Crime does NOT fit the punishment

Nothing new. The critical part is what does FD define as "play"? Is it sitting at a station or does only moving a space ship count?

I still think just being logged in is sufficient, it's just badly implemented as only certain activities let your client "see" that the timer has run out. In the end it looks like you need to be active, though not actually true. So if in doubt, switch instance and have a look.

That said, it really would help if FD would clearly define their idea of "play" in this certain context.

The last part says it will decay when docked so i would have to assume that if your sitting in hanger or landing pad then it will decay but for it to update you need to high wake out (much like wanted status in old system). Playing the game is being logged in as a big chunk of elite is done on a landing pad.

This and normal play will have a decay rate , logged out and i guess it wont move at all. So no logging off for 7days while you wait on a cooldown.
 
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Which would be fine if you can pay fines remotely from our ship..

I actually agree with this though. For petty, non murder fines, I see nothing wrong with being able to scroll through your cockpit, and remotely pay off a fine. Anything above a petty friendly fire / speeding or whatnot, can be as is, but, for petty things, a fine and slapped wrist & ability to pay it off on the 'go' should be good. It still serves as a warning, and folks still think.... ooooh gosh, doh - won't do that again......

One can pay a parking ticket via mobile phone app these days, so it's not lore breaking :)
 
I mean... it does sound bad, but if it's a simple matter of just turning around and paying the fine, other than the exorbitant payment required for not paying, it seems fine. Could be that some adjusting is in order, but until then, just pay the fine. It's generally the same way in real life, unless you have a good lawyer to get you out of it for cheaper than the fine.

Understood, but hardly condusive to fun gameplay? Spending X minutes returning back to the exact spot you were in, just to pay off a poxy fine? So it's understandable why CMDRs might want to just leave it till alter when it's more convenient.

And this is even more so the case when people suggest flying off to other systems/stations/IFs etc just to do this? As if wasting time was some sort of valuable design approach to C&P?

Just imagine if there was an option on your comms panel to pay the fine :S
 
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From the patch notes if you sit in station your notoriety will decrease but at a reduced rate than that of actively playing and not docked. Although you will still have to jump out to actually decrease the level once it has lowered enough.

Not true. For some unknown reason notoriety counter didn't update during docking. But that's all. There's no specific rule other than being logged in for notoriety to tick down.
 
Not true. For some unknown reason notoriety counter didn't update during docking. But that's all. There's no specific rule other than being logged in for notoriety to tick down.

It says in support section it wont update till you high wake. Effectively meaning you have lost the notoriety but the system wont see it till you update (high waking).
 
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600K fee for a 600 credit fine is neither realistic nor immersive nor is it good gameplay. What's with the legacy stuff? I dint bother with a number of fines and bounties back then: Would I now have to pay off billions of credits?
 
This is still nonsense (or half the truth if you want so): Nothing in the patch notes about a 'reduced rate' compared to actively playing. But - what was your point at all?

As i said later its not necesarilly a patch note but frontier support is a legit source so take it as you will. As for my point? If you ask a question i will give an answer, you may not like it but thats not my issue.
 
The C&P system certainly does seem to be a mess that's far too easy to get caught out by if you're trying to stay clean.

On the other hand I murdered a clean CMDR at the weekend because he dropped into my Wing Assassination mission unannounced; Regardless of his intentions I wasn't going to take the risk and couldn't imagine a benevolent reason for him to drop into another CMDR's low-wake unannounced so I snuffed him out immediately before finishing the mission. Notoriety 1 was of no consequence, being back to zero by the time I got to an ISF broker, and since I murdered his tiny iCourier in my Corvette, I was expecting a couple of million credits fine as a 10% of my own rebuy fee. That didn't even happen - I just paid about 30K credits which was utterly trivialised by the 15M in wing assassination missions I had just handed in.

So in summary:

Notoriety is a royal PITA for CMDRs trying to stay clean yet falling foul of minor infraction rules
I can still murder with impunity, it would seem.
 
CONSEQUENCES! DAMNED BE THE CONSEQUENCES!

