Stop killing immersion for the sake of Atari gameplay.

[[DOOK] Droogie]

Mah emershun!

Get VR, apparently, that's instant immersion. Done!

As someone who recently got into VR, i can say that it was. However, it wears off. While I would never go back to playing it in 2d, flying around in SC for hours hoping RNG goes your way and that HGE finally spawns is the same in 3d as it is in 2d.

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

I tried reading most of the thread, then stopped right on the first line...¨FFXV have a believable universe¨...I even corrected the typo.

That line right there proves there is a level zero...and yer on it right now. Ye make some half decent points, but yer delivery is just woeful and thats the sugar coated version.

Yer new here...the content of yer posts confirm that more than anything else and eve wasnt immersive at all...I played that fer 8 years and it was only ever about the pvp. Ones perception was wrapped around that and everything bent to accomodate pvp only...cool fer role play which elite isnt great at but role play is creating ones own immersion with the game merely backing it up. Honestly, thats about the only thing eve does better and its trumped on every other level by elites flight engine that gives ye the impression of actually flying a ship as opposed to just controlling it.

Its not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but yer delivery comes across like the apprentice telling the tradesman how to do his job. And yer perception of reality versus immersion leaves a lot to be desired...with yer opening statement, it borders on flat out delusional ^

English isnt my native, honestly, so sorry about that.
What I want to say that FFXV have integrity, and that it had dropped turn-based gameplay cause it wont fit the engine. ED have neither of that. FD just ignores the fact that gameplay decisions have to have cause-effect base for them which would fit the universe they create, or they lose immersion.
And I've never played EVE, I'm afraid I will never have enouth time for it. Its just that I belive that you cant be immersed, yet alone roleplay, in a universe you dont "buy".

 

[Old Duck]

Guys, remember the Golden Rule.

He / She who has all the gold paint jobs makes the rules?

 

[metascrawl]

He / She who has all the gold paint jobs makes the rules?

Spoiler

 

[verminstar]

English isnt my native, honestly, so sorry about that.
What I want to say that FFXV have integrity, and that it had dropped turn-based gameplay cause it wont fit the engine. ED have neither of that. FD just ignores the fact that gameplay decisions have to have cause-effect base for them which would fit the universe they create.
And I've never played EVE, I'm afraid I will never have enouth time for it. Its just that I belive that you cant be immersed, yet alone roleplay, in a universe you dont "buy".

And yet Ive been roleplaying a very solid role fer over two years and Im happy with the level of immersion...which contradicts what you believe is possible. So perhaps its just not possible...fer you. That makes it subjective, not objective.

But however, Im not gonna argue with ye...Im gonna go and actually play the game...I know hard to believe some of us do actually enjoy that activity from time to time ^

 

[BlackSpaceCowboy]

Atari gameplay is bad?
But I like it.

I used to love Defender on the Atari 5200.

I wish Elite would add a Defender mission where you have to rescue people from a base while you and the base are under attack. What made the game fun was that you were doing two things at once. You were always balancing fighting aliens and rescuing people.

 

[CMDR ANCALAGON]

Still waiting for the OP to elaborate on his advocation for two hour waits to load and unload cargo, and the ability to intergrate x rated videos into game play (purely for for his 'immersion', of course).

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

Still waiting for the OP to elaborate on his advocation for two hour waits to load and unload cargo, and the ability to intergrate x rated videos into game play (purely for for his 'immersion', of course).

Yeah, then add relativistic time and movement models.
Those are limitations of the same sort. To make this game playable.
Which limitations I'm against just mindlessly stretch playtime.

You probably missed it. And btw I'm ok with cargo load times. Like 2-5 minutes or so. Would make sence. Good idea actually.
Also ok with XXX videos and station hookers. Would add a lot of immersion to trucker gameplay. And game wont loose much of playerbase because of M rating as its pretty mature as it is. I dont know how it is not M already with slaves in it.

