Other games with PvP vs PvE conflict

Hi, I would like some help for some research I am doing. This is not meant to be a discussion about PvP/PvE, I would simply like to have some pointers.

Can someone think of games where the same kind of split between PvP and PvE in the community occurs (with the associated phenomena of griefing and “care bearing”)?

I am thinking of games, like Elite, not primarily designed to be competitive, but that are sandbox-y enough to allow different play styles (so for ex. not stuff like PUBG, or other games where the whole point is to kill each other).

Thanks.
 
Hi, I would like some help for some research I am doing. This is not meant to be a discussion about PvP/PvE, I would simply like to have some pointers.

Can someone think of games where the same kind of split between PvP and PvE in the community occurs (with the associated phenomena of griefing and “care bearing”)?

I am thinking of games, like Elite, not primarily designed to be competitive, but that are sandbox-y enough to allow different play styles (so for ex. not stuff like PUBG, or other games where the whole point is to kill each other).

Thanks.

Can't think of any that throw the different kinds together. The ones I know either had dedicated servers for PvE and PvP or used some kind of flagging.
 

Deleted member 110222

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Admittedly, I've not played the beta, but perhaps Sea Of Thieves?

Hopefully someone better informed can chip in.
 
While not a sandbox game and probably doesn't fit with what you're looking for — Elder Scrolls Online's PvP map (Cyrodiil) is filled with PvE areas like NPC towns and dungeons, where players can take quests and fight dungeon bosses.

The map itself is a conquest style PvP warzone, where three factions fight each other for map control — so you can find yourself having to take PvE quests behind enemy lines.

I've never noticed the same level of drama that Elite's PvP vs. PvE envokes, not even close.
But it can be very frustrating for anyone pursuing the quests, skillpoint powerups and achievements in the area — especially when they get steamrolled by a large group of dedicated PvP'ers that were simply moving from one objective to the other.

It's an odd mix for sure.
 
Hi, I would like some help for some research I am doing. This is not meant to be a discussion about PvP/PvE, I would simply like to have some pointers.

Can someone think of games where the same kind of split between PvP and PvE in the community occurs (with the associated phenomena of griefing and “care bearing”)?

I am thinking of games, like Elite, not primarily designed to be competitive, but that are sandbox-y enough to allow different play styles (so for ex. not stuff like PUBG, or other games where the whole point is to kill each other).

Thanks.

I think its unique to ED and Frontier.
 
Well, I didn't want to mention it in my first post, but is this something that Elite and EVE actually have in common? And if so, what is it that makes them unique? The vastness of the map/universe? The varieties of gameplay? Does anyone have any experience with PvP vs PvE in Star Citizen?
 
Freelancer by Microsoft was a single player offline (PvE) and connecting to servers a multiplayer online (PvP) game. It also came with the server-side software to operate your own. It also had 10 hrs of missions with cut-screens and celebrity voices. I cannot remember if a player could upgrade a ship in PvE Then fly it in PvP. Probably not.

ED is unique in that both PvE and PvP are connected to the same servers and effect the BGS. I'm not aware of any other game that does this.

Note that Freelancer Servers are still online and a just a few are active. Still not bad for a game released in 2000. Let's see if ED can last that long.
Freelancer.jpg
 
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Hi, I would like some help for some research I am doing. This is not meant to be a discussion about PvP/PvE, I would simply like to have some pointers.

Can someone think of games where the same kind of split between PvP and PvE in the community occurs (with the associated phenomena of griefing and “care bearing”)?

I am thinking of games, like Elite, not primarily designed to be competitive, but that are sandbox-y enough to allow different play styles (so for ex. not stuff like PUBG, or other games where the whole point is to kill each other).

Thanks.

Quite frankly, after the Ultima Online debacle, most game developers aren't willing to touch an open-world PvE game, with non-optional PvP, with a 10' pole. Shadowbane and Darkfall are the two games I most remember, primarily because after an initial burst of enthusiasm when they were first released, it didn't take long for them to start to hemorrhage players. I'm sure there were others, but those were the only two that were on my radar long enough to actually give them a try. Most games either went with the PvP switch route, or PvP servers, like Dark Age of Camelot's Mordred server.
 
The Arma community is split between PVP and PVE modes. Perhaps something to look into. I know it is not quite what you were asking. DayZ has a PVE community with limited PVP.
 
Does anyone have any experience with PvP vs PvE in Star Citizen?

The tone of this thread should be familiar.

Although Star Citizen at this point seems more PVP friendly.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/.../3/thread/pvp-in-3-0-1-is-stealing-real-money


Way back when the DayZ mod first came out, there were quite a few people who wanted it to be a co-op player vs zombie game. They also really got overwhelmed by the PVP players.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dayz/comments/1b7vys/what_is_the_mindset_behind_kill_on_sight/

DayZ even had a Fuel Rats like group that would go out and rescue people with broken legs. In the mod that was horrible because you had to crawl somewhere. If I remember right it was not easy to kill yourself. So you could be stuck crawling for an hour.
 
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Dark Souls ;)

Good call, probably one of the better cases around.

