Crime does NOT fit the punishment

[Dbrn47]

And to remember to be in the correct ship when you do so.

Common sense might dictate that if you commit some offence in, say, an Anaconda in a system that doesn't have any large-pad facilities you might be able to travel to your destination, swap to a small ship and then go back and pay your fine like a good citizen but ED doesn't work like that.

In ED you need to take your big ship to some 3rd-party location and pay the fine there because your credits aren't any good unless you turned up in the correct ship. [wacky]

For that, they could have limited communications with stations while not docked, but I suppose that'd be too crazy of an idea that doesn't fit the game.

Yep, which is why I decided that this is a good time to go exploring far, far way from anyone else. I'm tired of constantly getting bounties in HAZRES sites from stray fire. I love ED, but I think I will wait this out in the black until this is fixed.

Why are you getting any bounties in a HAZRES? There shouldn't be any link to system authority there and thus impossible to incur any bounty...

 

[relayer]

I mean... it does sound bad, but if it's a simple matter of just turning around and paying the fine, other than the exorbitant payment required for not paying, it seems fine.

Have you ever back-burnered a traffic ticket? If you have, you'll know just how much exorbitant the resulting cascade of fines & deadlines, leading to a painful and expensive court appearance, can be. Blow off the court hearing & you're going to jail WITH another heaping dose of fines to go along with that.

I usually know where I'm going when I leave a station. If it's on a trade-loop, I know I can pay a fine accrued by some Hauler trying to squeeze in the slot or too-quick boosting without watching the traffic the next time I'm back to that station on the loop. If I'm going out to the Pleiades to hunt barnacles & brain trees, I know I will probably forget the fine until it turns into a real problem, and I curse, but I turn around and pay the fine.

I agree; OP should have just paid the fine.

 

[CMDR Percivus Keenblade]

Why are you getting any bounties in a HAZRES? There shouldn't be any link to system authority there and thus impossible to incur any bounty...

Theres no link to the cops so you cant CALL the cops to report a crime, victim of the offense still records(reports that is) the crime and crime bounty can still be slapped on the offender in hazres.

Anectode for the night: scanned a npc guy that was orbiting my face and scanning me who I was so sure was a pirate in hazres once and I immediately shot him after my scan was done. Appearantly he was a clean PP enforcer ship and immediately I received a bounty for assault (that little H-jump bounty of the old cp system).
Well, me and my wingmate was thinking what to do but there was this bunch of pirates that consisted of a juicy anaconda and a wing of others so we decided to shoot them while completely ignoring that PP guy. After we took that wing we checked what the PP guy whos freely trying to drill into my shields was doing and found out that somehow the clean PP guy managed to become wanted, possibly because he shot my clean wingmate or something with a stray shot. Suffice to say, we merrily popped him for a bounty reward of 300 or something credits. lol.

 

[Rafe Zetter]

For that, they could have limited communications with stations while not docked, but I suppose that'd be too crazy of an idea that doesn't fit the game.

When I pointed this out in a different thread around the same topic** I was told I was lying - that that wasn't a thing and you could pay your fine basically anywhere anyWAY you liked.

So you must be lying too Dbrn47.


OR..... because you've brought up the same point days later - it's an actual thing.

** I said that in 2018 we can sit at home and pay our fines for parking or other minor things (and even a few major ones) without having to schlep to wherever they happened, especially if it was in a different town.

Can you imagine how it would be if the millions of people every year who visited London by car and got fined for not paying the "congestion charge" - who then had to travel BACK TO LONDON IN THAT SAME CAR to pay it off.

You can be any other place on Earth and pay the fine, using that internet thingy in 2018.

But not in 3303. In 3303 galnet exists - thus the ability obviously exists for stations ansd factions to talk to each other across light years, updating themselves and each other on YOUR STATUS WHEREVER YOU GO, but you can't tap into that same network to pay a MINOR FINE OFF REMOTELY, not even in the same system.

But apparently I'm lying.

Edit - oh yeah you can call a station and ask to dock - but not for anything else at all.

 

[Franc Kaos]

...
The common thread here is simple - pay your fine.
....

No, the common thread here is that the constraints of PVP suicidewinders means the Punishment system is totally borked - hot modules? insanely stupid, esp the cleaning price - and let's face it if the Engineer grind wasn't a real thing you could just wait and buy a new module to replace the hot module once the ship was clean.