By mindless I mean that they have no belivable ground under them other than gameplay "needs".

 

[SentineI]

Why no autopilot? Because.

Because this is a game about *flying* a spaceship. You might as well ask for "auto-aim" in a First Person Shooter game...

Why no selective vector flight assistance? Because

Selective what???

And why all those and other things I can do on my home PC are unavailable in 3300 or whatever? JUST BECAUSE

Because it would leave you with nothing to DO in the game, if it was all automated.

Why no business/property opportunities? BECAUSE.

Because this is a game about flying a spaceship? Not a business/property simulator.

Why have I to scavenge for destroyed ship parts despite having about billion? JUST BECAUSE.

Because FDev wanted to give players with billions of credits something to do. If everything was purchasable with money, once you have billions you'd have everything, and therefore have no further reason to play the game.

I've dropped Elite a while ago, but returned

To be honest, I think you have two options:
1. Delete your commander, and start again from scratch. Having billions of credits has warped your view of the game.
or
2. Permanently drop Elite, as it's not the kind of space game you are looking for.

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

Because this is a game about *flying* a spaceship. You might as well ask for "auto-aim" in a First Person Shooter game...


Selective what???


Because it would leave you with nothing to DO in the game, if it was all automated.


Because this is a game about flying a spaceship? Not a business/property simulator.


Because FDev wanted to give players with billions of credits something to do. If everything was purchasable with money, once you have billions you'd have everything, and therefore have no further reason to play the game.


To be honest, I think you have two options:
1. Delete your commander, and start again from scratch. Having billions of credits has warped your view of the game.
or
2. Permanently drop Elite, as it's not the kind of space game you are looking for.

1.

Are you my mom and want to scold me for picky eating? I've paid for this game. Atm what I find most engaging and well-implemented in it is combat. Not jumping. And combat ships tend to have 15 LY jump range. So I want to have good and immersive alternative to mindless jumping in this game, for the times I really want it, as it is will be clearly less efficient than jumping myself. Comprende? For g-d sake, remove all this pathos around *PLAYING*. Let player decide.

2. I.e. flight assistance which compensate for only, for example, X rotation. I can make one with AHK, but it would be a cheat same as botting. But it the fact that this is not in the game is illogical.

3. So its all immersive when ship's computer after 300 years of developement have less customisation options than Nokia 3310, let alone some rooted Droid?

4. W/e. That is the one of the smallest complains I have.

5. Maybe then do it some logical and immersive way? Exactly way they produce such "activities" is what I'm disagreeing.

And no, I've thougth about it but I won't survive all that grind. Neither this would help.

 

[c00ky1970]

Guys, remember the Golden Rule.

Only a fool breaks the 6 second rule?

Is it me or Duck that wins? And what do we win? Is it someone’s stuff??

 

[Agony_Aunt]

What? Bashing on the old Atari? No way! Atari lost its way later on, but that was after it had been bought and sold a few times, it bascially became a label, but some of the old Atari games were classics and had great gameplay!

 

[Deleted member 38366]

IMHO alot of the "manual things" have to do with us still being treated as "just one lonely guy in a single Spaceship".

That works like a charm for new CMDRs owning only 1 or 2 Ships.

Problems arise, however, when CMDRs have progressed from worker bees (literally) hunting mini-jobs to being high-ranked Members of the Pilots Federation, Allied to & high-hanked with SuperPowers & countless Factions.
Such CMDRs are wealthy Tycoons, Billionaires, operate dozens of expensive and exclusive assets and actually employ NPCs.
They're makers, employers, Wing & Fleet Operators, Managers.. Not tiny worker bees anymore.

And yet - they're still expected to act like some, simply due to the fact that alternative Options do no exist. There is no scaling beyond that at this point.