For the unfamiliar, while the DS series comes with an offline option that prevents PvP invasions, it also prevents you from summoning your friends to play in co-op. So the co-op PvE comes at the price of unwanted PvP being a possibility. In fact, the way it works in DS3, co-op is even a magnet for PvP as invaders are sent in priority into worlds with multiple players. This also has an effect on the invading PvP players that complain about always being matched against 2 to 4 players. Add to that the fact that there's nothing preventing the gift of endgame gear to low level players or preventing a low level player to summon his high-level friends in co-op and the entire matchmaking is an utterly broken savage mess that causes no amount of rage. Another classic is the "gank squads" where 4 full-pvp built players group up together in co-op in order to gang up on the inevitable invaders that will be matched alone against them (additional invaders would also be matched over time, but the first one would need to survive long enough to enjoy the help). A reverse situation is with a guy summoning 3 friends as hostiles (there's a sign you can leave to be summoned as a hostile party, which makes for convenient dueling), while wearing an item that summons other players as "blue" helpers automatically. The second the Blue appears, he gets ganked by the hostiles without any help from the complicit host.

While it can be hilarious, the forced PvP if you want to PvE with your friends, the broken level/gear matching and the easily exploitable ganking mechanics make for a lot of "debate".
 
Good call, probably one of the better cases around.

For the unfamiliar, while the DS series comes with an offline option that prevents PvP invasions, it also prevents you from summoning your friends to play in co-op. So the co-op PvE comes at the price of unwanted PvP being a possibility. In fact, the way it works in DS3, co-op is even a magnet for PvP as invaders are sent in priority into worlds with multiple players. This also has an effect on the invading PvP players that complain about always being matched against 2 to 4 players. Add to that the fact that there's nothing preventing the gift of endgame gear to low level players or preventing a low level player to summon his high-level friends in co-op and the entire matchmaking is an utterly broken savage mess that causes no amount of rage. Another classic is the "gank squads" where 4 full-pvp built players group up together in co-op in order to gang up on the inevitable invaders that will be matched alone against them (additional invaders would also be matched over time, but the first one would need to survive long enough to enjoy the help). A reverse situation is with a guy summoning 3 friends as hostiles (there's a sign you can leave to be summoned as a hostile party, which makes for convenient dueling), while wearing an item that summons other players as "blue" helpers automatically. The second the Blue appears, he gets ganked by the hostiles without any help from the complicit host.

While it can be hilarious, the forced PvP if you want to PvE with your friends, the broken level/gear matching and the easily exploitable ganking mechanics make for a lot of "debate".

Dark Souls is definitely an interesting compare/contrast case.

IMHO the gear disparity in DS, even at its twinkiest, is still much easier to overcome than gear disparity in Elite. Dark Souls actually makes some effort to bring balance to "PvP player" vs "PvE player" dynamics. It has a significant head start in that everyone is out for combat anyway, so you don't need to account for e.g. traders and explorers. It also has a pretty hard cap on how much a random invader can set you back. Nobody's losing weeks or months of their time because they got invaded. The matchmaking in DS is imperfect, but it's significantly better than nothing at all when it comes to making those interactions consistently fun.

I would like to see "random" PvP encounters in Elite play out more like they do in Dark Souls. Yes, there are situations where people are ganking or min-maxing, but for the most part it's either fair or close enough that with skill and luck you can overcome the odds. I recently played all the way through Dark Souls 3 and 95% of the time, random invasions felt perfectly fair. I lost most of them of course, especially early on, but I always felt like that was chiefly due to my own lack of skill rather than an insurmountable equipment advantage. And it never resulted in progress being significantly set back.

The other really important thing that's different between a Dark Souls invasion and an Elite murderhobo interdiction is that no matter what your equipment, in DS you've always got a lot of options and time to exercise them. You can stand and fight, or retreat to the bonfire to minimize the pain of your inevitable defeat, or quickly summon allies by sign or covenant, or quietly hide, or sprint for the boss fog wall, or use a seed to turn the NPCs against the invader, etc.

In Elite, on the other hand, unless you also have a "PvP-worthy" build, your only realistic course of action when pursued by a murderhobo is to immediately run. There's no time to "feel out" an opponent to see if you can fight them, or to keep them busy while you wait for help to arrive. It's not particularly fun once you've escaped a few times and the thrill of being hunted wears off.
 
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What about GTA IV and V? It's an open world that you can play in single player or multi player.

In GTA Online you can set passive mode which means other players can't harm you directly (however, there are tricks whereby you can kill people with passive mode on indirectly. However, being in passive mode limits some of your activities.

The one i'm thinking of is Ark. There are seperate servers you can play on, some focused on PvP, some are PvE only, and some where PvP is allowed but not the focus.

Funny thing is, in Ark there is such a thing as PvE griefing. You can drop pillars in prime locations stopping other players from building there.

And yes, the community can be quite split and toxic, with PvEers calling PvPers murder hobos and PvPers calling PvEers carebears (or equivalent).
 
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Hi, I would like some help for some research I am doing. This is not meant to be a discussion about PvP/PvE, I would simply like to have some pointers.

Can someone think of games where the same kind of split between PvP and PvE in the community occurs (with the associated phenomena of griefing and “care bearing”)?

I am thinking of games, like Elite, not primarily designed to be competitive, but that are sandbox-y enough to allow different play styles (so for ex. not stuff like PUBG, or other games where the whole point is to kill each other).

Thanks.

The obvious answer would be World of Warcraft.
 
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