Only stand up citizens pay their fines not hardened criminals, they just get caught, and they certainly don't have to worry about changing the spark plugs on their hot cars (usually just throw some fake plates on to confuse the rozzers) and if they did want to pay their fines they could drive to any police station (in a clean car natch), give their name and pay the fine.

One solution... Once the ship is hot when you try to swap modules out throw a big red warning on the screen pointing out the ridiculous gameplay construct and an 'are you sure?' button (they do it anyway when doing pretty much anything in engineering) - click three times to put this module in storage, click three times to transfer a module, click three times to buy this... Sometimes I think Fdev have shares in the mouse industry.

o7 [alien]

 

[Marc_Hicks]

No, the common thread here is that the constraints of PVP suicidewinders means the Punishment system is totally borked - hot modules? insanely stupid, esp the cleaning price - and let's face it if the Engineer grind wasn't a real thing you could just wait and buy a new module to replace the hot module once the ship was clean.

Only stand up citizens pay their fines not hardened criminals, they just get caught, and they certainly don't have to worry about changing the spark plugs on their hot cars (usually just throw some fake plates on to confuse the rozzers) and if they did want to pay their fines they could drive to any police station (in a clean car natch), give their name and pay the fine.

One solution... Once the ship is hot when you try to swap modules out throw a big red warning on the screen pointing out the ridiculous gameplay construct and an 'are you sure?' button (they do it anyway when doing pretty much anything in engineering) - click three times to put this module in storage, click three times to transfer a module, click three times to buy this... Sometimes I think Fdev have shares in the mouse industry.

o7 [alien]

What "suicidewinders", you're talking a load of garbage. That was the scam under the *old* system. Getting killed in a clean Sidewinder ain't gonna remove any bounties on any of your other ships.

Quick translation for the OP's "wall of text". 'Giz us Easy Mode'.

Seriously, everyone complaining about how hard done by they are under the new C&P system should *really* go back & play Elite I to Elite III. It might give them just a modicum of perspective.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

Sorry to disappoint, but that ship has long since sailed. The current C&P system is exactly what the players requested, discussed and demanded - in discussions and debates that have raged on these forums for months.

The avalanche has already started...it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

Garbage.

FD are still changing this, with the feedback from the forum.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Sorry to disappoint but no its notwhat players requested , discussed and demanded. Far from it , the devs built a convoluted mess for C&P so far from what players wanted. Yes players wanted a punishment to fit the crime , what was delivered is a shambles.

Players are themselves heavily conflicted in what they want. Let's be honest here, most of players don't want any kind of punishment. They don't want rules. Thus real life like C&P will feel like mess, because that's how everything looks like to disappointed and frustrated people.

Learn to live with fact that C&P will stay and it will bite.

Garbage.

FD are still changing this, with the feedback from the forum.

Not in fundamental way. So far most of planned changes have gone in already. Only question is those other bounties besides murder.

 

[Franc Kaos]

What "suicidewinders", you're talking a load of garbage. That was the scam under the *old* system. Getting killed in a clean Sidewinder ain't gonna remove any bounties on any of your other ships.
...

So what is the point of the hot modules, if the ship is hot anyways? maybe make it so the modules can't be removed from a hot ship thereby not tripping up those unaware of the mechanic (cause let's face it, you only make that mistake once).

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

No, the common thread here is that the constraints of PVP suicidewinders means the Punishment system is totally borked - hot modules? insanely stupid, esp the cleaning price - and let's face it if the Engineer grind wasn't a real thing you could just wait and buy a new module to replace the hot module once the ship was clean.

But Engineers is a thing and that's why hot modules and hot ship system is just PERFECT. You can't get away from crime. Do your time. Or choose another ship.

Only stand up citizens pay their fines not hardened criminals, they just get caught, and they certainly don't have to worry about changing the spark plugs on their hot cars (usually just throw some fake plates on to confuse the rozzers) and if they did want to pay their fines they could drive to any police station (in a clean car natch), give their name and pay the fine.

What are you talking about? Hot ships/hot modules stay the same till you pay off bounties on them, it is that simple. Your 'criminal' status doesn't change anything.

