing missions?).
And many more.
In fact: The part of FD that handles the graphics, physics and sound have made a really great job. But whoever did the actual game mechanics did not. I think this part of the game - not much more than a huge database with some really simple logic - should be rewritten completely. There are not only "technical" issues - but the concept is weak - if any concept exists. FD has to write down how things SHOULD work. How is the BGS expected to work? PowerPlay? Player ranking and reputation? Crime? Bounties? This has to be DESIGNED from scratch - and then implemented in software. The software part is not that hard to do. In fact it is quite simple.
I think things have been grown way above the first concept of the game - and trying to integrate new ideas in a code basis that is "old" sometimes is really hard. Throw it away and just start again FD. Should cost you less manpower than constantly fixing bugs that reappear after a couple of weeks...
Ciao, Udo
private groups were inspirational??
A pretty obvious choice if you ask me and certainly in no way "inspried" and neither is it original.
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The main ingredient missing from ED is "Ian Bell"
I like the way everyone seems to forget that ED was his creation as well.
Because it's still in development. Do you really think FDev would fix the bugs if they were finished with the game now and making no more money on it?
![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
choice of wording aside, and regardless of if others have done it..... PGs have been the way I have enjoyed the game.. and without it i would barely be playing any more.
As both he AND DB were childhood heroes of mine for making Elite, i will never forget or not appreciate him... but he had nothing to do with Frontier or 1st encounters.
DB & FD know what makes a brilliant space game just look in the ddf. the question is do they have the time, money and talent to make that game? I hope so.
my understanding is Ian Bell*** lost interest in making videogames before they "drifted apart"
so I dont think there was ever a chance of ian bell being a part of subsequent elite games after the 1st one.*** to any younguns here just to spell out, Ian Bell of elite is not Ian Bell of Slightly Mad Studios....
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That simply isn't true - mosy people left the game only weeks after getting it and there's been complaints before the game was released. The problem is that FDev didn't listen to the "moaners" which is why we have the state we do today.
Speaking as someone that touched on programming, that's...pretty much all coding more than a page long.
"Spaghetti code" refers to poorly written code that is disorganised, poorly structured, and often features a lack of commentary. It's derogatory, much like the term "script kiddie".
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you say that like the "moaners" are a united front all singing from the same hymn sheet. That simply is not the case.
"We" want an Open only online offline game with more private groups with a PvP flag which can be on or off, in a forced PvP game with no player combat, with a really plausible crime and punishment but with no consequences or punishment. We would have a much more realistic economy where money earnign is plausible but would allow us to earn enough money for any ship in the game to be lost at will within a few hrs of game time.
the ai would be really challenging, something to get the cmdrs hearts pounding but will also be really easy enabling us to blow them up by the dozen.
the game would be built around MP and guild content but with no priority put on guild content or MP play and engineers will be like typical enchanters in an MMO whilst being completely scientific in nature. ED should be a pick up and play game that casual gamers will "get" right away and also a complex space simulator that takes years to master.
i hope you catch my drift.......
Speaking as a PvP player, and given players almost constantly refer to PvP as "the vocal minority", I can unequivocally state this is bull dung.
choice of wording aside, and regardless of if others have done it..... PGs have been the way I have enjoyed the game.. and without it i would barely be playing any more.
As both he AND DB were childhood heroes of mine for making Elite, i will never forget or not appreciate him... but he had nothing to do with Frontier or 1st encounters.
DB & FD know what makes a brilliant space game just look in the ddf. the question is do they have the time, money and talent to make that game? I hope so.
my understanding is Ian Bell*** lost interest in making videogames before they "drifted apart"
*** to any younguns here just to spell out, Ian Bell of elite is not Ian Bell of Slightly Mad Studios....
The DDF was a collaboration of players and dev team was it not? As for Braben making great games, FE2 was really good but anyone who thought Piracy was spot on 2 years ago simply has lost touch. He might have made a good game or 2 a few decades ago but ED in it's current state doesn't really pass as a game that would cut the mustard a decade ago.
Old mechanics from 30 years ago don't work in todays era which is why nobody is playing Spectrum 48k games anymore.
No. The original Elite was his and David Braben's creation. Since then, he's had nothing to do with it (by his choice, as far as I am aware). To suggest that Ian Bell has anything to do with, or even any interest in E: D is simply rubbish.
Only from a poor developer (and there are far too many of these in the developer pool).
Exactly that. Spaghetti code is bad code. You can get it in small applications or large ones. But you can also have well written applications with thousands of lines of code - none of which is spaghetti.
<whistles to himself with shightly embarrassed look on his face>
honestly i have put more hrs into thes 2 games in the last 12 months than in most of my other games apart from elite dangerous.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/X6q_p2ma7x0/hqdefault.jpg
https://r.mprd.se/Atari 7800/Screenshots/Hat_Trick_1.png
as for the DDF, there was some collaboration with a very small set of backers but the vast majority of it was on FD....
you say that like the "moaners" are a united front all singing from the same hymn sheet. That simply is not the case.
"We" want an Open only online offline game with more private groups with a PvP flag which can be on or off, in a forced PvP game with no player combat, with a really plausible crime and punishment but with no consequences or punishment. We would have a much more realistic economy where money earnign is plausible but would allow us to earn enough money for any ship in the game to be lost at will within a few hrs of game time.
the ai would be really challenging, something to get the cmdrs hearts pounding but will also be really easy enabling us to blow them up by the dozen.
the game would be built around MP and guild content but with no priority put on guild content or MP play and engineers will be like typical enchanters in an MMO whilst being completely scientific in nature. ED should be a pick up and play game that casual gamers will "get" right away and also a complex space simulator that takes years to master.
i hope you catch my drift.......
I was talking about the constant criticism from day one which is "lack of content" (in fact, before day 1 in gamma I believe people were pointing this out). Obviously everyone has a complaint about some things but practically all the major issues boil down to shallow gameplay.
If FDev had listened and we actually had deeper missions and exploration and mining do you think many people would be complaining?
Maybe you should try reading my posts before replying to them.
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