In response to the thread title, perhaps Fdev should tweak crime vs consequences to be more realistic, more in line with real world experinces and expectations. So, in the UK a drunk driver who kills a child spends a few years in prison with early release for good behaviour, in Russia the wrong type of political protest could land you in a worse jail situation than any crime committed in Canada, in the Philipines simply being accused of selling weed may end in execution... maybe the bubble should have a few hundred randomly genetated crime & punishment systems with radically variable notions of crime and punishment (open carring an assault rifle in Cubeois just fine, but get caught selling a mild contraband three times... Life in Prison!). Now that would be fun.
 
"Hello, Shady & Shady solicitors. Yes sir, we're a neutral and independent provider. Sorry sir, you want me to contact whom? Can I ask why? Oh, you've incurred an accidental bounty and are unable to return there to pay them 600CR for fear of having your ship blown up by local security? Certainly sir, I can have that amount wired over to them and I'm sure that will then right any moral wrongs you have incurred. Yes sir, it would be nice if you could contact them under amnesty, but then our out-of-the-way outpost is a handy stopping spot with a lovely view of, well, other stars. You're welcome sir. Call again soon."

Having had a similar thing happen to me, I share the OPs sentiment on this issue. It seems to me that this new system is targeted predominantly as preventative action against high volume player killing sprees, but incidentally inflicting unnecessary pain on low severity infractions.

I think something more in keeping with the universe FDev has created would be better. How could it work? Well, for starters there is no "interpol" in space. You have local systems (with a controlling minor faction), and across these you have the three main factions to which they are aligned (or independent).

Minor faction fines span the minor-faction controlled space only [ I'm thinking collisions / speeding etc.]. Your fine follows you in major-faction aligned space, but it is just a fine.

Non-controlling minor factions can only issue bounties - no attacks from local security: pirates and bounty hunters only. If you attack one via a mission you're only wanted by that faction (because they're small, and not protected by the major faction).

Outer-space infringements from combat cross all space aligned with the major factions and are "Wanted" bounties. Likewise, attacking a base owned by the aligned minor-faction.

Outside of these conditions, nothing carries over so if you do generate a local fine it doesn't become a galactic ball and chain. If you've been naughty in federal space, well go to the empire (after all, why should they care?). And yes, you can leave fines behind in independent space because after all, there're no galactic space police - just various factions looking out for themselves. If you want to risk going to independent/anarchy systems, you're game. If you stick to faction controlled systems, then you'll have the security there to help protect you.

PS All aligned systems should have an ability to pay off a fine.


On the 'big one' - i.e. PvP murder: the key 'penalty' in this game should be time. Money currently is the only penalty, and that doesn't scale. For a new player just ganked, that rebuy could equate to ten hours play. For the perpetrator, the bounty could equate to five minutes. A percentage of assets then on capture? Or an impound on the ship for a time period? In court normally fines scale so that mega-rich footballers pay a proportional fine or a community service time so that it isn't trivial. Voluntary impoundment of a ship by docking at an amnesty system to clear your time; or hunted in jurisdiction space otherwise?

Sure, this isn't fully fleshed but you've got to allow criminal activity to be carried out without making it a pain for the little folk. And more importantly for me I think, it's a galaxy in conflict so many factions would be more than happy to see some turmoil in an adjacent system.
 
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The C&P system certainly does seem to be a mess that's far too easy to get caught out by if you're trying to stay clean.

On the other hand I murdered a clean CMDR at the weekend because he dropped into my Wing Assassination mission unannounced; Regardless of his intentions I wasn't going to take the risk and couldn't imagine a benevolent reason for him to drop into another CMDR's low-wake unannounced so I snuffed him out immediately before finishing the mission. Notoriety 1 was of no consequence, being back to zero by the time I got to an ISF broker, and since I murdered his tiny iCourier in my Corvette, I was expecting a couple of million credits fine as a 10% of my own rebuy fee. That didn't even happen - I just paid about 30K credits which was utterly trivialised by the 15M in wing assassination missions I had just handed in.

So in summary:

Notoriety is a royal PITA for CMDRs trying to stay clean yet falling foul of minor infraction rules
I can still murder with impunity, it would seem.

This is what I don't get about C&P. You shouldn't get a bounty at all for that.

So Mr Courier dropped into a Weapons Fire Detected Threat 5 USS? That's on him. He either shouldn't have or should have left immediately with weapons stowed.
 