So there you are, instead of giving orders to NPCs to perform tasks you personally don't enjoy and find dull - and still have to do them yourselves. Just like in old times, no alternatives.
IMHO that's the point where two worlds collide - and immersion keeps losing out badly, since things that made perfect sense in the Newbie Days at some point turn around - and just stop making any sense.

 

[Arry]

I've lived quite some time and learned some history to know that there are always were some causes for human and society behavior, rules, laws and so on, as well as reasons for which things are way they are. And I might say that unnatural and inefficient things do not survive for long unchanged.

And I see too little of cause and effect thing going in Elite. I mean I understand why all this mess happened, it is because FD tries to build immersive competitive casual hardcore space simulator game for consoles or something like while orienting to 1984 gameplay roots at that. A balance between those things can be achieved, but its a long way from being done. But that understanding doesn't help my immersion in any way whatsoever. Things are just too blatant and obvious.

I do understand that some limitations and simplifications such as the absence of relativistic time model or speed limitations are necessary. But some of the limitations are either placed due to unfinished game play or for the sake of *spirit* I do not really share, and frankly, sometimes are just look so devs are just lazy and/or incompetent and make up excuses.

I have no problem playing X3 immersed. Also, I might add that I was quite okay with no property runs in that game, despite the economy being its main part. Although I understand that even its economy, the core part, quite far from being realistic, it doesn't break immersion as hard as things in Elite do. Because this game doesn't look more realistic than society and economy in this game are.
And I have no way of playing Elite the same way. I was fully immersed for first two weeks or so, then it got shattered as the stupidity of some things became too obvious.

Why only two fire buttons? Because.
Why no autopilot? Because.
Why no selective vector flight assistance? Because
And why all those and other things I can do on my home PC are unavailable in 3300 or whatever? JUST BECAUSE. Do I have to imagine that things are more complicated than I see, even in areas they clearly cannot be such?
Why no business/property opportunities? BECAUSE.
Why an increase in investments does not increase your profit?? BECAUSE.
Why there are so many *Corporations* with no signs of stock markets? Because.
Material traders exchange rates?? Because.
Why have I to scavenge for destroyed ship parts despite having about billion? JUST BECAUSE.

I can go on and on. Its too obvious to me that places like Hutton Orbital cannot survive, or be profitable at least, without selective jump destination for multi-star systems. And whoever or whichever caused reasons for limitations like 2 fire triggers would be overthrown instantly IRL. This would work if a player was presented as part of the military, but that's not the case in this game, as military statutes quite often are stupid and go overboard.
And people with alternative rates for materials would INSTANTLY show up. And they would be simply purchasable.

You don't make a Super Mario game with open world and realistic graphics.
Imagine if dudes in FFXV would line up and attack in turns, with the level of graphics in this game. Would this work? No.
Imagine GTA without all those arcades and bowling and stuff. Would it be as good as it is? No. Those things help immersion, even more, they create immersion. Who cares if almost no one uses them more than once. They just have to be there.

I wish FD would give everything they do with the game a reality check FIRST, rather than taking only "difficulty" and "time to achieve" parameters into account. Also, they have to understand that difficulty in a computer game should NOT have man-hours as its main measure.

I've dropped Elite a while ago, but returned as some steps in the right direction are clearly being made. The game started to give hope. But I am far from playing immersed as things are now.

Looks like another, 'I am not happy with this game' rant; like you made the other day, regrading auto-pilots.

if it is that much of an issue to you, why not play another game?

 

[verminstar]

Still waiting for the OP to elaborate on his advocation for two hour waits to load and unload cargo, and the ability to intergrate x rated videos into game play (purely for for his 'immersion', of course).

Nah Im sorry, Im so laid back Im horizontal but I absolutely draw the line at xxx videos...I dont want ye guys knowing what I look like in me birthday suit ^

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

IMHO alot of the "manual things" have to do with us still being treated as "just one lonely guy in a single Spaceship".

That works like a charm for new CMDRs owning only 1 or 2 Ships.