Nothing in C&P is borked really, not in fundamental way.

So what is the point of the hot modules, if the ship is hot anyways? maybe make it so the modules can't be removed from a hot ship thereby not tripping up those unaware of the mechanic (cause let's face it, you only make that mistake once).

Point of hot modules is because modules are even important than ship itself sometimes. So criminal can't transfer modules to new hull and ignore consequences.

Also "modules can't be removed from hot ship" design was tried and commanders flipped their space tables, massively.

 

[Wyaston Hypatia]

It seems to me that FD have replaced a convoluted badly functioning C&P system with a totally different badly functioning C&P system. They are currently tying themselves up in knots to get it to work.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

So what is the point of the hot modules, if the ship is hot anyways? maybe make it so the modules can't be removed from a hot ship thereby not tripping up those unaware of the mechanic (cause let's face it, you only make that mistake once).

You mean how FD originally implemented this?

They changed it because they realised just how wrong that was.

 

[FatFreddysCoat]

It seems to me that FD have replaced a convoluted badly functioning C&P system with a totally different worse functioning C&P system. They are currently tying themselves up in knots to get it to work.

FTFY

 

[lenna]

Which would be fine if you can pay fines remotely from our ship, apparently we can get up to date galnet whilst at beagle point, and tele-presence works that way as well but paying a parking ticket nope no can do mate have to go find a shady fella in a dark ally or turn around and redock.... Utter nonsense much like the rest of the revised CnP system.

*shrug* Most fines are avoidable and most of the time they are issued with due cause.

The "loitering fine" can be (perhaps unreasonably) gained in some larger ships with relative ease during leaving from Coriolis/Orbis stations BUT it is easily avoidable.

Fines used to progress to bounties if you did not pay them before leaving the system, at least that is not the case now. The fact that you never paid the fine off before transferring modules out of the given ship is the main issue and the fault is entirely yours IMO.

I do not dispute that being able to pay fines from the ship would be nice BUT this has never been the case to date and it is far from unreasonable for fines/bounties to require you to be docked at an appropriate facility to pay them.

 

[Franc Kaos]

...
Point of hot modules is because modules are even important than ship itself sometimes. So criminal can't transfer modules to new hull and ignore consequences.
Also "modules can't be removed from hot ship" design was tried and commanders flipped their space tables, massively.

Wasn't aware of that, but it still really only punishes the players who don't have billions in the bank.

 

[lenna]

Wasn't aware of that, but it still really only punishes the players who don't have billions in the bank.

Perhaps, but as someone who is saving up for their Cutter and aims to run around with double their rebuy as a cash balance, the system is fair and reasonable.

Where PvP crimes are concerned, perhaps the differences in players bank balance needs to be taken into account to ensure "fairness". The problem there is then the billionaires will probably whine about being unfairly penalised.

 

[Mr_sukebe]

Another bleat thread.
You broke the law, deal with it.

 

[Auronio]

The first question is - does the current system work as intended?
Yes, it does.

Pay your fines which you can do with the faction which issued it.
Pay your bounties when notoriety is 0 at any Interstellar Factors.
Don't wanna pay, live with your hot ship.

The second question is whether players think it's a reasonable system.

My personal opinion is twofold.
Still I can't see the point why the weapon is punished instead of the person who used it.
Value of bounties is still relatively low for a murder. Don't know whether these are higher for murder of a CMDR but at least in PvE 5 to 10k for a murder is nothing for a well settled CMDR.

Anyway - it is what it is and apart from occasional travels to the next IF station it's fairly easy to deal with it.

Imho.

 

[lenna]

Value of bounties is still relatively low for a murder. Don't know whether these are higher for murder of a CMDR

According toe the release notes, the difference in ship value (inc. engineering factors) is taken into account - so a Cutter clubbing a clean sidewinder should incur a higher bounty than if the Cutter was targeting a FAS for example.

 

[Auronio]

According toe the release notes, the difference in ship value (inc. engineering factors) is taken into account - so a Cutter clubbing a clean sidewinder should incur a higher bounty than if the Cutter was targeting a FAS for example.

In PvP only or PvE as well?

Prior to 3.0 I was killed in my Conda by a 3x FDL/1x Clipper wing. Would that mean the one having done the final shot would not get money back cause my Conda is/was more expensive?