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Just returning, and trying to figure out the C&P system. The issue I ran into a couple days ago in Sol was accidently straffing a friendly in a USS, popped a 400cr fin for Mother of Gaia. I went to every station in Sol controlled by them or otherwise and cant find a place to pay it. My modules have that little C&P scales icon and I really dont know what is going to happen now.....any insight or thoughts? (as I said, still figuring it out and just a tad confused at the moment)
 
This is what I don't get about C&P. You shouldn't get a bounty at all for that.

So Mr Courier dropped into a Weapons Fire Detected Threat 5 USS? That's on him. He either shouldn't have or should have left immediately with weapons stowed.

It's no use asking us to respect NPC's as we do players by applying C&P equally: then having this nonsense.

What?! Is my sarcasm detector broken? Cause this is what I got from his post...

" I murdered a clean CMDR... Regardless of his intentions I wasn't going to take the risk and couldn't imagine a benevolent reason... so I snuffed him out immediately"

Of course that deserves a bounty, under any imaginable C&P system.
 
Just returning, and trying to figure out the C&P system. The issue I ran into a couple days ago in Sol was accidently straffing a friendly in a USS, popped a 400cr fin for Mother of Gaia. I went to every station in Sol controlled by them or otherwise and cant find a place to pay it. My modules have that little C&P scales icon and I really dont know what is going to happen now.....any insight or thoughts? (as I said, still figuring it out and just a tad confused at the moment)

Go to the nearest IF and pay your fine (but you should be able to pay off fines where you are...?)
Do not swap any modules out of your temporarily 'hot ship' until you clear your fines. For any reason. Just don't.
Try not to shoot people unintentionally.
 
Go to the nearest IF and pay your fine (but you should be able to pay off fines where you are...?)
Do not swap any modules out of your temporarily 'hot ship' until you clear your fines. For any reason. Just don't.
Try not to shoot people unintentionally.

Crap...ok. I was moving a shield generator in and out of the hot ship last night for engineering...hopefully that didnt screw me up. I'll focus on clearing the fine tonight then....what a pain in the , I landed on every single MoG station and couldnt pay those idiots.....teach me to operate in federal space. As for the strafing, i know and I am usually very good at not doing it, just one of those fog of war moments as I was taking on 3 condas.

Thanks for the info.
 
I think Gunner Bill didn't quite understand the post he was quoting. The bottom line of the quoted post (and why I still think it looks like a bug) was that the resulting bounty was much lower (as in "trivial") than expected.

No, I did understand the post.

My comment was that I think it's down to the Commander to take care where they are headed. They chose to take a peak at a firefight which to my mind forfeits their right to protection under C&P.

Just my opinion.

Yes the resultant expense does look like a bug also.
 
Crap...ok. I was moving a shield generator in and out of the hot ship last night for engineering...hopefully that didnt screw me up. I'll focus on clearing the fine tonight then....what a pain in the , I landed on every single MoG station and couldnt pay those idiots.....teach me to operate in federal space. As for the strafing, i know and I am usually very good at not doing it, just one of those fog of war moments as I was taking on 3 condas.

Thanks for the info.

You may now have to pay an extortionate hot module cleaning fee... maybe put it back before paying the fine to clean the original hot ship? Unfortunately, you may have now made another ship hot by putting a hot module into a previously clean ship. This seemingly harsh system is meant to prevent people from going on crime sprees and then cleaning their hot ship and bypassing any consequences by simply transferring all the modules to a new hull.

PS stay out of Fed scum space.
 
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You may now have to pay an extortionate hot module cleaning fee... maybe put it back before paying the fine to clean the original hot ship? Unfortunately, you may have now made another ship hot by putting a hot module into a previously clean ship. This seemingly harsh system is meant to prevent people from going on crime sprees and then cleaning their hot ship and bypassing any consequences bytransferringsimpky g all the modules to a new hull.

PS stay out of Fed scum space.

hmmm, ok. I put the hot module in storage and installed a different one to engineer it. I was looking to compare some stuff between the 2 shields. I guess I have some sorting out to do tonight, but I am pretty sure I at least havnt infected a clean ship with a hot module. Thanks again.
 
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