Problems arise, however, when CMDRs have progressed from worker bees (literally) hunting mini-jobs to being high-ranked Members of the Pilots Federation, Allied to & high-hanked with SuperPowers & countless Factions.
Such CMDRs are wealthy Tycoons, Billionaires, operate dozens of expensive and exclusive assets and actually employ NPCs.
They're makers, employers, Wing & Fleet Operators, Managers.. Not tiny worker bees anymore.

And yet - they're still expected to act like some, simply due to the fact that alternative Options do no exist. There is no scaling beyond that at this point.

So there you are, instead of giving orders to NPCs to perform tasks you personally don't enjoy and find dull - and still have to do them yourselves. Just like in old times, no alternatives.
IMHO that's the point where two worlds collide - and immersion keeps losing out badly, since things that made perfect sense in the Newbie Days at some point turn around - and just stop making any sense.

The best solution to that would be to only allow us to own and fly one ship

 

[ArchEmperor]

.... and they took your money too!

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

IMHO alot of the "manual things" have to do with us still being treated as "just one lonely guy in a single Spaceship".

That works like a charm for new CMDRs owning only 1 or 2 Ships.

Problems arise, however, when CMDRs have progressed from worker bees (literally) hunting mini-jobs to being high-ranked Members of the Pilots Federation, Allied to & high-hanked with SuperPowers & countless Factions.
Such CMDRs are wealthy Tycoons, Billionaires, operate dozens of expensive and exclusive assets and actually employ NPCs.
They're makers, employers, Wing & Fleet Operators, Managers.. Not tiny worker bees anymore.

And yet - they're still expected to act like some, simply due to the fact that alternative Options do no exist. There is no scaling beyond that at this point.

So there you are, instead of giving orders to NPCs to perform tasks you personally don't enjoy and find dull - and still have to do them yourselves. Just like in old times, no alternatives.
IMHO that's the point where two worlds collide - and immersion keeps losing out badly, since things that made perfect sense in the Newbie Days at some point turn around - and just stop making any sense.

For me, magic was gone when I've got to Python stage at 3rd week of playing. No ways to conveniently use my belly plasma was outrageous in its inconsequence. And discontent just were increasing futher I went.

Looks like another, 'I am not happy with this game' rant; like you made the other day, regrading auto-pilots.

if it is that much of an issue to you, why not play another game?

Then try and point me to an alternative. No luck? Then you do understand that all what is left to me is to try and change things?

 

[Havvk]

*OP's opening post*

It's either this game, or Star Citizen. Take your pick. Personally I have both, but can't currently run SC as it's far superior in graphics right now. Otherwise I would be playing that instead of this game, as SC actually has many mechanics and gameplay features that Elite Dangerous may never have at all

 

[rotwhylr]

Sigh. Okay, time for some semi-true pseudo-history, but only because you made me do it ...

Because having people do these things on spaceships is important.

Long ago, well over a thousand years ago back in the 1950s/1960s on Earth, decisions were made. The scientists who built the first rockets wanted to send robotic probes into space instead of sending people. The people decided differently, believing that the physical presence of humans in space was important, and the human execution of tasks in space was also important, even if machines could do things more safely and more efficiently. The scientists and politicians struck a balance, in which the journey to space was pioneered by people and machines. As a result, ever since that day we as humans have assumed basic, easily automated roles in space, whether it was docking spacecraft to a space station, or building the first rocket fuel extraction plant on the earth's moon.

To borrow someone else's words from that time, we do these things not because they are easy, but because they are hard. Otherwise, you would simply sit at your computer, push a button to tell your automated space-faring robot fleet where to go and what to do, and wander away somewhere else for an hour or so before coming back, reviewing you profits, and with an empty, disconnected sigh, mumble "that's nice, I guess ... "

If the scientists had won, you would not need to worry about only two "fire" buttons. You also would not know the joy of canyon-racing on a world you and your friends and fellow explorers just discovered.